Batteries are over rated

[Fishchris]

This is all just MPO of course. But I see so many posts about multiple batteries, bigger batteries, stronger batteries, etc.....
You all do understand that batteries simply “store power “ right ? They do not make it. One can have the biggest, baddest battery bank known to mankind..... but if you use more power than your making, you will eventually run out.
I’ve just come to believe it’s better to make as much power as you will need, right from the start. ALTERNATORS are where it’s at
Now, for big power bursts, nothing is better than super capacitors.

Right now I’m running a 320 amp alternator, a single $179 AGM 100 ah battery, and a 500 farad super capacitor. If I could afford it, I could see myself running another high powered alternator, or two, and another super capacitor or four... or 6 .....but still running a single $179 AGM battery. I just don’t have any need for more storage. Oh, and my 320 amp alternator costed Less than a lot of guys are spending on a single battery.

I do understand that if you have a little car, asking enough juice with a big, really strong alternator, or certainly, more than one alternator is going to be an issue. But with most trucks or SUV’s it’s usually pretty easy to make more juice to begin with.

I totally daydream about a 40Kwt system with four 500amp alternators, and like 6000 farads of supercapitors and ZERO batteries {and if four alts were not enough, I know how a guy could run 10 of them !}

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[Nerdy1980s]

This is all just MPO of course. But I see so many posts about multiple batteries, bigger batteries, stronger batteries, etc.....
You all do understand that batteries simply “store power “ right ? They do not make it. One can have the biggest, baddest battery bank known to mankind..... but if you use more power than your making, you will eventually run out.
I’ve just come to believe it’s better to make as much power as you will need, right from the start. ALTERNATORS are where it’s at
Now, for big power bursts, nothing is better than super capacitors.

Right now I’m running a 320 amp alternator, a single $179 AGM 100 ah battery, and a 500 farad super capacitor. If I could afford it, I could see myself running another high powered alternator, or two, and another super capacitor or four... or 6 .....but still running a single $179 AGM battery. I just don’t have any need for more storage. Oh, and my 320 amp alternator costed Less than a lot of guys are spending on a single battery.

I do understand that if you have a little car, asking enough juice with a big, really strong alternator, or certainly, more than one alternator is going to be an issue. But with most trucks or SUV’s it’s usually pretty easy to make more juice to begin with.

I totally daydream about a 40Kwt system with four 500amp alternators, and like 6000 farads of supercapitors and ZERO batteries {and if four alts were not enough, I know how a guy could run 10 of them !}

Batteries provide power on demand. Each cell has a certain amount of energy. To drive a large sound system needs a massive amount of power when it first boots. Sorta like a laser printer: it uses a certain amount of continuous energy when running, but when it first turns on, it uses a massive amount of energy all at once. Even a desktop laser printer can cause lights in the room to flicker momentarily when it first turns on, especially in an older house.

I'm not an engineer, but I think it's the amplifiers that need that initial boost of electricity to power up, and maybe the subwoofer also. Not sure on the subwoofer though. This is merely speculation anyway.

 

[Fishchris]

Batteries provide power on demand. Each cell has a certain amount of energy. To drive a large sound system needs a massive amount of power when it first boots. Sorta like a laser printer: it uses a certain amount of continuous energy when running, but when it first turns on, it uses a massive amount of energy all at once. Even a desktop laser printer can cause lights in the room to flicker momentarily when it first turns on, especially in an older house.

I'm not an engineer, but I think it's the amplifiers that need that initial boost of electricity to power up, and maybe the subwoofer also. Not sure on the subwoofer though. This is merely speculation anyway.

What your saying is partly true. Batteries do produce power on demand.... But so do super caps, and they do it multitudes faster. They don't store much, but then, if your making enough power to begin with, they don't have to.
My 500 farad super capacitor only stores 8 ah's, but wow, what a difference it makes for my electrical system !

 

[metalheadjoe 10+ year member]

Yes, you will eventually run out of battery power if you run your stereo hard enough for long enough, but you can also run out of gas, especially if you are bogging your engine down with multiple alternators; of course you also have to keep the engine revved high enough to get full current out of your alternators. Which would you rather carry in your vehicle: extra gasoline or extra batteries?

