Warden daily?

[twistedchild420 5,000+ posts]

My fucking goodness this thread is a clusterfuck ....people thinking that a subs FS depicts every characteristic of a subs daily ability......to the OP...i have heard a FEW Warden set-ups that play music just as fine as any other sub....speakers are stupid.....build the right enclosure for them and they will do everything you tell them to.....

 

[winkychevelle 10+ year member]

im still thinking out the idea. but i doubt i go with a warden, right now im thinking 2 sundown z 12s or 2 ia death row 12s on a sundown 2500

 

[Suicide Bobb 5,000+ posts]

We are speaking technically here. Just because distortion is nearly impossible to hear at low frequencies doesn't mean it isn't there.

I'm just saying that it's retarded to say that a woofer doesn't sound good off of 50 watts, or that you have to give it X amount of watts to make it sound good. One of the most retarded myths out there.

 

---------- Post added at 09:09 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:08 AM ----------

 

LOL, i just went from a Fi Q 15 @ 1000rms to a BTL 18" @ 2000rms. and i can say while its WAY louder, it also doesn't sound as clean as before.

Those are two different subs, where the Q is their SQ line and the BTL is the SPL line.

 

[VWBobby 10+ year member]

Its simple. The further the coil travelsFrom the gap the more distortion comes into effect. More power = more travel

Not entirely true. SQ subs generally have weaker suspensions that allow for higher sensitivity. Higher sensitivity requires less power to make X sub move compared to Y sub, with lower sensitivity. SPL subs have stiffer suspensions, which results in lower sensitivity, thus being able to handle more power. Think of how much force it takes to move a tripple spider, compared to the average single spider.

Some SPL type subs even build some of the suspension into the surround itself or use 2 sets of spiders to support the coil better.

For the best SQ, a lighter coil and less power is usually used. Otherwise it will take more power to get a dual or quad coil sub with higher RMS rating to reproduce sound the same as the lighter sub. I can only think of a hand full of subs that have large motors and still considered a SQ type sub.

 

[Buck 5,000+ posts]

I'm just saying that it's retarded to say that a woofer doesn't sound good off of 50 watts, or that you have to give it X amount of watts to make it sound good. One of the most retarded myths out there. 

---------- Post added at 09:09 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:08 AM ----------

 

Those are two different subs, where the Q is their SQ line and the BTL is the SPL line.

The Q might be their SQ line, but it's far from a SQ woofer.

It's more of a good sounding SPL woofer.

 

[Suicide Bobb 5,000+ posts]

The Q might be their SQ line, but it's far from a SQ woofer.
It's more of a good sounding SPL woofer.

I agree completely, but that's off-topic which is why I didn't mention it lol

 

[RAM_Designs 5,000+ posts]

My fucking goodness this thread is a clusterfuck ....people thinking that a subs FS depicts every characteristic of a subs daily ability......to the OP...i have heard a FEW Warden set-ups that play music just as fine as any other sub....speakers are stupid.....build the right enclosure for them and they will do everything you tell them to.....

Agreed, for the most part...there are always exceptions and weird situations.

 

[Buck 5,000+ posts]

Enclosures do make a difference, but when talking about this high powered of woofer it's hard to make them sound good due to how the woofer is built and its parameters.

 

[Liquid Bass 10+ year member]

Hmm according to most of the people in this thread physics do not apply to speakers. For every positive there MUST be a negative. You have to lose something when you gain in power. That's why people say "pick 2: loud sq and quality"

 

[VWBobby 10+ year member]

Enclosures do make a difference, but when talking about this high powered of woofer it's hard to make them sound good due to how the woofer is built and its parameters.

Exactly! Finally someone that understands the limitations of heavy SPL suspension compared to a lighter SQ suspension.

 

[ahole-ic]

The fact still remains that you cannot determine SQ based on RMS ratings. It's funny that DD 9500 series woofers win lots of sq comps. Hell my DD z's sound very clean before I kick them into SPL mode. They are in a pretty amazing enclosure. They get only the cleanest signal, and they drop low with accuracy that would surely surprise you guys in here acting like you've heard a high dollar setup before. I think it's simply class envy. You can't afford it so you have to hate on it. Also, to the guy that said good sq/quality vs spl pick two. You listed 2 options and said pick 2. You're an idiot. You MEANT to refer to hoffman's iron law. I believe that is: small enclosure, high efficiency, low end extension, pick two. As you can see, it's not applicable to what you were trying to express and you fail.

This turned into a circle jerk of retards in here discussing that of which they do not know. Does the FS of a sub mean it won't play frequencies below fs? No of course not. It's also not like port tuning. With a port tuned at a specific frequency the port goes out of phase with the woofers at all freqs other than peak. A suspension doesn't go out of phase with anything. It simply complies better at fs. Man you guys are ignorant. It's laughable.

 

[will3 10+ year member]

The Warden will play fine on music, unless it has the SPL soft parts in it, Been running a Warden daily for around 3 years with no complaints here, is it a SQ sub ? No , but it will play music just fine as long as your enclosure design is correct , and 3 ft3 net is too small, try for around 4 ft3 net on a single 20.1 @ around .7 DCR ( dual 1.4 ohm ), There are aloy of guys running them in P&P and bassrace platforms with good #'s.

E mail nick if you don't believe me.

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

The enclosure means a lot to final performance, but it cannot negate speaker specs. Fs is a perfect example. The Fs of a speaker affects EBP, impedance rise, etc. So since fs affects EBP, its a big factor in whether or not a speaker should even be ported, let alone affecting the tuning freq.

Can you tune below fs? Yes, definitely, but there is a trade off. Fs is a function of suspension compliance and moving mass. The enclosure will affect compliance (over all compliance), but the speaker's suspension (and thus, fs) is not ignored once placed in an enclosure.

It is true that distortion increases as cone excursion increases, but assuming the excursion stays within the xmax of the driver, how noticeable that distortion change will be is debatable. BL optimized drivers will display virtually no audible distortion changes based on excursion differences, again assuming it stays within xmax.

Sure, DD9500's and Kicker L series drivers have won SQ competitions. But usually SQ judging is done at relatively low volume levels (like mid 120's) where the differences in design types between a stiff suspension, heavy moving mass like most SPL designs, will not be nearly as apparent. Try having a SQ competition at higher volume levels, and subs designed for a more linear response will be more able to show their advantages over a design like the 9500. Nothing against the 9500's, or even L series, but to suggest they are capable of SQ competition winning performance is to suggest they are an end-all be-all design that can perform equally as dominant in the SQ or SPL lanes... is over simplifying the situation and distorting reality. This is also true of the Warden.

There were a few other points in this thread I meant to address, but Ive forgotten them now and am too lazy to go back and look. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/tongue.gif.6130eb82179565f6db8d26d6001dcd24.gif

 

[ahole-ic]

The enclosure means a lot to final performance, but it cannot negate speaker specs. Fs is a perfect example. The Fs of a speaker affects EBP, impedance rise, etc. So since fs affects EBP, its a big factor in whether or not a speaker should even be ported, let alone affecting the tuning freq.
Can you tune below fs? Yes, definitely, but there is a trade off. Fs is a function of suspension compliance and moving mass. The enclosure will affect compliance (over all compliance), but the speaker's suspension (and thus, fs) is not ignored once placed in an enclosure.

It is true that distortion increases as cone excursion increases, but assuming the excursion stays within the xmax of the driver, how noticeable that distortion change will be is debatable. BL optimized drivers will display virtually no audible distortion changes based on excursion differences, again assuming it stays within xmax.

Sure, DD9500's and Kicker L series drivers have won SQ competitions. But usually SQ judging is done at relatively low volume levels (like mid 120's) where the differences in design types between a stiff suspension, heavy moving mass like most SPL designs, will not be nearly as apparent. Try having a SQ competition at higher volume levels, and subs designed for a more linear response will be more able to show their advantages over a design like the 9500. Nothing against the 9500's, or even L series, but to suggest they are capable of SQ competition winning performance is to suggest they are an end-all be-all design that can perform equally as dominant in the SQ or SPL lanes... is over simplifying the situation and distorting reality. This is also true of the Warden.

There were a few other points in this thread I meant to address, but Ive forgotten them now and am too lazy to go back and look. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/tongue.gif.6130eb82179565f6db8d26d6001dcd24.gif

The whole thread is an over simplification. The 9500 wins at higher volume levels such as 140's but there no use arguing that point. It's easily proved. Nobody argued that it was the end all, be all woofer. The point was, that the sq of a sub stage cannot be determined by the rms rating. It can be verified time and time again. Referencing impedence rise in a discussion about sq is so irrelevant it is laughable, and several other things you said I've forgotten to address, and I'm too lazy to go back and look.

 

[wickedwitt 10+ year member]

It sounds like you aren't going to be abusing the sub very much on daily. If you pretty much only use it for comps, I'd say go for it.