Silverado DDZ build

[hispls 5,000+ posts]

I don't know why you're so concerned about this.
DD themselves said it does not allow full travel in the motor. Guys aren't doing 180 DB with them under 30hz. They play them higher than that.

I am not getting 18" composite cones for them.

Please explain why the base is not good for lows. You're completely talking out your ass about that. The motor platform is not bad for lows in any way. The stock Z softparts are very stiff and have a high resonant frequency. Most people use them for SPL purposes and aren't concerned with the lows. There is literally nothing that makes the motor bad for low end response. That is the dumbest thing you have ever said

How many subs have you built and pulled specs from? How many critically over damped neo motors? When dealing with a motor with as much force as that DD neo motor how much of the TSP's do you think are dependent on the stiffness of the suspension? I think you'll find that you'll wind up with relatively high FS and low Qts regardless of what you use for suspension, barring of course using a hugely sub optimal coil or simply mass loading the cone to try to trick it into doing something for which it isn't designed you're not going to force it to be a RE XXX or LMS 5400 which would actually give you high excursion, low distortion, and good output at and below 30hz while also maintaining some semblance of bandwidth above that frequency.

What you're going to wind up with is a frequency response that looks like a two humped camel with a big peak at box tuning and another slightly smaller peak at cabin resonance. It'll sound absolutely awful trying to play actual music that involves any frequency in between.

What you'll have is a woofer that may play loud at tuning if you tune low but will roll off sharply on either side of a narrow bandwidth. That's why the "daily" DD boxes tune @ 40hz. If you read the DD website they tell you that they design the subs around working well in that box. After you're done trying to Frank'n'stein that sub to do something for which it was never intended, then put it in the wrong box you really defeated the whole purpose of using that platform to begin with.

I must say I'm enraged that you're not just selling/trading those motors to someone who will actually use them correctly. It just seems like such a waste.

 

[Massive spl]

Just buy some sundowns already! Hehehe

 

[wew lad 5,000+ posts]

How many subs have you built and pulled specs from? How many critically over damped neo motors? When dealing with a motor with as much force as that DD neo motor how much of the TSP's do you think are dependent on the stiffness of the suspension? I think you'll find that you'll wind up with relatively high FS and low Qts regardless of what you use for suspension, barring of course using a hugely sub optimal coil or simply mass loading the cone to try to trick it into doing something for which it isn't designed you're not going to force it to be a RE XXX or LMS 5400 which would actually give you high excursion, low distortion, and good output at and below 30hz while also maintaining some semblance of bandwidth above that frequency.
What you're going to wind up with is a frequency response that looks like a two humped camel with a big peak at box tuning and another slightly smaller peak at cabin resonance. It'll sound absolutely awful trying to play actual music that involves any frequency in between.

What you'll have is a woofer that may play loud at tuning if you tune low but will roll off sharply on either side of a narrow bandwidth. That's why the "daily" DD boxes tune @ 40hz. If you read the DD website they tell you that they design the subs around working well in that box. After you're done trying to Frank'n'stein that sub to do something for which it was never intended, then put it in the wrong box you really defeated the whole purpose of using that platform to begin with.

I must say I'm enraged that you're not just selling/trading those motors to someone who will actually use them correctly. It just seems like such a waste.

correct me if im wrong, but is this the same issue the fi btl n3 has? I mean, of course it will play low but I've heard it's nowhere near designed for it - the stock FS was what, 40+hz?

I've heard this a lot lately about high force neo motors so I'm interested to learn how it plays out in the real world.

 

[adulbrich 5,000+ posts]

How many subs have you built and pulled specs from? How many critically over damped neo motors? When dealing with a motor with as much force as that DD neo motor how much of the TSP's do you think are dependent on the stiffness of the suspension? I think you'll find that you'll wind up with relatively high FS and low Qts regardless of what you use for suspension, barring of course using a hugely sub optimal coil or simply mass loading the cone to try to trick it into doing something for which it isn't designed you're not going to force it to be a RE XXX or LMS 5400 which would actually give you high excursion, low distortion, and good output at and below 30hz while also maintaining some semblance of bandwidth above that frequency.
What you're going to wind up with is a frequency response that looks like a two humped camel with a big peak at box tuning and another slightly smaller peak at cabin resonance. It'll sound absolutely awful trying to play actual music that involves any frequency in between.