Batteries act as a buffer between your alternator and your stereo.

I think lithium is the best of both worlds.

 

[Buck 5,000+ posts]

Yes, you will eventually run out of battery power if you run your stereo hard enough for long enough, but you can also run out of gas, especially if you are bogging your engine down with multiple alternators; of course you also have to keep the engine revved high enough to get full current out of your alternators. Which would you rather carry in your vehicle: extra gasoline or extra batteries?

Batteries act as a buffer between your alternator and your stereo.

I think lithium is the best of both worlds.

If I was doing a system, I'd probably do lithium. All of my most badass box customers use litium and they just put in work, son, lol.

Lithium batteries do stuff that just put AGM's to shame, IMO.

 

[Fishchris]

Yes, you will eventually run out of battery power if you run your stereo hard enough for long enough, but you can also run out of gas, especially if you are bogging your engine down with multiple alternators; of course you also have to keep the engine revved high enough to get full current out of your alternators. Which would you rather carry in your vehicle: extra gasoline or extra batteries?

Batteries act as a buffer between your alternator and your stereo.

I think lithium is the best of both worlds.

Running out of gas is not really a consideration. Not saying that couldn't happen, but the additional gas for a larger, or multiple larger alternators is really small. I figured once that one could run 10 high powered alternators with about 150 HP... Certainly something one would need a big, strong motor for.

Yes, you will eventually run out of battery power if you run your stereo hard enough for long enough, but you can also run out of gas, especially if you are bogging your engine down with multiple alternators; of course you also have to keep the engine revved high enough to get full current out of your alternators. Which would you rather carry in your vehicle: extra gasoline or extra batteries?

Batteries act as a buffer between your alternator and your stereo.

I think lithium is the best of both worlds.

I felt zero difference in my truck, going from a 140 amp stock alternator to the 320 amp aftermarket alt, and I've heard from guys that you really hardly feel any more difference going from one high powered alt, to two. I guess you might feel it with 4 of them.... But then, you understand that they only put all that additional strain on the motor when your actually beating on the system.
I can play my 3500 etc system full tilt, without reving it up, and I usually do. When I do rev it from 600 to 2000 rpm's, it only makes about a .2 difference in volts.
Might be more important if I raised my wattage to 6Kwts... But again, if were going to do that, I'd add another alternator... And probably another supercap bank.

Yes, batteries do act as a buffer, but my oint is, if you make enough power to begin with, you don't need much of a buffer.
For that supercaps are plenty buffer, and they put out juice WAY faster than any battery, even lithiums

 

[Fishchris]

If I was doing a system, I'd probably do lithium. All of my most badass box customers use litium and they just put in work, son, lol.

Lithium batteries do stuff that just put AGM's to shame, IMO.

And super caps do things lithiums don't. I guess if I had no choice but to run the stock alternator, and I was not able to use supercaps, then sure, your right, lithiums blow away AGM's. It's just that in my setup, my battery doesn't have to do much. Honestly, my $179 AGM from Sam's club is probably a little bit of overkill. I'm sure I could drop down (back) to one of those $49 Wal Mart batteries, and not notice any difference in my system as it sits now.

 

[Buck 5,000+ posts]

Running out of gas is not really a consideration. Not saying that couldn't happen, but the additional gas for a larger, or multiple larger alternators is really small. I figured once that one could run 10 high powered alternators with about 150 HP... Certainly something one would need a big, strong motor for.

I felt zero difference in my truck, going from a 140 amp stock alternator to the 320 amp aftermarket alt, and I've heard from guys that you really hardly feel any more difference going from one high powered alt, to two. I guess you might feel it with 4 of them.... But then, you understand that they only put all that additional strain on the motor when your actually beating on the system.
I can play my 3500 etc system full tilt, without reving it up, and I usually do. When I do rev it from 600 to 2000 rpm's, it only makes about a .2 difference in volts.
Might be more important if I raised my wattage to 6Kwts... But again, if were going to do that, I'd add another alternator... And probably another supercap bank.

Yes, batteries do act as a buffer, but my oint is, if you make enough power to begin with, you don't need much of a buffer.
For that supercaps are plenty buffer, and they put out juice WAY faster than any battery, even lithiums

I had 4 batteries with my stock 130 amp alt. When I got my 300 amp alt, my system was literally twice as loud. They were just batcaps at the time, 230 AH and something like a total of 9000 CCA, total with all batteries.

