Do I really need an H/O alternator for 2 12" Orion hcca 2500 watt rms speakers?

[ChaseinBass]

I just couldn't resist lol

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[tymoto21 10+ year member]

A 8k at 1ohm is not a 8k at 2ohm.

what he is saying is 8k at 1 ohm is 89vac, 4k at 2 ohm is 89vac, 2k at 4 ohm is 89vac

idk what he is getting at with it will always pull 700a even at 4ohms though.

8000w / 14v / .8 =714a

2000w / 14v / .8 = 178a

 

[wew lad 5,000+ posts]

higher ohm rating = less heatLess heat = better efficiency

The lower the ohm rating the dirtier the amperage flow gets so it pulls more current to compensate for the loss of amperage in the current.

The better efficiency (higher ohm) has less amperage loss making no need to pull more the needed.

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id like to see you explain this

the fuck is dirty amperage flow

Lol what? No. 8k at whatever ohm will need roughly 800 amps of current

4K at whatever ohm will need roughly 400 amps of current.

do you even think about what you're saying

you're right but not really considering theres no context

OP will be much better off adding a HO alt but he has a lot of battery reserve that might sustain him well enough with good wiring. doesnt mean it wont make the alternator work harder, because it will

 

[los33]

id like to see you explain this
the fuck is dirty amperage flow

do you even think about what you're saying

you're right but not really considering theres no context

OP will be much better off adding a HO alt but he has a lot of battery reserve that might sustain him well enough with good wiring. doesnt mean it wont make the alternator work harder, because it will

Un-efficient/unstable current/unmeasurable amperage/major amperage drop

I can say many more related word combinations to express a current of amperage with the least resistance allowing amperage to drop from the source.

Makes it easier for people to understand.

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[LosIsATool 5,000+ posts]

id like to see you explain this
the fuck is dirty amperage flow

do you even think about what you're saying

you're right but not really considering theres no context

OP will be much better off adding a HO alt but he has a lot of battery reserve that might sustain him well enough with good wiring. doesnt mean it wont make the alternator work harder, because it will

Did you read what I was replying to? Ball sack.

On a lighter note. Papermaker is getting ran off of DIYMA

 

[JonM]

Ok so, the lower the ohm the more inefficient the power draw will be? I thought the more ohms the more resistance and the harder it is to draw power.

 

[tymoto21 10+ year member]

You are thinking about it backwards

The higher the ohm the easier it is to push

You just won't be able to push as hard

If you can get 100vac from your amp the power will be determined by your resistance because volt times current equals power

Or volt squared decided by resistance

Disclaimer: I've been drinking

 

[honkyg 10+ year member]

JL Audio has their amps as so. Any impedance, same wattage. Which I don't like.

i like the r.i.p.s. system with the tightly regulated power supply, 1000watts constant between 1.5 and 4 ohm. think about wiring a dual 3ohm, 1000w sub down to 1.5 and figure in imp rise, if your rise doesnt go over 4 ohm, your driver will be seeing 1000w at all times.

Thanks man, this helps out a lot! I had no idea what the draw was. My idea was to play the stereo off the batteries. I thought I'd be good since I don't turn it up loud for long periods of time. I was going to use the voltmeter as a gauge to know when to shut the subs off(below 11.5), and let the batteries charge back up. The batteries combined have 210 amp hours and a total of 10,000 amps with an additional 90 AH from the alt for a total of 310 AH. Why wont this work for running a 5k system? (I've got an audiopipe 2k amp for mids and highs which is really 100watts x4)

youre welcome.

fyi, amp hours (ah) is the figure battery manufacturers rate their battery capacities at with it's applied rated voltage before it is fully discharged, not the same as amperage that is supplied on a needed basis by the alternator. a 90 ah battery will supply 1 ampere for 90 hours, 2 amperes for 45, 3 amperes for 30, 4 for 22.5 hours, and so on... im sure you can do the math and figure out how much battery reserve you need. another thing you need to consider is that 12v rated batteries will not discharge at or supply 14.4 volts. when your voltage drops to 12.5, it means your taxing the hell out of your alternator for current it can't give you so much that the batteries are pulling up the slack. going below 12.5, and that's when your ******* the life out of your batts.

when i had a 98 mustang v6, i only had at most 150 amps in total current draw for my amplifiers, but the alternator just couldnt do it without things going wacky and dimming, even with the big three X2 in 2 gauge. got a powermaster 200a alt and never dipped below 14.2v (holding at 2500rpm, mind you) after that with just a standard vented lead/acid 70ah batt up front. i used to rock out all the time in my garage late at night working on it for 3-4 hours at a time without any problems.

since then, ive always went overboard with supplying current.

what he is saying is 8k at 1 ohm is 89vac, 4k at 2 ohm is 89vac, 2k at 4 ohm is 89vac

idk what he is getting at with it will always pull 700a even at 4ohms though.

