Questions about upgrading setup…?

[s.abushaikha]

Personally, I believe the Fosgate subs sound cleaner. I have also found that forward facing ports sound better, to me. The reason for the difference is weight is the subs. The Skars are heavier and handle twice the power as the Fosgates, 1600 watts vs 800 watts.

So are you saying with the port being on the side of the box it would sound worse? This is the box, I like how the port is on the side on purpose so that the subs can sit closer next to each other, reducing the length of the box.

 

[shredder1 10+ year member]

I like how the port is on the side View attachment 62305

In a trunk side ported is fine, as long as the port is a port width minimum away from say the strut tower for example. Positioning the enclosure can enhance the output or kill it.
I'd focus on deadening and getting the sound into the cabin for best performance once the enclosure is fully positioned.
What are your actual goals?

 

[Old_Slapper]

So are you saying with the port being on the side of the box it would sound worse? This is the box, I like how the port is on the side on purpose so that the subs can sit closer next to each other, reducing the length of the box.View attachment 62305

As Shredder said, if the box speakers are firing into the trunk, you'll be fine. But, if you fire the speakers into the cab, by dropping the seats or cutting the rear deck, then you would want the port facing the same direction as the speakers.

 

[Buck 5,000+ posts]

You can have 10,000 watts and having no box will produce no sound for subs, so remember that. It's literally physics. No matter how good the subs are, if the box is bad, it will not produce the frequency range required or wanted, literally no matter what. You can have $1 million and if you couldn't buy a box or figure out the math of how to make one, you won't have any bass.

For simple speak, the box is everything. Doesn't matter good subs bad subs whatever, the box will absolutely make or break a system. Ported is usually the best in a trunk, rear firing all if possible, sometimes upfiring just subs is necessary, or upfiring all can work. Both side firing and front firing (ports especially since most pressure/sound comes from there) can cause what seems like phasing issues related to the trunk/car shape. I'm not sure if you can model that or not with more advanced software, but if you're like most people, doing front firing or side firing is a gamble sometimes unless you know already it works in your specific vehicle well. This comes from designing them, hearing them installed and having problems. Side firing ports in trunks seemed to work well most of the time, but sometimes it didn't and I wasn't sure why.

 

[shredder1 10+ year member]

Low Low frequencies defeat enclosure placement mostly, the wavelengths and amplitude in a closed space just cause chaos. Cabin size factors even more IF you can get the output into the cabin, That said... the roaring 40's and 50's are the beats that anchor most music. And most cabins reward a prefab type tuning with output. With those 40's-50's placement becomes a thing as the wavelength shortens, once again its best to get it directly into the cabin but most cabin frequencies match that 40-50 range so tuning there means output even so. Prefabs knock hard but don't sub for example. I prefer a minimum airspace tuned just under prefab tuning and overpowered for results I like.

 

[Buck 5,000+ posts]

Low Low frequencies defeat enclosure placement mostly, the wavelengths and amplitude in a closed space just cause chaos. Cabin size factors even more IF you can get the output into the cabin, That said... the roaring 40's and 50's are the beats that anchor most music. And most cabins reward a prefab type tuning with output. With those 40's-50's placement becomes a thing as the wavelength shortens, once again its best to get it directly into the cabin but most cabin frequencies match that 40-50 range so tuning there means output even so. Prefabs knock hard but don't sub for example. I prefer a minimum airspace tuned just under prefab tuning and overpowered for results I like.

I just always look at everything from the view of an organ pipe:

Distance is tuning. A transmission line type enclosure is based on the quarter wave that is the same as organ pipes that have one open end and one closed end. You can look at a whole vehicle this way, or the distance in between radiating surfaces, and how the distance changes phasing, like subwoofer distance from port opening. It happens in 3-D, but looking at it from a 2-d perspective can help with basic understanding and calculations. For example, you can look at the length of your whole cabin as the internal 1/4 length of the transmission line enclosure or of an organ pipe. Front firing in a trunk without sealing off for a ported enclosure can make the air in between the outside of the box and the inner trunk walls into its own enclosure that can be unintentionally "tuned" to cancel out wanted frequencies from your box. Visualization of sound in pipes or ports or t-lines, think like 1/4 wave tuning and standing waves:

Lower frequency:

Higher frequency:

ISVR - Institute of Sound and Vibration Research

 

[shredder1 10+ year member]

I just always look at everything from the view of an organ pipe:

View attachment 62325

Distance is tuning. A transmission line type enclosure is based on the quarter wave that is the same as organ pipes that have one open end and one closed end. You can look at a whole vehicle this way, or the distance in between radiating surfaces, and how the distance changes phasing, like subwoofer distance from port opening. It happens in 3-D, but looking at it from a 2-d perspective can help with basic understanding and calculations. For example, you can look at the length of your whole cabin as the internal 1/4 length of the transmission line enclosure or of an organ pipe. Front firing in a trunk without sealing off for a ported enclosure can make the air in between the outside of the box and the inner trunk walls into its own enclosure that can be unintentionally "tuned" to cancel out wanted frequencies from your box. Visualization of sound in pipes or ports or t-lines, think like 1/4 wave tuning and standing waves:

Exactly, sage advice. Even a basic sealed setup can benefit from considering cabin size, loading and vehicle integrity.
I remember the low power-hi efficiency days when 2K was a TON. Now a 2K setup is hi's thru midbass without staging. I suppose its progress they say.
Once again... enclosure makes or breaks every system but YOU know that... haha

 

[Old_Slapper]

That reminds me of how I got into designing sound systems for night clubs, way back in the early 2000's. I was at a club and the owner was showing me the sound system because he wanted me to be a backup DJ. While the music was playing, I noticed a sub in the corner firing towards the dance floor. I turned the sub to face the corner, and the bass started hitting hard. The owner looked at me and asked what I did. I mentioned to him how subwoofers work and from there I was asked to set up about 8 night clubs. To best explain it, I asked him if he noticed how he can hear more bass off the dance floor than on the dance floor. He got the picture after that.

 

[nauc 10+ year member]

about box types... https://jlaudio.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/204374140-Enclosure-Type-Performance-Comparison



ported usually plays louder overall, sealed usually goes lower (frequencies)

top sql subs.. Fi, SunDown, Adire Brahma, JL W7, SQL

i use Fi for home audio. handmade in the US, solid af build

 

[shredder1 10+ year member]

Anyone who advocates for sealed over a properly designed enclosure is someone who probably had a failure somewhere in their audio journey. DIYMA is jammed and overflowing with sealed box guys that just haven't gotten it right imho. And those guys happen to be the most vocal about what should be a moot point. I'll readvise and say enclosure is... very important at least... some say its everything. Being unable to localize the bass is a crossover/staging function yes but the foundation is clean bass (if there is such a thing). I've been into this hobby for a long time and I've yet to hear butterfly wings beating in my bass. Tune low /w/ low delay and no peak for sq. Sometimes its a single or maybe dual drivers but don't pigeonhole results into sealed vs ported. Some of my best results are none of the above. Different gear means many possibilities. Understand the result BEFORE installation and enjoy.

 

[spokey9 5,000+ posts]

Anyone who advocates for sealed over a properly designed enclosure is someone who probably had a failure somewhere in their audio journey.

There's nothing wrong with a sealed box...you get a flatter response and you don't really need a ssf...not everyone is looking for more output that a ported box provides

 

[shredder1 10+ year member]

There's nothing wrong with a sealed box...you get a flatter response and you don't really need a ssf...not everyone is looking for more output that a ported box provides

I understand your point, I did list ways to get that flatter response without peakiness. I also stated none of the above. Some of the best sq setups I've been involved in were 4th order enclosures.

Modeling and real world testing with low ebp subs made me conclude that sizing the sealed side properly to peak in the cabin where you want it coupled with ratio to control peakiness yields a sealed type response with the benefit of greater output, no accuracy detriment and the added benefit of direct to cabin output at times.

All that said, there's more to it than that. Vehicle, location, install and goals all determine the approach to take.

 

[Eggs 5,000+ posts]

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[Jimi77 Premium Member]

Anyone who advocates for sealed over a properly designed enclosure is someone who probably had a failure somewhere in their audio journey. DIYMA is jammed and overflowing with sealed box guys that just haven't gotten it right imho. And those guys happen to be the most vocal about what should be a moot point. I'll readvise and say enclosure is... very important at least... some say its everything. Being unable to localize the bass is a crossover/staging function yes but the foundation is clean bass (if there is such a thing). I've been into this hobby for a long time and I've yet to hear butterfly wings beating in my bass. Tune low /w/ low delay and no peak for sq. Sometimes its a single or maybe dual drivers but don't pigeonhole results into sealed vs ported. Some of my best results are none of the above. Different gear means many possibilities. Understand the result BEFORE installation and enjoy.

Personally, I'm a sealed guy. With the natural roll-off of a sealed enclosure and cabin gain, there is no need to port to get flattish response down 20hz. ~300-500wrms and a sealed 10-12" sub is plenty to keep up with the majority of front stages. Even when I was running ID waveguides a 10" Brahma was able to keep up with my front stage. OTOH, since most people enjoy exaggerated subbass, almost everybody should be porting. And if you are porting the enclosure becomes way more important. Anytime I design a system, I always start with the enclosure and then start looking for subs that work in that enclosure not the other way around.

 

[s.abushaikha]

about box types... https://jlaudio.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/204374140-Enclosure-Type-Performance-Comparison



ported usually plays louder overall, sealed usually goes lower (frequencies)

top sql subs.. Fi, SunDown, Adire Brahma, JL W7, SQL

i use Fi for home audio. handmade in the US, solid af build

This is what gets me, half the internet claims sealed play lower, and half say ported play lower. Lows are important to me, and so is quality, yet majority of people who do prioritize those still pick ported over sealed. Only people who listen to classical or country, appear to be picking sealed.