I mean, you alternator is the only thing that replenishes lost electricity, unless you charge your batteries regularly with a battery charger at home.

 

[Buck 5,000+ posts]

And super caps do things lithiums don't. I guess if I had no choice but to run the stock alternator, and I was not able to use supercaps, then sure, your right, lithiums blow away AGM's. It's just that in my setup, my battery doesn't have to do much. Honestly, my $179 AGM from Sam's club is probably a little bit of overkill. I'm sure I could drop down (back) to one of those $49 Wal Mart batteries, and not notice any difference in my system as it sits now.

The dudes that I know that are using lithium batteries, they have 20kw-30kw and are doing damn near 160's in the 20-30 hz range. When you're at that level, lithium and alternators really can make a difference, especially doing a competition event, such as the competition where you're playing bass in the 20 hz region, and the average of your score is the score you get, so you have to maintain high Db's on music for a sustained time, like 60 seconds or so.

 

[Buck 5,000+ posts]

So you might not need a huge alt if you're banging around town, but it's impossible that alts have little effect on your sound system, because they're literally the only thing that is truly restoring lost energy.

 

[Fishchris]

I had 4 batteries with my stock 130 amp alt. When I got my 300 amp alt, my system was literally twice as loud. They were just batcaps at the time, 230 AH and something like a total of 9000 CCA, total with all batteries.

I mean, you alternator is the only thing that replenishes lost electricity, unless you charge your batteries regularly with a battery charger at home.

So, are you saying it was your alternator that made a huge difference, and not your batteries ?
I remember when I got my 320 amp alternator, it made a huge difference... And I still had a really cheap $49 WalMart lead acid battery... Which I think only held like 70 or 80 ah. Shortly thereafter, I out in a $179 Duracell AGM which holds 100 ah. It really didn't make much difference.
Then, when I added my super capacitor, that made another huge difference.

 

[Fishchris]

So you might not need a huge alt if you're banging around town, but it's impossible that alts have little effect on your sound system, because they're literally the only thing that is truly restoring lost energy.

Are you telling me this ? If so, your preaching to the choir here. I'm all down for making lots of power from the get.
It's batteries that I think are overrated.
It's my personal belief that more people would benefit from a stronger alternator and supercaps, vs. very expensive, or multiple batteries.

 

[Buck 5,000+ posts]

So, are you saying it was your alternator that made a huge difference, and not your batteries ?
I remember when I got my 320 amp alternator, it made a huge difference... And I still had a really cheap $49 WalMart lead acid battery... Which I think only held like 70 or 80 ah. Shortly thereafter, I out in a $179 Duracell AGM which holds 100 ah. It really didn't make much difference.
Then, when I added my super capacitor, that made another huge difference.

Yes. Basically, the way I would do a very high powered system, is I would invest the most into alternators, and then I'd use some sort of high discharge and recharge battery, cap, whatever, simply for short term storage of alt power, since the alts have delays in raising voltages when the bass draws current. I see batteries more as a dampening filter, than an actual source of power.

I know people who don't even have batteries in their cars, it's all alternators and super caps. They have so many caps that they easily store enough energy to start the car after it's been sitting for a while. That's savage right there. I'd still have at least one battery in between the caps and the alternator(s), to act as a somewhat smooth electrical transition device.

 

[Buck 5,000+ posts]

Are you telling me this ? If so, your preaching to the choir here. I'm all down for making lots of power from the get.
It's batteries that I think are overrated.
It's my personal belief that more people would benefit from a stronger alternator and supercaps, vs. very expensive, or multiple batteries.

I'm just making a general statement, not necessarily at you. I've been involved with some fairly powerful systems, and these are subjects that are often heavily thought about, because people want to get the best for their money. That's why I say that, just for anyone reading.

 

[Buck 5,000+ posts]

Are you telling me this ? If so, your preaching to the choir here. I'm all down for making lots of power from the get.
It's batteries that I think are overrated.
It's my personal belief that more people would benefit from a stronger alternator and supercaps, vs. very expensive, or multiple batteries.

I am agreeing with you