How many OLD SCHOOL audio fanatics are on this forum?What do I mean by"oldschool"?

[plushDJ 10+ year member]

Personally I loved the old soundstream stuff. The Ref. series of amps was killer and their USA and SPL series of subs kicked ass too!!

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

With the low xmax and low power handling of most old school stuff, having a **** load of drivers was probably the only way to move air, back in the day that is.
Every guy Ive talked to from the old school era, says they still sounded good doing it too!

Stick to topics you know. This isn't one of them.

 

[spnkysprky 10+ year member]

lol i hate it when people see installs with like 40 speakers in a car and think itll sound good. how can it ? the imaging must be awful and super peaky

Thats the point Im trying to make...yes,nowadays if you see a vehicle with a large amount of speakers in them,they sound like crap...as when it all started back in the day,it sounded great.Your talking about people that had money to run every speaker at 8 ohms...now that makes for a cleaner sound.Im not bashing the average joe...In fact i have a basic system in one of my vehicles...in fact I have always had a basic system...but I always had 1 particular vehicle that was fro show/competition.Yes it was big,but when we competed they judged Sound quality,the cleaness of install and originality....SPL was the LAST thing...in fact,that was a totally different division.I would put my vehicle that had 18 mids and highs and 4 10 inch subs against anyone anytime and I know for a fact that it would demolish them in sound quality.You could open the doors of my vehicle and hear Madonna(dont laugh) like a prayer or Chicago 6 blocks away and hear the words as madonna herself was singing.So dont tell me you cant have good sound quality with multiple speakers.Its all about balance and the correct voltage/gain.Think about it..with that many speakers I could have easily scored above 141db,but I didnt because I chose to adjust the system to SQ not SPL.

And as for you 02parkave...how old are you really...come on...your better than me?you sound like my 7year old.Grow up and be a little more open minded.This forum is for car audio discussion...not for bashing.To each his own.Everyone has different taste.

 

[spnkysprky 10+ year member]

Personally I loved the old soundstream stuff. The Ref. series of amps was killer and their USA and SPL series of subs kicked ass too!!

I have to agree,soundstream were phenominal amps...lots of power...and clean sound.not one bit of struggle for that power.

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

Thats the point Im trying to make...yes,nowadays if you see a vehicle with a large amount of speakers in them,they sound like crap...as when it all started back in the day,it sounded great.Your talking about people that had money to run every speaker at 8 ohms...now that makes for a cleaner sound.Im not bashing the average joe...In fact i have a basic system in one of my vehicles...in fact I have always had a basic system...but I always had 1 particular vehicle that was fro show/competition.Yes it was big,but when we competed they judged Sound quality,the cleaness of install and originality....SPL was the LAST thing...in fact,that was a totally different division.I would put my vehicle that had 18 mids and highs and 4 10 inch subs against anyone anytime and I know for a fact that it would demolish them in sound quality.You could open the doors of my vehicle and hear Madonna(dont laugh) like a prayer or Chicago 6 blocks away and hear the words as madonna herself was singing.So dont tell me you cant have good sound quality with multiple speakers.Its all about balance and the correct voltage/gain.Think about it..with that many speakers I could have easily scored above 141db,but I didnt because I chose to adjust the system to SQ not SPL.

And as for you 02parkave...how old are you really...come on...your better than me?you sound like my 7year old.Grow up and be a little more open minded.This forum is for car audio discussion...not for bashing.To each his own.Everyone has different taste.

What rock did you crawl out from under? I find it hard to believe you've competed in any serious SQ sanctioned body, and dont even seem to fathom the notions of system staging or imaging.
"Your talking about people that had money to run every speaker at 8 ohms...now that makes for a cleaner sound."

So to build your "SQ" system all you need to do is run 8ohm speakers? Amazing. Im truely underwhelmed by your knowledge, congratulations.

Fail.

 

[spnkysprky 10+ year member]

What rock did you crawl out from under? I find it hard to believe you've competed in any serious SQ sanctioned body, and dont even seem to fathom the notions of system staging or imaging.
"Your talking about people that had money to run every speaker at 8 ohms...now that makes for a cleaner sound."

So to build your "SQ" system all you need to do is run 8ohm speakers? Amazing. Im truely underwhelmed by your knowledge, congratulations.

