Blew out a JL 12w7 first day of purchase with a JL 1000/1 amp...how did this happen?

When you hook up that bass controller to the slash amp specifically, it actually goes from 0 to +15db. I spoke to a knowledgeable JL tech support representative and he told me that there should be no problem having that specific bass knob all the way up and having the volume loud on the head unit. However, the caveat here was that he said the gain should be set based on the head unit being 3/4 of the way up. Then, the head unit volume should stay below 3/4 of the max and the remote bass control could be cranked up all the way without having to worry about blowing the system.
So when I get the replacement sub, I should make sure the installer sets the gain by ear DMM or o-scope with the head unit volume at 3/4 of the max? Where does the 54.7 number come in that the JL tech support rep said the gain should be tuned to?
Of course you can have the bass knob cranked if you dont max out your volume control.

Yes, set gains with volume at 3/4 of max. Also have the bass knob at the max you'll ever set it to (Id throw it away if I was you).

The JL tech was probably referring to a voltage reading you should hit when using your DMM to set the gain.

 
I love bumpin them square waves. Sounds like you need some l7s brah. you can only play the loudest with square waves on square subs //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/fyi.gif.9f1f679348da7204ce960cfc74bca8e0.gif

 
Of course you can have the bass knob cranked if you dont max out your volume control.
Yes, set gains with volume at 3/4 of max. Also have the bass knob at the max you'll ever set it to (Id throw it away if I was you).

The JL tech was probably referring to a voltage reading you should hit when using your DMM to set the gain.
I just spoke to the audio shop and they told me that my bass knob does not function like a normal bass knob. It does not change the gain at all. They said that they tuned the gain on the amp with the bass knob all the way up. So...I am still confused how I caused clipping to the amp and how the sub was blown....it seems like they did what everyone has been suggesting. Any ideas?

 
i just spoke to the audio shop and they told me that my bass knob does not function like a normal bass knob. It does not change the gain at all. They said that they tuned the gain on the amp with the bass knob all the way up. So...i am still confused how i caused clipping to the amp and how the sub was blown....it seems like they did what everyone has been suggesting. Any ideas?
take the bass knob out. Wtf is wrong with you?

 
I just spoke to the audio shop and they told me that my bass knob does not function like a normal bass knob. It does not change the gain at all. They said that they tuned the gain on the amp with the bass knob all the way up. So...I am still confused how I caused clipping to the amp and how the sub was blown....it seems like they did what everyone has been suggesting. Any ideas?
Correct, it does not adjust the gain. I mentioned that in my previous reply.

Im also stumped how the shop is accusing you of damaging the sub. If they are using the 'it wasnt broken in properly' routine, they either dont know what they are talking about, or they are trying to shaft you.

 
Correct, it does not adjust the gain. I mentioned that in my previous reply.
Im also stumped how the shop is accusing you of damaging the sub. If they are using the 'it wasnt broken in properly' routine, they either dont know what they are talking about, or they are trying to shaft you.
this

 
Im also stumped how the shop is accusing you of damaging the sub. If they are using the 'it wasnt broken in properly' routine, they either dont know what they are talking about, or they are trying to shaft you.
I had multiple people from that shop tell me independently that I blew the sub from playing it too loud too soon. They said that I should have waited at least 24 hours before turning it up loud so that it could break in properly. I think they honestly believe that.

How are you stumped that they are accusing me of damaging the sub. Is it possible that I played the music too loud too soon or caused the amp to clip and am therefore responsible for it? They keep saying that it was my fault for playing it too loud. However, I did not turn up the volume louder than 3/4 of the head unit max. I thought this was a high quality sub that could be played at high volumes. I read lots of reviews online of people saying that 12w7's almost never blow out, especially when matched with the JL 1000/1 amp. I don't want to worry when I get the next set that they are going to blow out again while I am keeping the volume below 3/4 of the head unit max.

If I smelled that smell right away though in the car on the drive home..they must have been cooked when running them at the shop. We played a bass test CD through them that hit all the frequencies and some hip hop and electronica with sustained, intricate basslines. Could this type of music at high volume (but not more than 3/4 max of h/u) and with the bass knob all the way up cause the subs to blow that quickly?

