plushDJ
10+ year member
CarAudio.com Elite
Personally I loved the old soundstream stuff. The Ref. series of amps was killer and their USA and SPL series of subs kicked ass too!!
Stick to topics you know. This isn't one of them.With the low xmax and low power handling of most old school stuff, having a **** load of drivers was probably the only way to move air, back in the day that is.
Every guy Ive talked to from the old school era, says they still sounded good doing it too!
lol i hate it when people see installs with like 40 speakers in a car and think itll sound good. how can it ? the imaging must be awful and super peaky
I have to agree,soundstream were phenominal amps...lots of power...and clean sound.not one bit of struggle for that power.Personally I loved the old soundstream stuff. The Ref. series of amps was killer and their USA and SPL series of subs kicked ass too!!
What rock did you crawl out from under? I find it hard to believe you've competed in any serious SQ sanctioned body, and dont even seem to fathom the notions of system staging or imaging.Thats the point Im trying to make...yes,nowadays if you see a vehicle with a large amount of speakers in them,they sound like crap...as when it all started back in the day,it sounded great.Your talking about people that had money to run every speaker at 8 ohms...now that makes for a cleaner sound.Im not bashing the average joe...In fact i have a basic system in one of my vehicles...in fact I have always had a basic system...but I always had 1 particular vehicle that was fro show/competition.Yes it was big,but when we competed they judged Sound quality,the cleaness of install and originality....SPL was the LAST thing...in fact,that was a totally different division.I would put my vehicle that had 18 mids and highs and 4 10 inch subs against anyone anytime and I know for a fact that it would demolish them in sound quality.You could open the doors of my vehicle and hear Madonna(dont laugh) like a prayer or Chicago 6 blocks away and hear the words as madonna herself was singing.So dont tell me you cant have good sound quality with multiple speakers.Its all about balance and the correct voltage/gain.Think about it..with that many speakers I could have easily scored above 141db,but I didnt because I chose to adjust the system to SQ not SPL.
And as for you 02parkave...how old are you really...come on...your better than me?you sound like my 7year old.Grow up and be a little more open minded.This forum is for car audio discussion...not for bashing.To each his own.Everyone has different taste.
I dont mean to say thats why they sounded better...the point I was trying to make was the amps had enough power to supply an 8 ohm load back then...now you need to run at 2 ohms or less to get the same power...and have you ever heard components ran at 8 ohms and compared to them running at 2 ohms??Your right,I dont know the science behind it,but I can say that 2 ohm is crap unless you are running subs..Im guessing the amp doesnt work as hard...I dont know.All I know is i havent ran across ANY sound system regardless of brand that sounded great at 2 ohms or less.Ive traveled around the US to many comps and was sponsered by a small audio company called "Audio Art"...the point is,we are getti ng off topic..we can argue about this all day...I know what Ive heard and not you or anyone else will change my mind.Maybe that can be another topic and someone can find scientific data to argue our case.Like I said,I just assumed the amps THD levels drop at lower impedance levels...it even tells you that on the ratings on most amp...so go figureWhat rock did you crawl out from under? I find it hard to believe you've competed in any serious SQ sanctioned body, and dont even seem to fathom the notions of system staging or imaging.
"Your talking about people that had money to run every speaker at 8 ohms...now that makes for a cleaner sound."
So to build your "SQ" system all you need to do is run 8ohm speakers? Amazing. Im truely underwhelmed by your knowledge, congratulations.
Fail.
Okay, so you are going the playing dense route, I'll play along for a little while. Let me quote what I said for you, again.I dont mean to say thats why they sounded better...the point I was trying to make was the amps had enough power to supply an 8 ohm load back then...now you need to run at 2 ohms or less to get the same power...and have you ever heard components ran at 8 ohms and compared to them running at 2 ohms??Your right,I dont know the science behind it,but I can say that 2 ohm is crap unless you are running subs..Im guessing the amp doesnt work as hard...I dont know.All I know is i havent ran across ANY sound system regardless of brand that sounded great at 2 ohms or less.Ive traveled around the US to many comps and was sponsered by a small audio company called "Audio Art"...the point is,we are getti ng off topic..we can argue about this all day...I know what Ive heard and not you or anyone else will change my mind.Maybe that can be another topic and someone can find scientific data to argue our case.Like I said,I just assumed the amps THD levels drop at lower impedance levels...it even tells you that on the ratings on most amp...so go figure
Id like you to tell me exactly where, in my statement, I said lowering impedance would not lower distortion levels. And Id like it in 50 words or less, not another 5 paragraph response all crammed into one. Take your time, read my statement as many times as you need. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gifSo to build your "SQ" system all you need to do is run 8ohm speakers?
