RAAMmat honest opinions and experiences.

[Anthony Collova 10+ year member]

His quote "for the price it can not be beat" is far from ludicrous, you can't even see what you are doing, but as other people have posted they see it, and so do I and it's not good for your company. It's free advice, we are the guys buying your product. If you want to sell more, don't post negative things about a competitor that people here obviously like. Even if your product is that much better it is not professional to do this, it looks bad.

Gotcha..

 

[dan45hk 10+ year member]

Nevermind, I got it, lol.

 

[NDMstang65 10+ year member]

SS has fantastic products...used them for many years now //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif.

It is worth me not having to put more then 2 or 3 layers in a door or a roof to pay the extra 27% in cost...last I checked that was significantly less then doubling up the cost on a thinner material //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

All in all it's just mass damping, either way you go about it..until you get into methods of actively controlled spring damping like i've researched for Boeing you really aren't getting into the nitty gritty technical stuff...you are simply mass loading a panel //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[Anthony Collova 10+ year member]

Explain this to me then. If one layer of RAAMat stops the rattling in someone's car door, and that's all they want, wouldn't it be cheaper to use RAAMat than SS? Isn't one sheet of RAAMat cheaper than one sheet of SS? I think the point the other guy was making is that RAAMat works well enough for some people. If SS provides X% less vibration or rattling that may be irrelevant if that degree of dampening is not needed.

This is an easy one.

If one layer of raammat is enough to acheive your goals, this means that 1/2 a layer of a superior product is enough to accomplish your goals.

What you can not seem to get your head around is surface coverage.

You do not have to cover 100% of the sheet metal to kill the vibrations throughout the entire sheet metal surface.

Do this.

Take 2 cymbols from a set of drums. They have to be the same exact symbol.

Cover one symbol with a full layer of Raamamt - 100% surface coverage.

How much Raammat did that take? 2 sq feet maybe?

Ok, now take half as much of Dynamat Extreme, Hushmat or vmax. cut it in to 2 sq inch pieces, then layer those peices like a checker board over 50% surface area of the second symbol.

The second symbol will actually be more dead than the firsts one. even with less surface coverage. This is because the second one is treated with a product that is far superior.

Now calculate how much you spent on the products.

If you spend less on the second symbol and got better results, how could you possibly still sit back and justify that Symbol 1 is treated with a better or a cheaper product?

Do the test. I am not making this stuff up!

ANT

 

[dan45hk 10+ year member]

This is an easy one.If one layer of raammat is enough to acheive your goals, this means that 1/2 a layer of a superior product is enough to accomplish your goals.

What you can not seem to get your head around is surface coverage.

You do not have to cover 100% of the sheet metal to kill the vibrations throughout the entire sheet metal surface.

Do this.

Take 2 cymbols from a set of drums. They have to be the same exact symbol.

Cover one symbol with a full layer of Raamamt - 100% surface coverage.

How much Raammat did that take? 2 sq feet maybe?

Ok, now take half as much of Dynamat Extreme, Hushmat or vmax. cut it in to 2 sq inch pieces, then layer those peices like a checker board over the entire surface area of the second symbol.

The second symbol will actually be more dead than the firsts one. even with less surface coverage. This is because the second one is treated with a product that is far superior.

Now calculate how much you spent on the products.

If you spend less on the second symbol and got better results, how could you possibly still sit back and justify that Symbol 1 is treated with a better or a cheaper product?

Do the test. I am not making this stuff up!

ANT

You're not taking into account separate points of vibration, if it's for one panel what you are saying is right but with a unit with multi point vibration it would still be easier to cover a larger area. Also people use this stuff for heat insulation and to block outside road noise, you have to cover the whole area for that.

 

[Anthony Collova 10+ year member]

Is there some special discount I'm not aware of with SS? I just looked at your site 80 square feet of damplifier is $193.98 which comes out to $2.42 a square foot. The closest size in RAAMat is 62.5 square feet which is $118.96 that comes out to $1.90 a square foot. SS Damp, which is cheaper than Damp Pro is 27% more than RAAMat. So you would be paying almost 2/3 more for SS damplifier than RAAMat. If you only bought 62.5 square feet of SS it would come out to even more money per square foot.

You did the math wrong.

You divided the cost of Damplifier by raamat.

You should have devided raammat by the cost of Damplifier

$1.9/2.42 = .78

WHich meas that Raammat 78% less than Damplifier or Damplifier is 22% more.

So I was off by 2%

You could also look at it like this

100 sq feet of Raamat

$190

2 mils of foil

.35 lbs per sq foot

100 sq feet of Damplifier

$242

4 mils foil

.45 lbs per sq feet

so for the 22% extra you pay for Damplifier you get 25% more adhesive, and 100% more foil in every sq foot.

Make sense now?

 

[dan45hk 10+ year member]

This is an easy one.If one layer of raammat is enough to acheive your goals, this means that 1/2 a layer of a superior product is enough to accomplish your goals.

What you can not seem to get your head around is surface coverage.

You do not have to cover 100% of the sheet metal to kill the vibrations throughout the entire sheet metal surface.

Do this.

Take 2 cymbols from a set of drums. They have to be the same exact symbol.

Cover one symbol with a full layer of Raamamt - 100% surface coverage.