Fail.

I dont mean to say thats why they sounded better...the point I was trying to make was the amps had enough power to supply an 8 ohm load back then...now you need to run at 2 ohms or less to get the same power...and have you ever heard components ran at 8 ohms and compared to them running at 2 ohms??Your right,I dont know the science behind it,but I can say that 2 ohm is crap unless you are running subs..Im guessing the amp doesnt work as hard...I dont know.All I know is i havent ran across ANY sound system regardless of brand that sounded great at 2 ohms or less.Ive traveled around the US to many comps and was sponsered by a small audio company called "Audio Art"...the point is,we are getti ng off topic..we can argue about this all day...I know what Ive heard and not you or anyone else will change my mind.Maybe that can be another topic and someone can find scientific data to argue our case.Like I said,I just assumed the amps THD levels drop at lower impedance levels...it even tells you that on the ratings on most amp...so go figure

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

I dont mean to say thats why they sounded better...the point I was trying to make was the amps had enough power to supply an 8 ohm load back then...now you need to run at 2 ohms or less to get the same power...and have you ever heard components ran at 8 ohms and compared to them running at 2 ohms??Your right,I dont know the science behind it,but I can say that 2 ohm is crap unless you are running subs..Im guessing the amp doesnt work as hard...I dont know.All I know is i havent ran across ANY sound system regardless of brand that sounded great at 2 ohms or less.Ive traveled around the US to many comps and was sponsered by a small audio company called "Audio Art"...the point is,we are getti ng off topic..we can argue about this all day...I know what Ive heard and not you or anyone else will change my mind.Maybe that can be another topic and someone can find scientific data to argue our case.Like I said,I just assumed the amps THD levels drop at lower impedance levels...it even tells you that on the ratings on most amp...so go figure

Okay, so you are going the playing dense route, I'll play along for a little while. Let me quote what I said for you, again.

So to build your "SQ" system all you need to do is run 8ohm speakers?

Id like you to tell me exactly where, in my statement, I said lowering impedance would not lower distortion levels. And Id like it in 50 words or less, not another 5 paragraph response all crammed into one. Take your time, read my statement as many times as you need. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif
Next, wtf does this mean:

"the point I was trying to make was the amps had enough power to supply an 8 ohm load back then...now you need to run at 2 ohms or less to get the same power"

Am I to believe you are suggesting amplifiers are no longer as powerful as they once were? Have we been drinking?

You being a SQ competitor and all, I just have to ask... when I mention the words "staging" or "imaging" to you, do you just stare back at the screen blankly? Im not dissing your system, if you like an 18 speaker front stage, more power to you. But even someone with the most basic of knowledge in acoustics and speaker interaction should understand how that simply is not a "SQ" setup. When's the last time you heard of ANY serious, and successful, SQ competitor unning such a ridiculous amount of speakers in their front stage? How many tweeters did you say you have again? Let me guess, on the dash, and on the doors, the a-pillars, maybe some down by floor... did I miss a spot? What processor are you using to do the time alignment on all those drivers? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crazy.gif.c13912c32de98515d3142759a824dae7.gif

 

[Rich B 5,000+ posts]

Oh God,I remember Kraco and sparkomatic LOL!They ******...I can say that I took a kraco amp and did what we used to call a negative feedback...you take the output of the amp of one channel and refeed it to the input of the other channel and I can say it put out some major power...basically I was feeding the input with higher voltage...now they have head units that put out higher voltages...anyway,I DID have a place to vote for the really old school...it was on the bottom of the four...it says anything below 1980..really oldschool

Well ****, I missed it!

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif

 

[spnkysprky 10+ year member]

Okay, so you are going the playing dense route, I'll play along for a little while. Let me quote what I said for you, again.
Id like you to tell me exactly where, in my statement, I said lowering impedance would not lower distortion levels. And Id like it in 50 words or less, not another 5 paragraph response all crammed into one. Take your time, read my statement as many times as you need. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif

Next, wtf does this mean:

"the point I was trying to make was the amps had enough power to supply an 8 ohm load back then...now you need to run at 2 ohms or less to get the same power"

Am I to believe you are suggesting amplifiers are no longer as powerful as they once were? Have we been drinking?

You being a SQ competitor and all, I just have to ask... when I mention the words "staging" or "imaging" to you, do you just stare back at the screen blankly? Im not dissing your system, if you like an 18 speaker front stage, more power to you. But even someone with the most basic of knowledge in acoustics and speaker interaction should understand how that simply is not a "SQ" setup. When's the last time you heard of ANY serious, and successful, SQ competitor unning such a ridiculous amount of speakers in their front stage? How many tweeters did you say you have again? Let me guess, on the dash, and on the doors, the a-pillars, maybe some down by floor... did I miss a spot? What processor are you using to do the time alignment on all those drivers? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crazy.gif.c13912c32de98515d3142759a824dae7.gif

Ok,we can stop here...As far as staging...these were installed in a suv.Fronts were 6.5 seperates and 5.25 coaxil in the doors custom fab to fit.The lower dash housed 4" midrange set at 120hz(I think) and the rear doors had 6.5 coaxil and 5.25 seperates custom fitted in door.closer to the rear cargo area was 2 8 inch woofers ran at 70-80hz and the rear cargo area housed 4-10 inch ran in sealed box at .75 cuft airspace in a diamond config...

Hows that for "staging"

Oh NO I am not implying amps are not as powerful today....you gotta admit though...its hard to find any amp today thats rated high watts at high ohms.Most dont show there tru power until 4 ohms or less.

 

[spnkysprky 10+ year member]

Oh yeah,I kinda cheated...I counted the tweeters as speakers when I mentioned 18 mids and highs...including the ones in the coaxil //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif My bad....well,technically they are speakers to...even in a coaxil set up?

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

Ok,we can stop here...As far as staging...these were installed in a suv.Fronts were 6.5 seperates and 5.25 coaxil in the doors custom fab to fit.The lower dash housed 4" midrange set at 120hz(I think) and the rear doors had 6.5 coaxil and 5.25 seperates custom fitted in door.closer to the rear cargo area was 2 8 inch woofers ran at 70-80hz and the rear cargo area housed 4-10 inch ran in sealed box at .75 cuft airspace in a diamond config...Hows that for "staging"

Oh NO I am not implying amps are not as powerful today....you gotta admit though...its hard to find any amp today thats rated high watts at high ohms.Most dont show there tru power until 4 ohms or less.

How's that for staging? Is this some sort of joke? *looks around for the hidden cameras* Dude that's the recipe for cramming as many speakers on vertical surfaces as possible. Let me ask you this.... what amkes you think your system required 4" speakers, 5.25" speakers, 6.5" speakers and 8" speakers? Anything less would have left a hole in the sound? All us silly people running 2-way and 3-way systems have it all wrong? We need at least like 5 mids and 3 tweeters before we can cover the whole audible frequency spectrum proficiently? Forget that you have overlapping outputs from multiple speakers, in different locations, or the fact you dont even seem to understand the words "time alignment" when I say them to you, or that you have rear midbass... that plays a 10hz passband... or that you have rear tweeters, multiples of them (lol)... nope forget all that technical mumbo jumbo. You are running those speakers at 8ohms (presumably) so its "SQ".
I ask if you know what staging and/or imaging is, and you reply with a setup that would be a staging and imaging nightmare. And you're smug about it as if you've shown me up. LOL? Your reply only seems to reinforce the statement I made earlier, you seem to lack the knowledge of some of the very fundamentals of "SQ". But then, alot of people today seem to think its only about 'hitting all the notes' and being heard for blocks. Ignorance is bliss right? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[spnkysprky 10+ year member]

You may be right...as far as the seperates ..I had all the on electronic crossovers each set at different audio frequencies.Thats just how we did things then.I do know I have 11 trophies..so I must have done something right.It was fun then and people like you make it miserable for everyone else.Not everyone is all knowing and everyone has different opinions what sound good.All I know is I never had a customer return that wasnt happy with my install...Ive even had my company logo win a couple of local competitions.They may not have been magazine worthy,But everyone was happy.Anyway...anyone remember the TUBE amps?LOL

Oh and yes Im familar with all the mumbo jumbo.I guess if you are playing Cannon In D then you only need 3 speakers sub mid high.I do understand timing,but it never was that drastic in my vehicle...It actually blended nicely for having that many speakers.I actually do know what you mean.

