Batteries are over rated

[Fishchris]

I asked the same thing. He's running a Wolfram C2400 on his bass and a Skar 150.4 on his mids/highs. So, he's lucky if he's even pushing 2K.

Hmmm. Okay. I was guessing more like 1.8K ? But 2K would be okay

Bobby, just out of curiosity, what are you running ? I didn't see it in your bio ?

 

[Bobbytwonames 5,000+ posts]

Hmmm. Okay. I was guessing more like 1.8K ? But 2K would be okay

Bobby, just out of curiosity, what are you running ? I didn't see it in your bio ?

I'm running an SFB3K on 4-8's. I have an AGM and a 320 amp mechman in my daily driver (2005 Dodge Standard Cab). My mids/highs amp is an AB 75x4 (IIRC) pushing 4- 6-½" coax and two RF super tweeters. My weekend car will have an SIA3500 on two AB HD8's with a bank of lithium and a 55 (yes) amp alternator. The mids/highs amp is a CT Sounds at60.4 pushing 8" mids and a tweet up front and 6-½" coaxials in the rear.

 

[John Doe]

Now let's quantify "eventually". Unplug your alternator and battery from your cap back and time how long those Maxwell caps keep things powered up for you.

The biggest issue with "just add more alternators, bro" is that some people have vehicles for which no HO alternator options exist at all, few vehicles have room for multiples and fewer still have off-the-shelf solutions for installing multiples.

How much power are you running by the way? Are you competing or playing music?

Exactly what I was thinking...as if adding multiple alts are as simple as dropping in a new battery lol

 

[hispls 5,000+ posts]

a few alternator companies advertise that they can custom make you an alternator to fit ANY vehicle, that will put out at least 250 amps, but probably more.

Is that 250A on a test bench, cold, and at some specific (not driving around town or parked) RPM? At what cost for some oddball cased alternator?

My supercap holds 8 ah's

How have you measured this? What do the discharge vs voltage curves look like?

I just feel like a LOT of the guys who are running big, crazy systems are also driving big SUV's and super cab trucks which have plenty of space for alternators. Certainly "most" guys who buy a vehicle with a very large stereo system in mind, are driving vehicles with space for more alts.

And many people do run multiple alternators AND large battery banks. HO alternators are 600$ or so on something nice these days and I don't know what custom mounting brackets would cost to get fabricated right now but probably not cheap and good luck finding a good welder/fab shop who can get you in the door in under a month.

My system is a daily driver... Do you want the bench tested wattage for my two amps ? Sure... but you will probably be quick to tell me that I'm only making like half of that, right

Depending on the music you use and how loud you play it, you may well be drawing very little power averaged over time.

Really you're not selling me on supercaps here. IMO they're completely obsolete for our purposes by just about every measure when compared to some of the new LTO battery options we have available. Nobody here is telling people not to upgrade alternators, but for practical purposes if an off-the-shelf solution doesn't exist for multiple alternator mounting there are few if any reasons to attempt to go that route as opposed to just adding bigger reserve Lithium banks.

 

[Fishchris]

I'm running an SFB3K on 4-8's. I have an AGM and a 320 amp mechman in my daily driver (2005 Dodge Standard Cab). My mids/highs amp is an AB 75x4 (IIRC) pushing 4- 6-½" coax and two RF super tweeters. My weekend car will have an SIA3500 on two AB HD8's with a bank of lithium and a 55 (yes) amp alternator. The mids/highs amp is a CT Sounds at60.4 pushing 8" mids and a tweet up front and 6-½" coaxials in the rear.

That truck setup sounds like it would sound really good. I really want to hear one of those setups with multiple 8"a. SMD has that kind of setup in his F350... But in spite of the fact his shop is 4 Mike's from my house, he is super busy, and not even sure when he has his truck out though.

You didn't say what kind of car has the 55amp alt, but I have to assume it's a small car, with a 4 cyl motor ?
Just out of curiosity, although you will have a big power reserve, with only a 55 amp alternator, how do you think that setup will do on like long drives, and playing the system for 2 or 3 hours ? (understanding that most people don't beat there system at like 99% for 2 or 3 hour trips lol)

 

[Fishchris]

Exactly what I was thinking...as if adding multiple alts are as simple as dropping in a new battery lol

I haven't done it yet, but it looks pretty straight forward. And if you get a good value high powered alternator, they are certainly close to the price of a good battery... Heck, less than a good sized lithium.

 

[Fishchris]

Is that 250A on a test bench, cold, and at some specific (not driving around town or parked) RPM? At what cost for some oddball cased alternator?

How have you measured this? What do the discharge vs voltage curves look like?

And many people do run multiple alternators AND large battery banks. HO alternators are 600$ or so on something nice these days and I don't know what custom mounting brackets would cost to get fabricated right now but probably not cheap and good luck finding a good welder/fab shop who can get you in the door in under a month.

Depending on the music you use and how loud you play it, you may well be drawing very little power averaged over time.

Really you're not selling me on supercaps here. IMO they're completely obsolete for our purposes by just about every measure when compared to some of the new LTO battery options we have available. Nobody here is telling people not to upgrade alternators, but for practical purposes if an off-the-shelf solution doesn't exist for multiple alternator mounting there are few if any reasons to attempt to go that route as opposed to just adding bigger reserve Lithium banks.