How much Raammat did that take? 2 sq feet maybe?

Ok, now take half as much of Dynamat Extreme, Hushmat or vmax. cut it in to 2 sq inch pieces, then layer those peices like a checker board over the entire surface area of the second symbol.

The second symbol will actually be more dead than the firsts one. even with less surface coverage. This is because the second one is treated with a product that is far superior.

Now calculate how much you spent on the products.

If you spend less on the second symbol and got better results, how could you possibly still sit back and justify that Symbol 1 is treated with a better or a cheaper product?

Do the test. I am not making this stuff up!

ANT

Do you have an actual test of what you are saying, like a video where you show a whole cymbal covered with RAAMat and comparing it to one covered with half of SS. Also you would have to cover half the cymbal with RAAMat too to see if it would be the same as covering the whole thing with RAAMat as I said before there may not be much of a difference.

 

[dan45hk 10+ year member]

You did the math wrong. You divided the cost of Damplifier by raamat.

You should have devided raammat by the cost of Damplifier

$1.9/2.42 = .78

WHich meas that Raammat 78% less than Damplifier or Damplifier is 22% more.

So I was off by 2%

You could also look at it like this

100 sq feet of Raamat

$190

2 mils of foil

.35 lbs per sq foot

100 sq feet of Damplifier

$242

4 mils foil

.45 lbs per sq feet

so for the 22% extra you pay for Damplifier you get 25% more adhesive, and 100% more foil in every sq foot.

Make sense now?

The prices change with the amount you buy, 62.5 sq. feet may be enough for some installs, buying that amount of SS is more expensive per square foot than buying 80 square feet of SS.

 

[Brian_smith06 10+ year member]

i didnt mind using my raammat in my doors but had to use an entire roll of it to achieve what i wanted in my 2 doors on my car. also like ant is saying i had to cover 100% of my doors with the deadener and 3 times over.

the rest of my car i plan to use ss products only. infact ordering enough to finally do my floor in a few weeks or whenever the black foil comes out //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[dan45hk 10+ year member]

I don't know why but it just puts me off seeing a company try to defend every single comment about a competitors product when comparing to your own. I've never seen anything like that before on any forum I've been on. I like Second Skin a lot, I think it is the best overall performing sound dampening material, and it's high quality as I have used it. It just seems unnecessary to do what you're doing.

 

[Anthony Collova 10+ year member]

You're not taking into account separate points of vibration, if it's for one panel what you are saying is right but with a unit with multi point vibration it would still be easier to cover a larger area. Also people use this stuff for heat insulation and to block outside road noise, you have to cover the whole area for that.

And neither are you when you apply an inferoir product to the entire surface areas and assume it is good enough to do everything you need.

This is yet another reason why a superior product with a strong constraint layer damper will out perform something that is not as good.

If you use a constraing layer damper to block road noise you may as well be using a coat hanger. Really.

These are vibration dampers. Not noise barriers. They do help with noise reducetion but only strucutre borne noise. NO airborne noise.

You would need to add about 2.5 lbs per sq foot of a vibration damper in order to decrease the barrier effects of a true noise barrier.

If you want to reduce road noise, use a vibration damper to cover 50-60% of the metal then use the barrier to cover 100% of the surface areas on top of that.

Now, think about this. If 50% coverage of a superior damper out performs 100% coverage of an inferior damper, what woudl 100% coverage of a superior damper do? wow.. Quite a big difference right?

More reason to use the best tool for the job, not jsut the cheapest.

ANT

 

[DonH 5,000+ posts]

I don't know why but it just puts me off seeing a company try to defend every single comment about a competitors product when comparing to your own. I've never seen anything like that before on any forum I've been on. I like Second Skin a lot, I think it is the best overall performing sound dampening material, and it's high quality as I have used it. It just seems unnecessary to do what you're doing.

yup let the product sell itself. it will its a good product we all know that. everyone knows in this world with an honest company you get what you pay for.

 

[NDMstang65 10+ year member]

I don't know why but it just puts me off seeing a company try to defend every single comment about a competitors product when comparing to your own. I've never seen anything like that before on any forum I've been on. I like Second Skin a lot, I think it is the best overall performing sound dampening material, and it's high quality as I have used it. It just seems unnecessary to do what you're doing.

Might want to think about this for a second...

You are gouging him in the ribs and trying to get him to explain everything to the T. He is merely giving you the answers to every single question that you are asking.

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

 

[Anthony Collova 10+ year member]

Do you have an actual test of what you are saying, like a video where you show a whole cymbal covered with RAAMat and comparing it to one covered with half of SS. Also you would have to cover half the cymbal with RAAMat too to see if it would be the same as covering the whole thing with RAAMat as I said before there may not be much of a difference.

Not on video, but I have done it.

I have done a number of tests on our competitors product with the symbols. It is a very easy way to see imediate differences.

ANT

 

[dan45hk 10+ year member]

Might want to think about this for a second...
You are gouging him in the ribs and trying to get him to explain everything to the T. He is merely giving you the answers to every single question that you are asking.

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

He's the one that was bashing RAAMat and he's the one on this forum with a comment to just about everyone that says something good about RAAMat. Do you see Focal come on here and debate what people say about Rainbow speakers?