If I remove the bass control knob, what else should I do with the replacement subs once they come in to ensure that I do not blow them again?

 
they ****ed up and made you think that you ****ed up. if they set up the amp with the bass knob all the way up then there is no way you could mess it up. That bull **** with breaking in subs is retarded. Ask them exactly why you need to baby a sub for 24 hours to break it in? What really happens during this process? I really would like to know their ideas.

 
I fail to see how playing a subwoofer loud for a few minutes without break in time could possibly make it blow in the fashion you stated... The shop ****ed up, they're blaming you to cover their asses, tell them so. Go back in there with facts (that have been suggested multiple times in this thread), and show them you know what you're talking about. They'll back down and stop telling you its your fault.

 
I had multiple people from that shop tell me independently that I blew the sub from playing it too loud too soon. They said that I should have waited at least 24 hours before turning it up loud so that it could break in properly. I think they honestly believe that.
Well then you talked to multiple independent people who dont know what the hell they were talking about. Ask one of them to explain, specifically, how playing the sub without a 'break-in' period would damage the amplifier. Then report back to us what they say, we are always up for a few good laughs around here.

All the break-in period does for a speaker is loosen up its soft parts (spiders and surround). As the new speaker moves, this motion softens the new-from-being-made suspension parts, until they reach their nominal compliance. So until the soft parts loosen up, the speaker will actually move slightly less than it would once it's 'broken in'. Less cone motion will mean a more stable load on the amp. A more stable load will make the amp's job easier, not harder. There is absolutely no aspect of breaking in a subwoofer, or not breaking it in, that would place the amplifier in any danger what so ever. Playing the sub loud before its broken in will not cause an amplifier to clip, period. If all these 'professionals' at this shop dont understand this, they are lacking some pretty basic understanding of how a speaker and amplifier operate and interact with each other.

If/when you ask, they will probably give you the usual reply... "its like a car engine, if you rev it up high before its broken in, it will be damaged". First of all, a speaker is not a car engine, so do not accept that analogy as any form of an answer to what happened to your stereo. Second, even if avoiding a break-in period caused any damage, that damage would be limited to the speaker itself (torn spider due to moving too far before it had loosened up to allow such movement), it would not damage an amplifier.

Not allowing for a break-in period causing damage to the stereo is a very common misconception. But, Id expect a professional installer at a shop to know better. So again, either these clowns are ignorant to their own field of work, or they know better but are trying to shaft you in the form of blaming you for their own installation error(s). Its just that simple.

 
If I remove the bass control knob, what else should I do with the replacement subs once they come in to ensure that I do not blow them again?
A bass booster like your bass knob boosts specific frequencies. This boosting effect means the amp will clip easier at those freqs. So to guard against damage caused by this clipping, the installer/operator must then turn the gain on the amp artificially low. The end result is a system who will only have the potential to reach maximum output at the freqs the bass booster is boosting. The rest of the freqs ill be unaffected by the bass boost effect, and with the gain turned low to avoid clipping at the boosted freqs, the unboosted freqs will actually receive less than ideal power. That's why most knowledgeable people will tell you to avoid this type of bass kob (only use the type I described earlier in the thread, a gain attenuator).

Its hard to say what to do to avoid this problem next time, when we still haven't identified positively what caused the initial failure. I have my suspicions, and the shop has their (incorrect) suspicions, but the reality is none of us know for sure. Im not their to troubleshoot the problem, so all I can do is give my best guess based on the info available. I will say however, as I said before, that you running high-level signal outputs and an LOC, makes me nervous you have a severe signal problem. Your local shop has already shown a lack of understanding of more basic concepts, and they have about 600 reasons to pass the blame off on you rather than accept it themselves, I would not trust them to properly troubleshoot this problem. If the shop continues to hassle you like this, you can contact JL Audio directly and discuss the issue (stereo problem AND problem with their local JL dealer). A few months ago someone here had a similar story of a local shop (JL dealer) dicking over a customer. He came here to ask advice, we pointed out the flaws in the story the shop gave him. He contacted JL, JL got ahold of the shop and told them their dealer license would be pulled if they did not resolve the issue. Guess what, the shop then admitted it had made the mistake, and resolved the issue. If the shop foes not give you the satisfaction you deserve, tell them you will be contacting JL to discuss the matter. The threat alone might get them off their self righteous asses.

