Newbie Questions

[Coach 10+ year member]

im not really a newbie, I've had some decent in the past. but i've never truly took the time to learn the basic. so im going to try to do some true research before putting together my next system and have decided to make a thread, to ask questions along the way

Ive always had sealed enclosures so this time I definitely want to do ported.... space for the system will be my biggest obstacle. so here goes my 1st newb question....

follow me:

I had 2 12s... i want next system to be louder and more "boomyer"

To my understanding (all things remaining the same) 2 -12 are better than 1 15. (more cone area logic)

I want 2 15s but dont have the space to truly give them what they're recommend to have...

hypothetically: if i have a box that is ported 4cuft tuned to 32hz likely idea for 1 15 what would be disadvantage to having a 2nd 15 into that box?

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[hispls 5,000+ posts]

im not really a newbie, I've had some decent in the past. but i've never truly took the time to learn the basic. so im going to try to do some true research before putting together my next system and have decided to make a thread, to ask questions along the way
Ive always had sealed enclosures so this time I definitely want to do ported.... space for the system will be my biggest obstacle. so here goes my 1st newb question....

follow me:

I had 2 12s... i want next system to be louder and more "boomyer"

To my understanding (all things remaining the same) 2 -12 are better than 1 15. (more cone area logic)

I want 2 15s but dont have the space to truly give them what they're recommend to have...

hypothetically: if i have a box that is ported 4cuft tuned to 32hz likely idea for 1 15 what would be disadvantage to having a 2nd 15 into that box?

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that whatever pair of 12's you had were big box store brands at best, in which case a higher end single 12 in a properly designed and constructed box would be leaps and bounds better.

That said, I'm assuming you're not going to say "money is no object" so for the most part one 300$ sub will outperform two 150$ subs, ditto for 600 and 300 respectively. Your big limitation comes with power handling where more subs = more coils to hold the heat, but unless you plan to get into costly electrical upgrades this should be a non-issue.

Lastly trying to shoehorn too much cone area into too small space is a recipe for underwhelming performance. Generally you will see limited low end extension (or bandwidth) and poor efficiency.

 

[UsAmpsFreak]

im not really a newbie, I've had some decent in the past. but i've never truly took the time to learn the basic. so im going to try to do some true research before putting together my next system and have decided to make a thread, to ask questions along the way
Ive always had sealed enclosures so this time I definitely want to do ported.... space for the system will be my biggest obstacle. so here goes my 1st newb question....

follow me:

I had 2 12s... i want next system to be louder and more "boomyer"

To my understanding (all things remaining the same) 2 -12 are better than 1 15. (more cone area logic)

I want 2 15s but dont have the space to truly give them what they're recommend to have...

hypothetically: if i have a box that is ported 4cuft tuned to 32hz likely idea for 1 15 what would be disadvantage to having a 2nd 15 into that box?

The disadvantage is that by adding a 2nd 15 in that space, you will drastically reduce how "low" the woofer is capable of going. 1 15 in that box would actually sound better than having 2, while not as loud, it would sound substantially better. When i say not as loud, i'm not meaning hugely, the difference in output will all things constant between 1 woofer or 2 is usually in the 3db range. Which is not that huge of a difference. I'd like to know which 12's you had, and what amp was on them. More than likely, simply buying better 12's with the proper amp, and the biggest thing is a good box, would probably make significant improvements and give you what you're looking for. Give me more detail on what you were running and i and many others on here will give you their 2 cents on what direction would best fit your needs to accomplish what you're looking for.

 

[Coach 10+ year member]

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that whatever pair of 12's you had were big box store brands at best, in which case a higher end single 12 in a properly designed and constructed box would be leaps and bounds better.
That said, I'm assuming you're not going to say "money is no object" so for the most part one 300$ sub will outperform two 150$ subs, ditto for 600 and 300 respectively. Your big limitation comes with power handling where more subs = more coils to hold the heat, but unless you plan to get into costly electrical upgrades this should be a non-issue.