8000w / 14v / .8 =714a

2000w / 14v / .8 = 178a

not really, but it does fit in to the equation after the fact. i was referring to the volt-amperes the toroid supplies and what current it needs to operate properly.

higher ohm rating = less heatLess heat = better efficiency

The lower the ohm rating the dirtier the amperage flow gets so it pulls more current to compensate for the loss of amperage in the current.

The better efficiency (higher ohm) has less amperage loss making no need to pull more the needed.

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i think los33 is on the same track i am, i confused some people, including myself after reading my own replies, lol. my explanation had to do more with the rail voltage (which is constant) supplied by the toroidal transformer in the amplifier and what it needs on tap to operate at any given load without taking into account loss or gain in efficiency due to heat or lack thereof.

look at it this way for example; stetsom and soundigital... both build 1 and 2 ohm versions of the same size amplifier, and if we go through and check the factory stated current draw for both versions of each amp, you will see there is a very minimal differences.

On a lighter note. Papermaker is getting ran off of DIYMA

i like this^ , but why am i not surprised?

 

[LosIsATool 5,000+ posts]

The RIPs amps stuff suffer from rise.

 

[Boomin_tahoe 5,000+ posts]

Did you read what I was replying to? Ball sack.On a lighter note. Papermaker is getting ran off of DIYMA

Good.

 

[honkyg 10+ year member]

The RIPs amps stuff suffer from rise.

how so?

 

[wew lad 5,000+ posts]

Un-efficient/unstable current/unmeasurable amperage/major amperage drop
I can say many more related word combinations to express a current of amperage with the least resistance allowing amperage to drop from the source.

Makes it easier for people to understand.

Sent from my Z970 using Tapatalk

i still have no idea what you're actually saying

maybe that an amp run out of specifications becomes unstable? yeah

maybe that the current flow from the power source becomes unstable? no...not really..

the only thing i can gather that makes sense is that low input voltages require higher current draw which is true but there's weird implications in your quote about the lower load on the output of the amplifier being the reason for higher current draws which isnt true. an amplifier designed to make power at 9000 ohms will draw similar current as one at 0.001 ohm provided they're designed appropriately and use the same input voltages. im not going to get into the mitigations that need to be in place for .0001 or 9000 ohms but you get the point

 

[LosIsATool 5,000+ posts]

how so?

There is a write from Manville somewhere. I thought the same thing when I had them.

 

[honkyg 10+ year member]

There is a write from Manville somewhere. I thought the same thing when I had them.

got it. i just read his write up and replies on diyma in the r.i.p.s. thread which explains in pretty good detail, not so much about the correlation of imp. rise, but how the rips system behaves,... im inclined to think that may have been a great marketing campaign when the slash/v1 series came out as even some of the most knowledgeable audiophiles were possibly mislead.

good info in there, but now that i read it, it seems it was a rather well thought out misnomer for some to assume as we did, and im sure they sold the hell out of them based on that alone. kinda surprised to learn the slash series was thought up by the same man who designed the ppi art series and dm series using the same, yet revamped, power supply modulation tech the dm series did.

one thing thats really sticking with me though, is that typical voltage source amplifier power supplies where rail voltage is fixed are designed for an optimum load, and higher load impedances just result in it producing less power, not the inverse, whereas the rips system adjusts rail voltage in 4 steps depending on the initial non-reactive load it detects upon powering up.

now if only we could have an amplifier that could actually produce constant power at all frequencies with a reactive load,... id prob sell a testicle to own it.

 

[LosIsATool 5,000+ posts]

got it. i just read his write up and replies on diyma in the r.i.p.s. thread which explains in pretty good detail, not so much about the correlation of imp. rise, but how the rips system behaves,... im inclined to think that may have been a great marketing campaign when the slash/v1 series came out as even some of the most knowledgeable audiophiles were possibly mislead.
good info in there, but now that i read it, it seems it was a rather well thought out misnomer for some to assume as we did, and im sure they sold the hell out of them based on that alone. kinda surprised to learn the slash series was thought up by the same man who designed the ppi art series and dm series using the same, yet revamped, power supply modulation tech the dm series did.

one thing thats really sticking with me though, is that typical voltage source amplifier power supplies where rail voltage is fixed are designed for an optimum load, and higher load impedances just result in it producing less power, not the inverse, whereas the rips system adjusts rail voltage in 4 steps depending on the initial non-reactive load it detects upon powering up.

now if only we could have an amplifier that could actually produce constant power at all frequencies with a reactive load,... id prob sell a testicle to own it.

We need rise for music to sound natural. It's a part of dynamics.