 
Thanks everyone and audioholic especially for those lengthy summary replies. Just a couple things to point out...

1. They did not claim that I placed the amplifier in any danger or damaged the amplifier in any way. They were only talking about the sub. They think that I blew the voice coils on the sub because I played the volume too loud before the sub had time to break in properly. They never mentioned anything about amplifier damage.

2. They originally tried hooking it up with an LOC but the system was not putting out much at all so they got rid of the LOC and hooked the high-level signal inputs straight into the amp. The LOC is no longer part of the setup.

I talked with JL on the phone today and they said that I should be OK with the bass knob as long as I tune the gain while the knob is all the way up and the head unit is at 3/4 volume. If I tune the gain in this manner, then I do not need to turn the gain artificially low, right? There is also a "Q" setting that goes along with the bass boost that looks like it tells what frequencies to boost over. If the "Q" is turned down low, then the boost applies to most or all of the frequencies rather than a narrow range of frequencies. JL recommended tuning the gain with their 9 step method using a DMM to get a reading of 54.7 volts (since the sub is 3 ohms). So I would put the head unit at 3/4 volume, have the bass boost all the way up, turn the "Q" setting down, and then look for a reading of 54.7 volts for the gain. He said as long as I do that and turn on the infrasonic filter (since I have the high output ported box), I should not have to worry about blowing out the amp or the voice coils. I am going to set the rest of the settings on the amp according to page 8 of this link: http://mobile.jlaudio.com/pdfs/557.pdf ....and btw, the steps they recommend to set the gain are on page 14 of that .pdf

The JL rep said the same thing that you all are saying though...that break in is a myth and that as long as I kept the volume below 3/4 of the head unit, the sub should not have had an issue if the gain and amp settings were correct. He said he would bet that the shop set the settings on the amp wrong. Ironically, I looked in my amp box today and saw that the instruction manual was still sealed. Who knows if the shop tried to adjust the gain by ear or what they did...but they are definitely at fault. I am considering asking for a refund on some of the labor since I am without a sub for a few weeks and since they are blaming me for this problem. They are the ones that have caused me an inconvenience. I definitely won't be going back there again.

 
he still didn't understand to take the knob out......you are going to be the guy who blew 2 w7s in one day lol use the bass and sub settings on the deck to turn the sub down and up. well if it happens again we can say...well we told ya. an the "high output box" can you, the OP tell us what it does that a regular good ported box doesn't? well let me rephrase, what makes the box cost more then the sub? the cool red carpet??

 
Thanks everyone and audioholic especially for those lengthy summary replies. Just a couple things to point out...1. They did not claim that I placed the amplifier in any danger or damaged the amplifier in any way. They were only talking about the sub. They think that I blew the voice coils on the sub because I played the volume too loud before the sub had time to break in properly. They never mentioned anything about amplifier damage.

2. They originally tried hooking it up with an LOC but the system was not putting out much at all so they got rid of the LOC and hooked the high-level signal inputs straight into the amp. The LOC is no longer part of the setup.

I talked with JL on the phone today and they said that I should be OK with the bass knob as long as I tune the gain while the knob is all the way up and the head unit is at 3/4 volume. If I tune the gain in this manner, then I do not need to turn the gain artificially low, right? There is also a "Q" setting that goes along with the bass boost that looks like it tells what frequencies to boost over. If the "Q" is turned down low, then the boost applies to most or all of the frequencies rather than a narrow range of frequencies. JL recommended tuning the gain with their 9 step method using a DMM to get a reading of 54.7 volts (since the sub is 3 ohms). So I would put the head unit at 3/4 volume, have the bass boost all the way up, turn the "Q" setting down, and then look for a reading of 54.7 volts for the gain. He said as long as I do that and turn on the infrasonic filter (since I have the high output ported box), I should not have to worry about blowing out the amp or the voice coils. I am going to set the rest of the settings on the amp according to page 8 of this link: http://mobile.jlaudio.com/pdfs/557.pdf ....and btw, the steps they recommend to set the gain are on page 14 of that .pdf

The JL rep said the same thing that you all are saying though...that break in is a myth and that as long as I kept the volume below 3/4 of the head unit, the sub should not have had an issue if the gain and amp settings were correct. He said he would bet that the shop set the settings on the amp wrong. Ironically, I looked in my amp box today and saw that the instruction manual was still sealed. Who knows if the shop tried to adjust the gain by ear or what they did...but they are definitely at fault. I am considering asking for a refund on some of the labor since I am without a sub for a few weeks and since they are blaming me for this problem. They are the ones that have caused me an inconvenience. I definitely won't be going back there again.
Glad to help. We'll get you straightened out, just be patient.

