Shallow mount vs 8 inch vs radical modification

[Jason Twice]

My vehicle is a 2022 F350 crew cab (the 4 door cab). I listen to everything from hiphop to prog rock to folk to audiobooks. I'm looking for subs that can really dig deep and hit those bone-shaking undertones while still being able to rumble and roar. I do not want my subs to bottom out before my music does, and while SQ is my primary focus I'm happy to trade some of it for SPL, especially a substantial amount of SPL.

I plan on putting these subs in a box under my rear seats. That should give me about 2.4 cu ft of usable volume. This can be extended to about 3.5 given an option enumerated upon below.

I've had several custom systems in my past trucks. 15 years ago I had 2 8s at relatively low power. They were better than stock but not at all what I wanted. I don't remember what they were but they bottomed out before my music did, which was extremely frustrating. They also couldn't get loud. The truck I purchased after that was bigger, and I fit 2x JL Audio 13TW5 shallow mount subs in it. They were pretty good, and honestly if I had to go that route again I wouldn't be upset. However, they weren't quite loud enough. They were very good, but I want more if I can manage it. This time around I would probably get 3 of them if I went that route, but I have two other options I'd like to consider:

• I can get dual or maybe even triple 8s in a ported box, only this time my budget is significantly larger. I can afford any 8 inch sub on the market, but the two leaders seem to be Digital Design Audio 2508s or JL Audio 8W7AEs. I'm leaning towards the JLs given the reviews I've read, and the advertised frequency range of 23-250hz. The DD Audio 2508 has some very rave reviews but I don't know how well it can drop the bottom out. I'm hesitant to get 8s again since they just seemed weak, but everything I've read says modern 8s are much better than those of 15 years ago.
• I could get a spacer, lift my rear seat 2.5 inches, and fit 1 or 2 10s. This should give me about 3.2-3.4 cubic feet and enough space to accommodate the larger sub diameter. The problem is then I have to have my rear seat lifted which could have numerous unforeseeable problems... or none at all. This would open the discussion to 10s, and the options there seem substantially better. The 10W7 by JL Audio looks particularly good. Like I said though I'm very hesitant to go this route, and will do so only if I have no other way to get that thunderous, extraordinarily deep bass I crave.

I'm also open to alternative solutions, I just can't think of anywhere to put the subs except under the rear seat. Some of the subs I've looked at but ruled out so far are Morel Ultimo Titanium, Memphis Audio (the MJM 844), and various other brands. The MJM844s seem to have good reviews but having a frequency response that only goes down to 44hz is just not what I'm looking for. Morel is expensive but I've had good experiences with their speakers in the past. Their subs seems rather lackluster on the SPL front, however.

The rest of the system will likely be Morel Virtus or a similar 3-way setup. I had some Morel 2-ways years ago and they were good but lacked the midrange necessary to enjoy the rock and folk I love so much.

Thank you for reading, and I sincerely appreciate any feedback.

Edit: Spelling and grammar

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[deez283 10+ year member]

Ever thought of a center console enclosure? Another option maybe. I currently run one with two 10's and it does pretty good.

 

[Buck 5,000+ posts]

SSA’s 8’s come to mind for the digging lower with 8’s. The Sundown sa-8’s might be one to consider, as well. The 2508’s are good subs, definitely loud subs.

Lifting the rear seat up gives you more space. Idk what exactly the shape under your rear seat is, but a lot of time you can lift the seat some and get 4 8’s under there. That would be probably at least 2000w in todays times, and you just port out one side or both, depends on the exact setup.

I would not get a Memphis 8.

 

[Jimi77 5,000+ posts]

I'd probably go with 8s. There are lots of nice 8s there, especially if you're not budget conscious.