Lastly trying to shoehorn too much cone area into too small space is a recipe for underwhelming performance. Generally you will see limited low end extension (or bandwidth) and poor efficiency.

The disadvantage is that by adding a 2nd 15 in that space, you will drastically reduce how "low" the woofer is capable of going. 1 15 in that box would actually sound better than having 2, while not as loud, it would sound substantially better. When i say not as loud, i'm not meaning hugely, the difference in output will all things constant between 1 woofer or 2 is usually in the 3db range. Which is not that huge of a difference. I'd like to know which 12's you had, and what amp was on them. More than likely, simply buying better 12's with the proper amp, and the biggest thing is a good box, would probably make significant improvements and give you what you're looking for. Give me more detail on what you were running and i and many others on here will give you their 2 cents on what direction would best fit your needs to accomplish what you're looking for.

u guys might think i have old equipment i bought brand new equipment in 2007 and forgot i had by leaving it in the attic until the end of 2014, but anyway 2 12 directed sx12d4 on D2400 @ 1ohm.... box was custom built but not to specs! it was build to cosmetic design against the designers recommendations (like i said didnt learn the basics).

 

[Coach 10+ year member]

i want to get the most for my money and i think i want to go soundquebed.... and heres my dilemma

I definitely have the space for 1 12 hds or hdc (probably just enough for 1 15)....but HDC cost nearly twice the HDS

so i feel liked i'd be getting more by buying 2 HDS but i dont want to go from 2 12 to 1 and expect to be louder. 1 15 doesnt have the cone area...so i "think" i want 2 15 hds

 

[hispls 5,000+ posts]

i want to get the most for my money and i think i want to go soundquebed.... and heres my dilemma
I definitely have the space for 1 12 hds or hdc (probably just enough for 1 15)....but HDC cost nearly twice the HDS

so i feel liked i'd be getting more by buying 2 HDS but i dont want to go from 2 12 to 1 and expect to be louder. 1 15 doesnt have the cone area...so i "think" i want 2 15 hds

One HDC in 4 cube with proper port area and length (use the recommendations on their site) would be far superior. HDC is a big step up from HDS. The 30% more cone area of a pair of 12's does not make up for the low quality of the cheaper line IMO.

You can want a pair of 15's but if you don't have 8-10 cubic feet net for a box you'd do better with less cone area.

 

[Coach 10+ year member]

Although im down on space, i would plan on powering them properly. So logically how can 12" to 15" of cone on 1200w(hds) or 1500w (hdc) be better than 30" on 2400w?

While still tuning the box to the based on its true volume

Not trying to be an A-hole i really want to maximize any way i can.

PS soundqubed doesnt list recommended specs on there site unless i missed them...

 

[Coach 10+ year member]

Also i want to add another assumption...

HDS= Heavy Duty Street = "street", where sound is primary= Better SQ?

HDC= Heavy Duty Competition = competition, where Db wins = more about being loud and withstand power than quality better spl?

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

Although im down on space, i would plan on powering them properly. So logically how can 12" to 15" of cone on 1200w(hds) or 1500w (hdc) be better than 30" on 2400w?While still tuning the box to the based on its true volume

Not trying to be an A-hole i really want to maximize any way i can.

PS soundqubed doesnt list recommended specs on there site unless i missed them...

area of a round 12 inch diameter = 113 Two is 226

A 15 inch long diameter area = 176.25

Thats more in the lines of how area actually works. 15+ 15 does not = 30 man. Plus subs being strangled in a small space would kill your output and sound quality. The airspace in an enclosure acts like a spring and how much cone area you have, you'll need proper amounts of airspace to match it or else you'll just fk up your whole setup. There's a reason why manufacturers list airspace. Space makes bass, thats an indisputable rule of audio.

PS dont get caught up in the names. Its just lines of subs. You want to pay attention to the build quality and TS parameters.

 

[Coach 10+ year member]

MAXIMUM i may be able to squeeze before dispacement 4cu (maybe 5 with odd shape box taking spare wheel well) and thats with building the box inside of the trunk...