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

Again if you are happy with your system, more power to ya. But, you are simply portraying it as something its not, a SQ competition vehicle. You say you have 11 trophies, from where? In SQ events? Id really like to talk to any SQ judge that would award a SQ trophy to a guy running 8+ tweeters (4 of which are rear mounted).

The more I read your words, the more I think you are either lying thru your teeth, or had someone do your installs for you (or your competition was weaksauce beyond belief). You say you have 8's that only run from 70hz to 80hz, that makes no sense... that's a fraction of one actave... nobody does that. Any well versed SQ guy would know better. Next, you have 4" 'midrange' that plays down to 120hz? And yet you also run 5.25's and 6.5's up front, and yet you "had all the on electronic crossovers each set at different audio frequencies"? So what, the 4's played the midbass while your 5.25's and 6.5's played midrange? Im seeing a trend here, and it stinks.

Even suggesting you could split 5.25" coxials, 6.5" seperates, 4" mids and 8" (whatevers) into ANY logical frequency system just further proves you are talking way over your head here.

Im not trying to be a dick, nor am I trying to make this 'miserable' for anyone, but Im not gonna let you feed these guys BS. Happy customers or not. Have a nice day.

 

[W8 a minute 10+ year member]

I was helping build systems to compete in "C.A.N", "T.O.W" and the Alpine Nationals......these were the organizations which later merged and became iasca
"Car Audio Nationals" "Thunder On Wheels"

As far as cass decks go my favorite that I owned was the Kenwood KRC999 and KRC999II both bad*ss units with a $1200.00 price tag.....//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif

I had a 999. Sweet. Led's that flashed for everything and the little slide out drawer with the keypad. Coolest thing ever. I still search eBay for one every once in a while.

I had that head unit, Kenwood 5.25 and 6x9 coaxials, 2 Alphalab (MTX) 10 inch clear poly subs, and Alphasonik active crossover and 2 Alphasonik PMA-2075 and 1 PMA-2150 amplifiers. All in a V8, 4 speed, Ford Maverick. I remember mounting the 5.25 in the kicks because the doors were a ***** and my friends laughed at me. We all loved the sound of that system but we had no clue as to why. LOL

My system before that consisted of a Pioneer supertuner III, an underdash booster/EQ, wired to some Pioneer 6905 6x9's

Awesome. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/cool.gif.3bcaf8f141236c00f8044d07150e34f7.gif

 

[spnkysprky 10+ year member]

AUDIOHOLIC

No,I will admit I had some pro's come and fine tune everything for me.I mostly did the build(enclosures,door panels,custom fabs)I wanted to go alot more simple,but the guys at Audio art insisted.I owned my own shop doing moderate installations.My focus was designing enclosures to accomodate the correct airspace for each speaker.My talent mostly was making almost anything fit (per customers request)without losing needed airspace...as much as possible.I built,tune enclosures.I custom fabbed door panel with fiberglass,built fiberglass enclosures.Yes,I can fine tune a simple system,but when it came to extreme audio,I had someone qulified to do so.I have no problems admitting that...But I do have the knowlegde of the basic electrical aspect of it...especially since Im a licensed electrician.The company sponsoring me at the time...of course brought in there own guys...I was advertising their product.They lost me with the multiple audio control equalizers(the knob style) and the digital signal processor and mutiple audicontrol xovers...I dont know what kind of SQ judging they do know,but then it wasnt judged all high tech.you were doing great to hear clear crisp voice coming out of the car along with massive bass.I NEVER SAID I WON COMPETITION for SQ...you said that.I won mostly SPL,originality,and clarity...thats all...there were no set rules for that at the time.I have no reason to lie...the point is,I know their are some people who can relate to what I am saying.THEY JUST DONT MAKE THEM LIKE THEY USED TO.Thats my opinion.Thats all.Also,the coaxils were not set on idependant crossovers...only the plain woofers.Trust me,I was lost when they put this mike in the SUV and they were looking at these displays on a computer screen...totally lost.If you know,thats great for you.Lets just drop this and I will snap a pic of all my trophies to show you.The only major know comp I placed in was USAC once..the rest I will admit were regional(local)soundoffs.Its not the best,but I am proud.Though I had help,I put alot of work into it as well.Peace and lets just listen to music already.Maybe I can get some advice from you on my current set up in a dodge quad cab 07 model.