When setting your gains, even using JL's method, yes you will have to set the gains artificially low. But, if the Q adjustment (a common adjustment in parametric EQ's) really allows you to boost all freqs within the passband the crossover is passing, then using the knob will be fine. The bass knob is a bass booster. All it does, basically, is increase the signal voltage of the freqs within the band of frequencies defined by the Q factor. Turning the volume knob up on your deck does the same thing, increases signal voltage, but to all freqs. So turning up the bass knob means you are simply turning up the 'volume' artificially early on the bass freqs (again, as defined by the Q factor). In order for this artificially high signal voltage in the bass freqs, the gains must be adjusted artificially low so as to not send the amp into clipping in those bass freqs when trying to turn the deck's volume up high enough to max the output on the rest of your stereo.

In essence, what the +6db boost to your bass freqs will do is create a 6db difference in output between the bass, and the rest of the freqs your stereo plays. Yes, you can use the bass knob if you set the gains as described by JL (deck at 3/4 volume, bass knob all the way up). But all you are really doing when you set your gains is limiting the output of the rest of your system, to allow this 6db difference to occur. So, you aren't really "boosting" the bass, you are cutting all the rest of the freqs to make it appear as though the bass is being boosted. There is simply no way to get around this flaw inherent in a bass boosting style bass controller knob. I recommend using gain attenuator knobs, when the amp in question has one available. But when the bass controller is one like yours, a true bass booster, I recommend leaving it out of the system. JL's method for setting the gains makes using the knob safe, but it still doesn't make it a good idea imo.

My mistake about the amp damage. I read somewhere in this thread that amp damage was being discussed, and thought that was the claim the shop was making. The artificially stiff suspension in a pre-broken-in sub *can* lead to coil damage due to having less cone/coil motion (so less cooling effect), but this is unlikely if the gains were set properly by the shop.

After thinking about this further, and reading this latest reply, there is no doubt the shop set the gains incorrectly, almost definitely leading to the failure. Two things you've said tell me this is true. 1) You said the shop set the gains before the system was running. IIRC you said the installer said he hoped it was set right because he couldn't adjust them once the enclosure was mounted. 2) They tried the system with, and without, the LOC. Taking out the LOC should have changed the signal voltage going to the amp, which would require an adjustment of the gains, which they obviously didnt do.

When you first said they set the gains prior to listening to the system, I was suspicious. But I figured they must have had experience with that amp's gain settings while inputting from an LOC. But now its clear they were setting the gains by the seat of their pants, and they fucked up.

 
Activity
No one is currently typing a reply...
Old Thread: Please note, there have been no replies in this thread for over 3 years!
Content in this thread may no longer be relevant.
Perhaps it would be better to start a new thread instead.

Similar threads

Hmm.. No Bueno. Id prob be looking at another set of subs to be honest. Like some American Bass DX series. Great subs for the $. Maybe even look...
8
896
Thanks for all the help guys I'm going to buy a new sub, looking at some of the suggestions u guys gave. I have a small sealed box now but will...
41
4K
Well, JL Audio is going to be a crap brand in a couple of years.
34
5K
You'll probably just want to run 1 of those subs or you'll run into phase issues.
1
1K

About this thread

john.mulvehill

10+ year member
Member
Thread starter
john.mulvehill
Joined
Location
Philadelphia, PA
Start date
Participants
Who Replied
Replies
108
Views
28,372
Last reply date
Last reply from
-01limited-
1717274743729.png

Doxquzme

    Jun 1, 2024
  • 0
  • 0
Screenshot_20240531-022053.png

1aespinoza

    May 31, 2024
  • 0
  • 0

New threads

Top