What you'll have is a woofer that may play loud at tuning if you tune low but will roll off sharply on either side of a narrow bandwidth. That's why the "daily" DD boxes tune @ 40hz. If you read the DD website they tell you that they design the subs around working well in that box. After you're done trying to Frank'n'stein that sub to do something for which it was never intended, then put it in the wrong box you really defeated the whole purpose of using that platform to begin with.

I must say I'm enraged that you're not just selling/trading those motors to someone who will actually use them correctly. It just seems like such a waste.

So because it's a strong motor, it can't play lows? There is literally nothing restricting the low end response.

Box is 17 cubes tuned to 27hz with 16 square inches of port area per cube. With a beefy coil and soft suspension, it will perform the way I want it to.

Just buy some sundowns already! Hehehe

Maybe later

correct me if im wrong, but is this the same issue the fi btl n3 has? I mean, of course it will play low but I've heard it's nowhere near designed for it - the stock FS was what, 40+hz?
I've heard this a lot lately about high force neo motors so I'm interested to learn how it plays out in the real world.

You seem to have heard a lot of false information lately.

I had custom N3's that crushed the lows in IB. Stock, I cant speak for them, but they have strong motors.

Neo does not mean you sacrifice low end resopnse. The stock soft parts on these subs are geared mainly towards SPL. Light parts, aluminum coils, and a stiff suspension will yield a high resonant frequency and poor low end response.

You can tailor soft parts for your application

 

[los33]

To be honest the main reason DD Z is recommended to be used at 40hz or higher is because the less cone travel will allow the sub to take more power which is why you see Z's taking 20k or 30k and not smoking.

The DD Z will infact crush the lows, but remembering that the lower you go the less power handling goes down.

Xmax becomes an issue in low end builds.

I do not know why its being said the soft parts is the issue on a custom built Z. Using a sundown or tantric or even if possible DC will allow for more xmax with better power handling.

Again the motor force is what kills low end frequency's on a stock Z because people have tried putting to much power and blow the sub by tearing cones and overworking the coils.

Sent from my ZTE ZMax using Tapatalk

 

[hispls 5,000+ posts]

correct me if im wrong, but is this the same issue the fi btl n3 has? I mean, of course it will play low but I've heard it's nowhere near designed for it - the stock FS was what, 40+hz?
I've heard this a lot lately about high force neo motors so I'm interested to learn how it plays out in the real world.

Mainly what you get is a very low Qts which is pretty set by the magnet. Lumping in more mass or usuing unusually soft suspension can bring down Fs but it generally leads to an awful response when you actually try to make a box. I've used the N2 BTL and IMO that wasn't over the top strong since it uses a pretty wide gap and not that much neo as compared with DD-Z, Shocker, or even Warden. I didn't get a chance to do much critical listening and only did a couple purp tests before I sold them... and I can't find the file where I saved TS parameters.

So because it's a strong motor, it can't play lows? There is literally nothing restricting the low end response.
Box is 17 cubes tuned to 27hz with 16 square inches of port area per cube. With a beefy coil and soft suspension, it will perform the way I want it to.

I had custom N3's that crushed the lows in IB. Stock, I cant speak for them, but they have strong motors.

Neo does not mean you sacrifice low end resopnse. The stock soft parts on these subs are geared mainly towards SPL. Light parts, aluminum coils, and a stiff suspension will yield a high resonant frequency and poor low end response.

You can tailor soft parts for your application

If what you want is something that'll be really loud at 27hz and roll off before 40hz I'm sure you're on the right track and will be thrilled if you ever see those parts from Tantric.

I don't suppose you can post any RTA graphs of your response with those N3's?

Again the motor force is what kills low end frequency's on a stock Z because people have tried putting to much power and blow the sub by tearing cones and overworking the coils.

Sent from my ZTE ZMax using Tapatalk

What?

IMO anybody putting Frankenstein parts into a DD-Z should be publicly thrown down a flight of stairs. It is DD's flagship model and they have put an awful lot of R&D into it.

