Batteries are over rated

[Buck 5,000+ posts]

Like with the lithium batteries- they work well with the super caps, from what I've seen. Like when you have an initial bass drop, like when your first burp you subs, or when your system switches notes in a song (changes frequencies), the whole system may draw more power. The lithium batteries seem to do an excellent job providing juice for the caps, while that short delay in alternator power is there from a change in current draw, until the alts or the alt control system recognizes the need for more charging.

So when you're in competition playing music, the caps seem to really be able to draw off the lithium batteries, because the draw on the alts is delayed some; alts take some amount of time, however minimal, to adjust their current output to the amps, which can cause voltages drops initially. That makes a difference in competition, when you play a different note and the alts have to adjust, the lithium battery can be that voltage or amperage differential buffer, to feed the caps. Does that make sense?

That's how I see it, lol. I haven't personally used super caps or lithium batteries, but I've designed many hardcore walls for people who do, for Db comps playing very low hz music. I've talked in detail with them about their electrical systems, and this seems to be the case over and over again, what I described above.

 

[Bobbytwonames 5,000+ posts]

Are you telling me this ? If so, your preaching to the choir here. I'm all down for making lots of power from the get.
It's batteries that I think are overrated.
It's my personal belief that more people would benefit from a stronger alternator and supercaps, vs. very expensive, or multiple batteries.

How many watts are you currently running? Sorry if I missed it.

 

[Bobbytwonames 5,000+ posts]

Lithium batteries are not overrated. 11 pounds and 108 ah. Slow discharge rate and fast charge rate. I've heard that they can last up to ten years.

 

[Slo_Ride 5,000+ posts]

It's also cheaper to run two, even three, stock or medium output alternators then one high output alternator in most cases. I obviously have older cars with plenty of room and no computers. Can't really do that on today's cars.

 

[Bobbytwonames 5,000+ posts]

Lithium and alternators are the way to go.

 

[Bobbytwonames 5,000+ posts]

This guy is running 3- 370's and lithium batteries. He's pushing 54K and his voltage is steady between 15 and 16v.

 

[metalheadjoe 10+ year member]

It's also cheaper to run two, even three, stock or medium output alternators then one high output alternator in most cases. I obviously have older cars with plenty of room and no computers. Can't really do that on today's cars.

Maybe it's cheaper to buy the alternators, but the brackets are really expensive.

 

[Slo_Ride 5,000+ posts]

Maybe it's cheaper to buy the alternators, but the brackets are really expensive.

Wouldn't know I make my own. Literally have no clue of what a bracket for an alternator would cost

 

[Fishchris]

How many watts are you currently running? Sorry if I missed it.

Only about 3500.... But I am completely confident, that with the right alternator setup, and a bunch of super caps, one could get by with a dinky, cheap, lead acid battery from Walmart.... Or heck, like Buck had said about some guys in the competitions > no batteries at all !
Now of course, supercaps can kinda sorta be considered batteries, as they do store a small amount of juice. My 500 farad supercap stores about 8 ah. And some of those guys have so many supercaps that they store like 80 or 100 ah ! But we are talking like 60 or 80 or more individual caps ! At a cost of like several thousand dollars !
The thing about those caps though, is they can let go of a rediculous amount of juice, almost instantly ! And they can **** it right back up just as fast from the alternator (s).
Way faster than any lead acid, AGM, or even lithium batteries can.

 

[Fishchris]

Maybe it's cheaper to buy the alternators, but the brackets are really expensive.

Not doubting you, but they really shouldn't be. That's when it would be good to know machinest personally

 

[Fishchris]

Lithium and alternators are the way to go.

Alternators and supercaps

That damn lithium is just too freaking expensive, when I really don't need to store much power anyway.... Then, even if somebody gave me a nice lithium battery, I'd still need a supercap, because lithium doesn't release bursts of power fast enough, for fast hits of like kick drums and such. Yes, lithium is faster than lead acid or AGM's, but it's not even close to a supercap.