 

[Bobbytwonames 5,000+ posts]

My vehicle is a 2022 F350 crew cab (the 4 door cab). I listen to everything from hiphop to prog rock to folk to audiobooks. I'm looking for subs that can really dig deep and hit those bone-shaking undertones while still being able to rumble and roar. I do not want my subs to bottom out before my music does, and while SQ is my primary focus I'm happy to trade some of it for SPL, especially a substantial amount of SPL.

I plan on putting these subs in a box under my rear seats. That should give me about 2.4 cu ft of usable volume. This can be extended to about 3.5 given an option enumerated upon below.

I've had several custom systems in my past trucks. 15 years ago I had 2 8s at relatively low power. They were better than stock but not at all what I wanted. I don't remember what they were but they bottomed out before my music did, which was extremely frustrating. They also couldn't get loud. The truck I purchased after that was bigger, and I fit 2x JL Audio 13TW5 shallow mount subs in it. They were pretty good, and honestly if I had to go that route again I wouldn't be upset. However, they weren't quite loud enough. They were very good, but I want more if I can manage it. This time around I would probably get 3 of them if I went that route, but I have two other options I'd like to consider:

• I can get dual or maybe even triple 8s in a ported box, only this time my budget is significantly larger. I can afford any 8 inch sub on the market, but the two leaders seem to be Digital Design Audio 2508s or JL Audio 8W7AEs. I'm leaning towards the JLs given the reviews I've read, and the advertised frequency range of 23-250hz. The DD Audio 2508 has some very rave reviews but I don't know how well it can drop the bottom out. I'm hesitant to get 8s again since they just seemed weak, but everything I've read says modern 8s are much better than those of 15 years ago.
• I could get a spacer, lift my rear seat 2.5 inches, and fit 1 or 2 10s. This should give me about 3.2-3.4 cubic feet and enough space to accommodate the larger sub diameter. The problem is then I have to have my rear seat lifted which could have numerous unforeseeable problems... or none at all. This would open the discussion to 10s, and the options there seem substantially better. The 10W7 by JL Audio looks particularly good. Like I said though I'm very hesitant to go this route, and will do so only if I have no other way to get that thunderous, extraordinarily deep bass I crave.

I'm also open to alternative solutions, I just can't think of anywhere to put the subs except under the rear seat. Some of the subs I've looked at but ruled out so far are Morel Ultimo Titanium, Memphis Audio (the MJM 844), and various other brands. The MJM844s seem to have good reviews but having a frequency response that only goes down to 44hz is just not what I'm looking for. Morel is expensive but I've had good experiences with their speakers in the past. Their subs seems rather lackluster on the SPL front, however.

The rest of the system will likely be Morel Virtus or a similar 3-way setup. I had some Morel 2-ways years ago and they were good but lacked the midrange necessary to enjoy the rock and folk I love so much.

Thank you for reading, and I sincerely appreciate any feedback.

Edit: Spelling and grammar

Don't be afraid to get 8's. My 8's peak at 31 hz. and play 25 - 40 hz. Lift your seat and get four Sundown X8's on a Sundown SIA3500 or a SALT-4.

 

[Clifff150 10+ year member]

Whenever I decide to run 8’s I am going to run the SSA F8L. Sundown also has some great options for 8’s. Jacob seems to appreciate the smaller woofers which is nice. Check out the build that SSA did for the 15 (I think) F150. It is likely similar to your truck.

 

[Bobbytwonames 5,000+ posts]

Whenever I decide to run 8’s I am going to run the SSA F8L. Sundown also has some great options for 8’s. Jacob seems to appreciate the smaller woofers which is nice. Check out the build that SSA did for the 15 (I think) F150. It is likely similar to your truck.

If money is no object then the DD2508 is probably the best out there. I'm pretty sure that they cost around $475 each.

 

[hispls 5,000+ posts]

I fit 2x JL Audio 13TW5 shallow mount subs in it. They were pretty good, and honestly if I had to go that route again I wouldn't be upset. However, they weren't quite loud enough.

So you're up against the old addages of:
1. Space makes bass.
2. There's no replacement for displacement
Rather simplified versions of Hoffman's Iron Law.

8" woofers just don't have much piston area and shallow mounts will have very limited excursion.

Your best bet would probably be to look into 4 very robust 8"s for under the seat just for the fact that it will be a better locadion/aiming of the woofers than up firing into the seat.

You may be able to lift the rear seats an inch or two to get a bit more box volume but this may be expensive and/or complex and depending on who is sitting back there it may not be practical.

I would avoid center console replacement. This is not a good location to get bass in a pickup truck.

I have an older F250 here and just have one back seat folded up and a box of around 3.75 cubic feet net behind that seat which can be removed if I need both back seats. This may be a good compromise depending how often you need ALL the passenger space. That location for a box allows you far better options for something with a large cone AND has enough depth to let you put in something with high excursion.

DO keep us posted with your results. This is a common question/issue.

 

[deez283 10+ year member]

So you're up against the old addages of:
1. Space makes bass.
2. There's no replacement for displacement
Rather simplified versions of Hoffman's Iron Law.

8" woofers just don't have much piston area and shallow mounts will have very limited excursion.

Your best bet would probably be to look into 4 very robust 8"s for under the seat just for the fact that it will be a better locadion/aiming of the woofers than up firing into the seat.

You may be able to lift the rear seats an inch or two to get a bit more box volume but this may be expensive and/or complex and depending on who is sitting back there it may not be practical.

I would avoid center console replacement. This is not a good location to get bass in a pickup truck.

I have an older F250 here and just have one back seat folded up and a box of around 3.75 cubic feet net behind that seat which can be removed if I need both back seats. This may be a good compromise depending how often you need ALL the passenger space. That location for a box allows you far better options for something with a large cone AND has enough depth to let you put in something with high excursion.

DO keep us posted with your results. This is a common question/issue.

I don't know about the center console statement..

I have mine with subs down firing with 3-4" of space to the floor with port firing towards under the dash for loading and I like it much better than my buddies set up of two 8's under the rear seat firing towards the driver.

His sub stage is a 2000 watt Skar amp and a pair of the beefiest 8's Skar makes in a 2.5 cubic foot enclosure, Thats sticks out from under the seat taking half the foot space for passengers, with his set up I'm hearing lots of mechanical noise from the subs and most songs like doo doo he is not happy..

My set up is a Zapco ST2000XM II powering a pair of Dayton HO 10's @ 2 ohms for 1500 RMS in a tiny 1.10 Cuft. box tuned to 33hz. Zero sub mechanical noise and zero port noise at full tilt and it plays a much wider range of music and just sounds good.

At first I wasn't sure about my setup but after the subs broke in and I added more power im pretty happy. I've never seen a box so small put out so much sound.

Now I'm not saying console boxes are king but I'm sure the design plays a role. I researched for months and months and for a console port forward (for loading) and subs down or back was the obvious choice..

A console with subs facing up is going to load different thus sound different..

With that said if the op doesn't have passengers or is willing to take out the rear seats then options are pretty unlimited.

 

[hispls 5,000+ posts]

Now I'm not saying console boxes are king but I'm sure the design plays a role. I researched for months and months and for a console port forward (for loading) and subs down or back was the obvious choice..

You are fortunate that worked out for you, but I've seen mixed reviews from people who have done this and the real issue is that with all the sound sources centered there's so much more probability of getting strange standing waves. Same reason you never put a subwoofer into the center of a theater room but load it into a corner, same reason most of the trunk, hatch or SUV builds will keep box close to the rear as possible and fire subs/port either right into that wall or right next to it... to avoid cancellation. Also who wants to scrag the center console on a brand new 100,000$+ truck. I'd like to hope OP is either in the market to try to keep this extremely stock or go all out custom in which case I'd still prefer a seat lift and something nice built in under the rear seat to preserve functionality in the console.

 

[deez283 10+ year member]

You are fortunate that worked out for you, but I've seen mixed reviews from people who have done this and the real issue is that with all the sound sources centered there's so much more probability of getting strange standing waves. Same reason you never put a subwoofer into the center of a theater room but load it into a corner, same reason most of the trunk, hatch or SUV builds will keep box close to the rear as possible and fire subs/port either right into that wall or right next to it... to avoid cancellation. Also who wants to scrag the center console on a brand new 100,000$+ truck. I'd like to hope OP is either in the market to try to keep this extremely stock or go all out custom in which case I'd still prefer a seat lift and something nice built in under the rear seat to preserve functionality in the console.

Yes it's simple boundry loading this ain't nothing new that's why I chose the port and sub placement I did, If a dude has 100,000 truck he should be able to afford a nice custom console enclosure.. You know leather wrapped and all that, I wouldn't expect him to throw a bare mdf enclosure in there.

My console has cup holders and a cubby so it's functionality is the same as stock.. In my case better.

I usually have passengers in the back hitting logging roads etc. you know using my truck as a truck and I was not willing to sacrifice any room for me or passengers.

It can be done but needs to be done right.

 

[Jason Twice]

Thanks for all your input. I'm not removing my console enclosure; that's too much of a modification and I just don't want to do it. My installer recommended 2x JL Audio 12TW3s. His reasoning was that 8s won't play down to 30hz, which is what I need to hit if I'm going to enjoy my sound.

I appreciate all the feedback. I'm still not sold on the 12TW3s, but it's what I'm currently leaning towards. He recommended other shallow mount sub designs as well. 8s might be able to play loud but if they can't dig down to 30hz then they simply don't have what I want.

 

[Jimi77 5,000+ posts]

Thanks for all your input. I'm not removing my console enclosure; that's too much of a modification and I just don't want to do it. My installer recommended 2x JL Audio 12TW3s. His reasoning was that 8s won't play down to 30hz, which is what I need to hit if I'm going to enjoy my sound.

I appreciate all the feedback. I'm still not sold on the 12TW3s, but it's what I'm currently leaning towards. He recommended other shallow mount sub designs as well. 8s might be able to play loud but if they can't dig down to 30hz then they simply don't have what I want.

JL makes nice subs and I'm sure you'll be happy with them, but I have to disagree with your installer. If you port a couple 8" subs you should have plenty of output down to 30hz - assuming you tune that low. Earthquake makes some nice passive radiators (SLAPS) that you can use instead of a port to accommodate space restrictions. Just make sure you have an SSF and set it really close to the tuning frequency as PRs unload faster than ports.

 

[deez283 10+ year member]

Thanks for all your input. I'm not removing my console enclosure; that's too much of a modification and I just don't want to do it. My installer recommended 2x JL Audio 12TW3s. His reasoning was that 8s won't play down to 30hz, which is what I need to hit if I'm going to enjoy my sound.

I appreciate all the feedback. I'm still not sold on the 12TW3s, but it's what I'm currently leaning towards. He recommended other shallow mount sub designs as well. 8s might be able to play loud but if they can't dig down to 30hz then they simply don't have what I want.

You mentioned the JL13tw5 wasn't quite enough, those are supposed to be a step up from 12tw3's..

If you are going under the seat no matter what. I'd just get some beefy 8's the SSA F8L calls for like .55 each so you should be able to fit a pair no problem..

I might of missed it but how much power you looking to run amp wise?

 

[Jason Twice]

You mentioned the JL13tw5 wasn't quite enough, those are supposed to be a step up from 12tw3's..

If you are going under the seat no matter what. I'd just get some beefy 8's the SSA F8L calls for like .55 each so you should be able to fit a pair no problem..

I might of missed it but how much power you looking to run amp wise?

I'll run whatever amps I need to. Is there some reason the SSA F8Ls are better than JL 8w7s or DD 2508s?