Oh God,I remember Kraco and sparkomatic LOL!They ******...I can say that I took a kraco amp and did what we used to call a negative feedback...you take the output of the amp of one channel and refeed it to the input of the other channel and I can say it put out some major power...basically I was feeding the input with higher voltage...now they have head units that put out higher voltages...anyway,I DID have a place to vote for the really old school...it was on the bottom of the four...it says anything below 1980..really oldschool
Ok,we can stop here...As far as staging...these were installed in a suv.Fronts were 6.5 seperates and 5.25 coaxil in the doors custom fab to fit.The lower dash housed 4" midrange set at 120hz(I think) and the rear doors had 6.5 coaxil and 5.25 seperates custom fitted in door.closer to the rear cargo area was 2 8 inch woofers ran at 70-80hz and the rear cargo area housed 4-10 inch ran in sealed box at .75 cuft airspace in a diamond config...Okay, so you are going the playing dense route, I'll play along for a little while. Let me quote what I said for you, again.
Id like you to tell me exactly where, in my statement, I said lowering impedance would not lower distortion levels. And Id like it in 50 words or less, not another 5 paragraph response all crammed into one. Take your time, read my statement as many times as you need. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif
Next, wtf does this mean:
"the point I was trying to make was the amps had enough power to supply an 8 ohm load back then...now you need to run at 2 ohms or less to get the same power"
Am I to believe you are suggesting amplifiers are no longer as powerful as they once were? Have we been drinking?
You being a SQ competitor and all, I just have to ask... when I mention the words "staging" or "imaging" to you, do you just stare back at the screen blankly? Im not dissing your system, if you like an 18 speaker front stage, more power to you. But even someone with the most basic of knowledge in acoustics and speaker interaction should understand how that simply is not a "SQ" setup. When's the last time you heard of ANY serious, and successful, SQ competitor unning such a ridiculous amount of speakers in their front stage? How many tweeters did you say you have again? Let me guess, on the dash, and on the doors, the a-pillars, maybe some down by floor... did I miss a spot? What processor are you using to do the time alignment on all those drivers? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crazy.gif.c13912c32de98515d3142759a824dae7.gif
How's that for staging? Is this some sort of joke? *looks around for the hidden cameras* Dude that's the recipe for cramming as many speakers on vertical surfaces as possible. Let me ask you this.... what amkes you think your system required 4" speakers, 5.25" speakers, 6.5" speakers and 8" speakers? Anything less would have left a hole in the sound? All us silly people running 2-way and 3-way systems have it all wrong? We need at least like 5 mids and 3 tweeters before we can cover the whole audible frequency spectrum proficiently? Forget that you have overlapping outputs from multiple speakers, in different locations, or the fact you dont even seem to understand the words "time alignment" when I say them to you, or that you have rear midbass... that plays a 10hz passband... or that you have rear tweeters, multiples of them (lol)... nope forget all that technical mumbo jumbo. You are running those speakers at 8ohms (presumably) so its "SQ".Ok,we can stop here...As far as staging...these were installed in a suv.Fronts were 6.5 seperates and 5.25 coaxil in the doors custom fab to fit.The lower dash housed 4" midrange set at 120hz(I think) and the rear doors had 6.5 coaxil and 5.25 seperates custom fitted in door.closer to the rear cargo area was 2 8 inch woofers ran at 70-80hz and the rear cargo area housed 4-10 inch ran in sealed box at .75 cuft airspace in a diamond config...Hows that for "staging"
Oh NO I am not implying amps are not as powerful today....you gotta admit though...its hard to find any amp today thats rated high watts at high ohms.Most dont show there tru power until 4 ohms or less.
I had a 999. Sweet. Led's that flashed for everything and the little slide out drawer with the keypad. Coolest thing ever. I still search eBay for one every once in a while.I was helping build systems to compete in "C.A.N", "T.O.W" and the Alpine Nationals......these were the organizations which later merged and became iasca
"Car Audio Nationals" "Thunder On Wheels"
As far as cass decks go my favorite that I owned was the Kenwood KRC999 and KRC999II both bad*ss units with a $1200.00 price tag.....//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif