Shallow mount vs 8 inch vs radical modification

[hispls 5,000+ posts]

That all makes sense to me, except the 4 8s. I'm not looking for SPL, I'm looking for SQ while still having some knock. All the 8s I've listened to lately just do not get low enough. "Gangsta Rap Made me Do It" by Ice Cube is a great demo track for it. "It's All On Me" by Dr. Dre is another one. I've listened to every 8 I can find in the last week or so and none of them can drop the bottom out like I want. They get loud, but they don't get low. Maybe I'm just not listening to the right setups but I've been as thorough as possible.

The install time is a fair portion of the price I'm going to pay, including full dynamat, etc. These guys did my system back in 2014 and they did a very good job back then, which is why I'm returning.

I'll see if I can download either of those tracks to confirm but I doubt you'll need to tune lower than 40hz to play either.

That said, as we explained earlier you're fighting a losing battle against Hoffman's Iron Law and any way you slice it you're either using small piston area or larger piston area with less stroke. You just hit the wall with how much air you can move in that style vehicle and generally speaking the acoustics of trying to get good low frequency while keeping functionality of rear seats isn't great in that body style.

IF you can get a ported box down there somehow that would help some but I don't think believe one or the other out of the ideas presented is going to be a dramatic difference.

I would definitely agree that judging components based on the rather perfect-world conditions of a listening room in a shop is not going to give you an accurate expectation of what to expect when mounted in a vehicle.

 

[Bobbytwonames 5,000+ posts]

I've got a collection of screenshots right here.
View attachment 40497

Just say that you can't.

 

[Jason Twice]

Lol "in the display". Bud the display isn't going to replicate how it sounds in the car. The mids can easily be in sealed pods "in the display" but they won't be in the cars doors the midrange and tweeters are pointed right at you "in the display" but without proper install it's unlikely they will be in the vehicle all the speakers are mounted closely together and at even distance from the listen "in the display" but will be drastically different in the car. The car has numerous points of reflection the display does not. The car has surfaces that absorb sound the display, honestly could have more depending on the display, but at any rate it's different. You could install the speakers hate them and do something like throw a carpet dash pad on and completely change the way the system sounds.

I have never felt the need for a 3way system it's a way for installers to upsell component kits to people with factory 3way kits or 2.75 or 3inch mids in the dash. But they don't usually do anything special without significant install time and tuning.

I don't work with solidworks if you have over 3cubes it's likely you can fit 10s assuming you can fit the mounting depth of the motor. I'm not against 10s or even jl but overall you are buying into high-end names.

Without proper install techniques, dsp tuning, sound deadening where appropriate the equipment will always sound less than ideal.

Buck does some pretty awesome box designs and is quite fair in price. Granted you say you have a shop to do it. I just hope they aren't just building you a sealed box or a high tuned ported box.

Really I hope the shop does good by you but I'm doubtful.

The audio industry has slowed alot at least with online presence. All the forums I know are more or less dead.

2007-2013 was pretty good on here idk why it slowed so much.

Sound deadening, dsp tuning, etc are all going into the build. Hell I'd put dynamat in the cab even if I wasn't getting a sound system. Budget was never really my constraint. Do high-end brands give *any* increase in performance? If so then it's worth it to me. I appreciate your advice, but I don't think you really understood my initial questions.

 

[Jason Twice]

I'll see if I can download either of those tracks to confirm but I doubt you'll need to tune lower than 40hz to play either.

That said, as we explained earlier you're fighting a losing battle against Hoffman's Iron Law and any way you slice it you're either using small piston area or larger piston area with less stroke. You just hit the wall with how much air you can move in that style vehicle and generally speaking the acoustics of trying to get good low frequency while keeping functionality of rear seats isn't great in that body style.

IF you can get a ported box down there somehow that would help some but I don't think believe one or the other out of the ideas presented is going to be a dramatic difference.

I would definitely agree that judging components based on the rather perfect-world conditions of a listening room in a shop is not going to give you an accurate expectation of what to expect when mounted in a vehicle.

Thanks, and yeah that's fair.

I've pretty much made up my mind on what I'm going with. When I get it installed in a month or so I'll circle back, maybe post a few videos, etc.

 

[hispls 5,000+ posts]

Hell I'd put dynamat in the cab even if I wasn't getting a sound system. Budget was never really my constraint. Do high-end brands give *any* increase in performance?

My brother had a 2019 Ram3500 with all the fixin's and it was pretty well luxury car build quality. Not sure if you're gaining all that much from deadening in a vehicle that may or may not come with a fair bit from the factory, but it never hurts especially in door panels.

Is a 30$ cigar better than a 8$ cigar? Absolutely. Is it 3X better, probably not. You certainly hit a point of diminishing returns up-spending on premium brands or their top lines.

That all said, it is very common to find JL speakers and amps still in service 20 years later and they do hold fairly good resale value. The big thing with a brand like JL is that the MSRP is that it's set high enough that the distributor AND the retail shop can make a vig for selling it whereas online only brands (usually one guy out of his barn) have low overhead and no distribution chain that needs to get paid.

The other place you'll find value there is if the shop does good work and will take care of you if something goes wrong (like uninstall something and re-install it if it needs to go out for warranty). Some bloke with a website and a CONEX full of Chinese amps and speakers certainly won't do that. A year and a half ago I paid retail on an Alpine head unit from a local shop which was higher than I'd normally pay but the shop owner hosts competitions there and I wasn't sure how well the unit would work for what I'm doing and I knew he'd take care of me if I needed to return/exchange it.

And at the end of the day, if you throw in your favorite album and it makes you happy you did it right.

Do please report back when you get this all sorted and do some listening.

 

[hispls 5,000+ posts]

Just say that you can't.

OK. I can't think of any occasion when you've ever admitted you were wrong.

 

[metalheadjoe 10+ year member]

OK. I can't think of any occasion when you've ever admitted you were wrong.

You fall into the category of "Everyone".

 

[Bobbytwonames 5,000+ posts]

OK. I can't think of any occasion when you've ever admitted you were wrong.

Many times. I have often said my bad. You still can't prove what you claimed. I reply to people who start **** with me. I don't start it.

You fall into the category of "Everyone".

Are you trying to start **** now? You just had to chime into a conversation that had nothing to do with you.

 

[Jimi77 5,000+ posts]

That all makes sense to me, except the 4 8s. I'm not looking for SPL, I'm loo

Sound deadening, dsp tuning, etc are all going into the build. Hell I'd put dynamat in the cab even if I wasn't getting a sound system. Budget was never really my constraint. Do high-end brands give *any* increase in performance? If so then it's worth it to me. I appreciate your advice, but I don't think you really understood my initial questions.

I would say in some cases you're paying for less, not just from a value standpoint. For example, I'd say an Adire Brahma out performs the w7 in SQ.

 

[Buck 5,000+ posts]

I would say in some cases you're paying for less, not just from a value standpoint. For example, I'd say an Adire Brahma out performs the w7 in SQ.

I’ve wondered so much about this. The Adire Brahma’s really seem so similar to w7’s. I’ve designed for both of those. The Brahma’s seem to really be something special, IMO.

 

[mat3833 10+ year member]

I’ve wondered so much about this. The Adire Brahma’s really seem so similar to w7’s. I’ve designed for both of those. The Brahma’s seem to really be something special, IMO.

The brahma is pretty awesome. A buddy of mine in Gainesville has a pair of the Mk1 15's on 2k. Sound damn good and get pretty loud.

Matt

 

[Buck 5,000+ posts]

The brahma is pretty awesome. A buddy of mine in Gainesville has a pair of the Mk1 15's on 2k. Sound damn good and get pretty loud.

Matt

Check out their KH-3000’s (iirc). Their 4” coiled woofer has a seriously low Mms, like half of a DC 4” coil (roughly).

 

[Bobbytwonames 5,000+ posts]

Hasn't the OP already purchased the W7's? And for $499 each he got a pretty good deal if they were BNIB.

 

[hispls 5,000+ posts]

I would say in some cases you're paying for less, not just from a value standpoint. For example, I'd say an Adire Brahma out performs the w7 in SQ.

Brahma is getting rather spendy and that's just like one guy with a barn (or whatever commercial storage building). Again, add the overhead of running a real company with R&D and marketing, wages, pensions, etc. and if they wanted to sell to a distributor to sell to brick and mortar shops they'd probably be MSRP right around W7. Brahma is pretty comparable to W7, I'd say slightly better because you could easily rebuild it if you blew it up or damaged the soft parts.

We can see this with Sundown just adding the overhead of being a proper business how much more his prices need to be than the other guys selling the same stuff from China.

 

[Bobbytwonames 5,000+ posts]

Brahma is getting rather spendy and that's just like one guy with a barn (or whatever commercial storage building). Again, add the overhead of running a real company with R&D and marketing, wages, pensions, etc. and if they wanted to sell to a distributor to sell to brick and mortar shops they'd probably be MSRP right around W7. Brahma is pretty comparable to W7, I'd say slightly better because you could easily rebuild it if you blew it up or damaged the soft parts.

We can see this with Sundown just adding the overhead of being a proper business how much more his prices need to be than the other guys selling the same stuff from China.

How dare you say Sundown is Chinese. The Sundown people will cancel you for saying such nonsense.