 

[Bobbytwonames 5,000+ posts]

Only about 3500.... But I am completely confident, that with the right alternator setup, and a bunch of super caps, one could get by with a dinky, cheap, lead acid battery from Walmart.... Or heck, like Buck had said about some guys in the competitions > no batteries at all !
Now of course, supercaps can kinda sorta be considered batteries, as they do store a small amount of juice. My 500 farad supercap stores about 8 ah. And some of those guys have so many supercaps that they store like 80 or 100 ah ! But we are talking like 60 or 80 or more individual caps ! At a cost of like several thousand dollars !
The thing about those caps though, is they can let go of a rediculous amount of juice, almost instantly ! And they can **** it right back up just as fast from the alternator (s).
Way faster than any lead acid, AGM, or even lithium batteries can.

I'm running 3K with an AGM and a 320 amp alternator an all 1/0 gauge wire and it still isn't enough. I still drop to high 11's and low 12's on bass heavy songs with the car idling. I'll choose to run a 108 ah bank of lithium that weighs 11 pounds and cost me $230 over a 75 pound AGM everyday of the week. It's smaller, cheaper, discharges slower, charges faster, and lasts a lot longer.

 

[Bobbytwonames 5,000+ posts]

I'm running 3K with an AGM and a 320 amp alternator an all 1/0 gauge wire and it still isn't enough. I still drop to high 11's and low 12's on bass heavy songs with the car idling. I'll choose to run a 108 ah bank of lithium that weighs 11 pounds and cost me $230 over a 75 pound AGM everyday of the week. It's smaller, cheaper, discharges slower, charges faster, and lasts a lot longer.

This guy has zero supercaps and is running 54K watts to six team Fi 18's. All lithium and alternators. 6- 9K Wolfram's

 

[Bobbytwonames 5,000+ posts]

Alternators and supercaps

That damn lithium is just too freaking expensive, when I really don't need to store much power anyway.... Then, even if somebody gave me a nice lithium battery, I'd still need a supercap, because lithium doesn't release bursts of power fast enough, for fast hits of like kick drums and such. Yes, lithium is faster than lead acid or AGM's, but it's not even close to a supercap.

Why do you think lithium is so expensive? I just bought two banks of lishen and the bars for $460 delivered. That's 216 ah. They should last 5-10 years and only weigh 22 pounds combined.

 

[Fishchris]

I'm running 3K with an AGM and a 320 amp alternator an all 1/0 gauge wire and it still isn't enough. I still drop to high 11's and low 12's on bass heavy songs with the car idling. I'll choose to run a 108 ah bank of lithium that weighs 11 pounds and cost me $230 over a 75 pound AGM everyday of the week. It's smaller, cheaper, discharges slower, charges faster, and lasts a lot longer.

I'm not sure what the problem is with your system ?
But I'm running almost the exact same system.... 3Kwts + a few more... a 100 ah AGM battery, an XS Power 500 farad supercapacitor, and if the truck and alternator are cool, I might drop from 14.5 volts to 14.3 volts, playing hardcore bass tracks at full tilt !
If I'm driving, with rpm's up to 1500 or higher, my voltage will stay pegged at 14.5, even when beating the heck out of the system ! (Which I think is pretty bad ass )
Now granted, on a hot day, after everything is fully charged > with the stereo turned completely off, my truck will charge at 13.8, then if I turn the system on and start beating it, again will drop about .2 volts to 13.6..... but if I'm driving and have my RPM's up 1500 or higher, again, it won't drop at all.... It's just that it will start out at 13.8, which bugs me.
I've read this has to do with the ECU telling the alternator everything is fully charged (in it's opinion) and it doesn't need to work so hard, especially when hot, so as to preserve it's own life span. Whatever, I'd prefer 14.5 at all times, even if it did die a year or two sooner lol

Long story short, hot weather / a hot alternator, and what my ECU considers to be a "good enough" charge, causes my voltage to run at 13.8. Instead of 14.5. While beating my system has almost zero effect on my voltage.

I've looked at a ton of those 30, 60, 100Kwt+ stereo systems... I think like "most" of them lol, and yes, lots of them tend to go the "bunch of" batteries rout... Or the few big, crazy expensive lithium rout, and yes, that can work.
But again, I know it's possible to run those kinds of systems with few to zero actual batteries... Not even lead acid, let alone lithium. One just needs to make enough amps to begin with.

BTW, it would take too much explaining here, but I know of a way that a strong vehicle... A big truck, or SUV, could make like 6000 amps or more ! And btw, this is enough amps to make 87,000 watts at 14.5 volts continuous !

Anyway, 20 lithium batteries wouldn't help my system, because I'm able to stay at max voltage now