What OP is trying to do is put a John Deer transmission into a Ferrari so he can do tractor pulling with it.

 

[wew lad 5,000+ posts]

What OP is trying to do is put a John Deer transmission into a Ferrari so he can do tractor pulling with it.

 

[LosIsATool 5,000+ posts]

Funny how people are crushing lows with stock DD Zs and even winning SQ comps with them. Don't be idiots

 

[Louisiana_CRX 5,000+ posts]

everything is taking shape...

 

[adulbrich 5,000+ posts]

To be honest the main reason DD Z is recommended to be used at 40hz or higher is because the less cone travel will allow the sub to take more power which is why you see Z's taking 20k or 30k and not smoking.
The DD Z will infact crush the lows, but remembering that the lower you go the less power handling goes down.

Xmax becomes an issue in low end builds.

I do not know why its being said the soft parts is the issue on a custom built Z. Using a sundown or tantric or even if possible DC will allow for more xmax with better power handling.

Again the motor force is what kills low end frequency's on a stock Z because people have tried putting to much power and blow the sub by tearing cones and overworking the coils.

Sent from my ZTE ZMax using Tapatalk

Motor force does NOT decrease low frequency response

Mainly what you get is a very low Qts which is pretty set by the magnet. Lumping in more mass or usuing unusually soft suspension can bring down Fs but it generally leads to an awful response when you actually try to make a box. I've used the N2 BTL and IMO that wasn't over the top strong since it uses a pretty wide gap and not that much neo as compared with DD-Z, Shocker, or even Warden. I didn't get a chance to do much critical listening and only did a couple purp tests before I sold them... and I can't find the file where I saved TS parameters.



If what you want is something that'll be really loud at 27hz and roll off before 40hz I'm sure you're on the right track and will be thrilled if you ever see those parts from Tantric.

I don't suppose you can post any RTA graphs of your response with those N3's?

What?

IMO anybody putting Frankenstein parts into a DD-Z should be publicly thrown down a flight of stairs. It is DD's flagship model and they have put an awful lot of R&D into it.

What OP is trying to do is put a John Deer transmission into a Ferrari so he can do tractor pulling with it.

Loud and flat between 27 and 40 would be great for low demos.

No, I don't have RTA graphs for the N3's. I don't have the equipment for that, and don't really care. They sounded great.

Yes there's a lot of R&D into them, but not for my application.

wut

Funny how people are crushing lows with stock DD Zs and even winning SQ comps with them. Don't be idiots

People are idiots. That's caraudio.com.

 

[los33]

Motor force does NOT decrease low frequency response


Loud and flat between 27 and 40 would be great for low demos.

No, I don't have RTA graphs for the N3's. I don't have the equipment for that, and don't really care. They sounded great.

Yes there's a lot of R&D into them, but not for my application.

wut

People are idiots. That's caraudio.com.

Where did i say it decreases low frequency response?

Sent from my ZTE ZMax using Tapatalk

 

[Massive spl]

A

Where did i say it decreases low frequency response?
Sent from my ZTE ZMax using Tapatalk

To be honest the main reason DD Z is recommended to be used at 40hz or higher is because the less cone travel will allow the sub to take more power which is why you see Z's taking 20k or 30k and not smoking.
The DD Z will infact crush the lows, but remembering that the lower you go the less power handling goes down.

Xmax becomes an issue in low end builds.

I do not know why its being said the soft parts is the issue on a custom built Z. Using a sundown or tantric or even if possible DC will allow for more xmax with better power handling.

Again the motor force is what kills low end frequency's on a stock Z because people have tried putting to much power and blow the sub by tearing cones and overworking the coils.

Sent from my ZTE ZMax using Tapatalk

In bold

 

[MrFoca]

Man. This is a dogpile lol.

 

[los33]

Ohhh no i didnt mean it decreases frequency.. The motor force at low frequencies on a stock setup would blow a cone from over extending aka maxing xmax..

Sent from my ZTE ZMax using Tapatalk

 

[Massive spl]

I hope adulbrich does 150db at 12hz and shuts everyone up. This is car audio. We build,we test,we learn and do it all over again. Let the young one do his thang and learn.