I could go through each of your points, and maybe somewhat defend those....
But if you already think that supercaps have no good purpose in a high powered system, you have not studied supercaps enough.
Put simply, supercaps can do things that no size, or amount of lithium batteries can do

 

[Fishchris]

I could go through each of your points, and maybe somewhat defend those....
But if you already think that supercaps have no good purpose in a high powered system, you have not studied supercaps enough.
Put simply, supercaps can do things that no size, or amount of lithium batteries can do

Hey btw, here's something to ponder... Steve Meade knows a ton, and owns a ton of car audio stuff. And, he's a really nice guy. I've met him, and gotten a few demos. He gets a ton of respect from me. You may or may not feel the same.
....But anyway. A while ago he tried adding four 500 farad supercaps to his 30Kwt system... But I felt like he made a "big mistake"... He did not add 2000 farads of capacitance to an already rediculously bad ass system... Instead, he "replaced" 4 of his big XS Power batteries ! I was seriously screaming at my PC when I saw this ! Like dude ! WTF !?!?
Supercaps are not supposed to "replace" batteries ! They are supposed to "work along with them !
So here's the interesting part... I would have expected him to be like, "Wow ! These things ****... It's not pounding as good now, as it did before...."
But no. He actually sounded like... "Okay, they are not too bad. They certainly added some noticable difference in the fast bass hits, like kick drums and such...."
Well yea ! That's what they do.... But just think if he had kept all of his battery power PLUS added 2000 farads of capacitance ! I'm still surprised he didn't do this ? Surely he could have squeezed those in somewhere, without removing batts ?
Anyway, aa much as I respect his knowledge, I still don't think he really got to see how great supercaps can be, when "added" to an already bass ass setup.

 

[Buck 5,000+ posts]

Caps + lithium.....that is all

This advice should be taken, this concept has been well proven by people, works well hahaha. I don't know if people know man, LOL

 

[John Doe]

I haven't done it yet, but it looks pretty straight forward. And if you get a good value high powered alternator, they are certainly close to the price of a good battery... Heck, less than a good sized lithium.

For you maybe. My thing is, not everyone has space to add multiple alts especially with newer or modern cars. The hassle it would be to fab brackets, or move around components in the engine bay doesn’t seem worth the effort when you could just save the time and money and just get a LTO. I mean you could just buy banks for around half the price of brand batteries and make your own that are stronger for a lot less as well. All preference I guess.

 

[Bobbytwonames 5,000+ posts]

I'm running an SFB3K on 4-8's. I have an AGM and a 320 amp mechman in my daily driver (2005 Dodge Standard Cab). My mids/highs amp is an AB 75x4 (IIRC) pushing 4- 6-½" coax and two RF super tweeters. My weekend car will have an

That truck setup sounds like it would sound really good. I really want to hear one of those setups with multiple 8"a. SMD has that kind of setup in his F350... But in spite of the fact his shop is 4 Mike's from my house, he is super busy, and not even sure when he has his truck out though.

You didn't say what kind of car has the 55amp alt, but I have to assume it's a small car, with a 4 cyl motor ?
Just out of curiosity, although you will have a big power reserve, with only a 55 amp alternator, how do you think that setup will do on like long drives, and playing the system for 2 or 3 hours ? (understanding that most people don't beat there system at like 99% for 2 or 3 hour trips lol)

My truck setup is all behind the seat of a standard cab Dodge, not and extra cab or crew cab. My other car is a 62' VW Beetle.

 

[Bobbytwonames 5,000+ posts]

Getting the lithium balanced as we speak.

 

[hispls 5,000+ posts]

I could go through each of your points, and maybe somewhat defend those....

And yet for some reason you will not. Why even start this thread fishing for an argument if you do not intend to defend your position when challenged or questioned on it?

supercaps can do things that no size, or amount of lithium batteries can do

OK, name 3 or 4 of these things and explain how supercaps is the only way get there, for bonus points explain how much quantifiable performance gain is to be had?

"Okay, they are not too bad. They certainly added some noticable difference in the fast bass hits, like kick drums and such...."

So your best evidence of performance gains is subjective review by an e-celebrity?

And if you get a good value high powered alternator, they are certainly close to the price of a good battery... Heck, less than a good sized lithium.

OK, I'll bite. My brother has an 02 Civic with a 9K Korean half bridge amp. What do you suppose the price would be for multiple alternators in that plus a cap bank sufficient to run that amp? Where would you even fit multiple alternators in that little car?

I'm currently running Soundigital 12K in my Jeep and will probably be swapping back and forth into a pair of Sundown SFB 8Ks. Can I get multiple alternators in there (straight six) without giving up my air conditioning? How many? What do you suppose custom fabrication and install would cost? I know my current alternator was around 600$ so how many of those + how much supercaps would support 12K?

All in, what would be the cost of your method and how much space would it take up in the cargo area for sufficient cap banks?

 

[Bobbytwonames 5,000+ posts]

And yet for some reason you will not. Why even start this thread fishing for an argument if you do not intend to defend your position when challenged or questioned on it?

OK, name 3 or 4 of these things and explain how supercaps is the only way get there, for bonus points explain how much quantifiable performance gain is to be had?

So your best evidence of performance gains is subjective review by an e-celebrity?

OK, I'll bite. My brother has an 02 Civic with a 9K Korean half bridge amp. What do you suppose the price would be for multiple alternators in that plus a cap bank sufficient to run that amp? Where would you even fit multiple alternators in that little car?

I'm currently running Soundigital 12K in my Jeep and will probably be swapping back and forth into a pair of Sundown SFB 8Ks. Can I get multiple alternators in there (straight six) without giving up my air conditioning? How many? What do you suppose custom fabrication and install would cost? I know my current alternator was around 600$ so how many of those + how much supercaps would support 12K?

All in, what would be the cost of your method and how much space would it take up in the cargo area for sufficient cap banks?

He just doesn't know any better.

 

[hispls 5,000+ posts]

He just doesn't know any better.

I'm sure they work well enough with a HO alternator and 2K amp. They may even be comparable to a couple additional AGMs in the trunk for daily music listening.

It's worrying that OP hasn't really posted any measurements or specific price tags or any other hard data with which we can compare and contrast.