Prices based from SQ black friday ad

(20% off) 2 HDS315 d2 = $272 2400w rms

(10% off) 1 HDC315 d2 = $269 1500w rms

(10% off) 2 HDS312 d2 = $286 2400w rms

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/confused.gif.e820e0216602db4765798ac39d28caa9.gif not sure whats optimum for my application

 

[hispls 5,000+ posts]

Although im down on space, i would plan on powering them properly. So logically how can 12" to 15" of cone on 1200w(hds) or 1500w (hdc) be better than 30" on 2400w?While still tuning the box to the based on its true volume

Not trying to be an A-hole i really want to maximize any way i can.

PS soundqubed doesnt list recommended specs on there site unless i missed them...

Also i want to add another assumption...
HDS= Heavy Duty Street = "street", where sound is primary= Better SQ?

HDC= Heavy Duty Competition = competition, where Db wins = more about being loud and withstand power than quality better spl?

Area of a circle is Pi*r^2 And you measure from center of surround to center of surround, the frame doesn't count nor does that part of the surround that isn't "live".

Box Sizes and Tuning

Or just buy the cheapest subs you can find, cram as many as you can into your car then come back and tell us how that plays out for you.

 

[Coach 10+ year member]

Thanks for that link....i didnt realize i was that far off box size wize.... i was thinking "ehhh, 1 15 needs 3cu, I can lose all trunk space and get 5cu and just short them .5cu each feed them each 200w less than rms rating and be ok, not knowing soundqubed recommends 9cu for 2 15s... I wasnt being an *** just didnt have anything to go off of...

from u guys experience do 2 12s ported give SIGNIFICANTLY more out put that the same subs in a sealed box?

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

[quote name='Coach']MAXIMUM i may be able to squeeze before dispacement 4cu (maybe 5 with odd shape box taking spare wheel well) and thats with building the box inside of the trunk...

Prices based from SQ black friday ad

(20% off) 2 HDS315 d2 = $272 2400w rms

(10% off) 1 HDC315 d2 = $269 1500w rms

(10% off) 2 HDS312 d2 = $286 2400w rms


not sure whats optimum for my application[/QUOTE]

4 cubic feet before displacement is barely anything. You'll need to go with a single 15 and a sonotube. Might need to get some other woofer that works better in less space because soundqubed woofers need their airspace. You dont give subs their airspace or just plan on giving the bare minimal, its a recipe for utter disappointment every time. I'd say hit @CSCStang for a design for two hds208s in a T line. It'll destroy your single 15 in a small ported any day of the week. Ridiculous output with that enclosure.

 

[Massive spl]

Those direct sx woofers arnt to bad. If you already have those run them.

 

[Coach 10+ year member]

[quote name='Jeffdachef']4 cubic feet before displacement is barely anything. You'll need to go with a single 15 and a sonotube. Might need to get some other woofer that works better in less space because soundqubed woofers need their airspace. You dont give subs their airspace or just plan on giving the bare minimal, its a recipe for utter disappointment every time. I'd say hit @CSCStang for a design for two hds208s in a T line. It'll destroy your single 15 in a small ported any day of the week. Ridiculous output with that enclosure.[/QUOTE]

like i said Im an idiot some times and should know better but i dont.. i seriously never have 8s any thought i have the hardest time time understand the basics...

to me i'm thinking basic mathmatics... im a numbers guy lol

would possibly consider 4 8s.....



so based on me having 4 cubic ft.... is 3 10s my winning combination?

4 x 8" = 36" ; Area 208

2 x 12 = 24; area 226.2

3 x 10 = 30" ; Area 235.62

2 x 15 = 30; Area 353.42

2 x 12 = 24; area 226.2


[quote name='Massive spl']Those direct sx woofers arnt to bad. If you already have those run them.[/QUOTE]

still have them in my car now, one is seized. (voice coil is not burned, as far as i can see)...I really was content with them 2 of them they are on approx: net 1.75 cu (sealed) and i know it was less than recommended for cosmetic reasons... sound pretty good, really clean bass, i just want more echo boom.... had one not blow I would not serious be look for a new set up