Best subs for metal music

[hispls 5,000+ posts]

I can get the Type R for $95 each and the Kicker Solo Classics for $75 each. Haha, this is why I am looking into it so much. So I have no problem paying $40 more if the Alpine are better...I just always thought Kicker were the best (which apparently isnt true). So cost isn't really a factor, I just want to know which you guys think will be best for my needs.

Type Argh is solid for that price new. Worth the extra 40$ over the kickers every day of the week

 

[UnderFire 10+ year member]

I can get the Type R for $95 each and the Kicker Solo Classics for $75 each. Haha, this is why I am looking into it so much. So I have no problem paying $40 more if the Alpine are better...I just always thought Kicker were the best (which apparently isnt true). So cost isn't really a factor, I just want to know which you guys think will be best for my needs.

That is a great price on the Type R, I paid that much for a used one, and it was a great deal.

 

[martiandancer31 10+ year member]

I have a 2001 Ford Taurus and a great employee accomodation from Kicker since I work at Best Buy. I listen to mostly metal music so I was told that 10" subs would be the best for me because they are fasters (for double bass, etc). Is this true? and are their any Kicker subs I should be looking at?

oh dear GOODNESS. there is no such thing as a "fast" or a "slow" sub. The sub tracks the input signal. If, however, you put it in a BOX that causes either a high group delay at certain frequencies (i usually shoot for

Do yourself a favor and do not go with 10's simply because you were mis-informed by someone that they were "faster" than 12's. Plug the t/s params of the sub you are going to buy into winISD (which is free) and play around until you get a design with good response. I'd suggest sealed as it's much easier to get it right and less likely to sound "boomy" unless your box is way too small.

sorry for the rant, I just get pissed when a sub is described as "fast" or "slow" (not directed to you, because it sounds like somebody told you that). Heck, if you have the space, go with an 18 or 21 - they'll be just as good for metal as a 10 or 12 as long as they're put in the correct box.

for the record, i mainly listen to metal - from hair metal to melodic death metal to neo-classical power metal to metallica.....etc. I used to use a 15" tc3000 and it sounded fantastic. That's because I put it in the correctly sized box, eq'd it, built the box exceptionally hefty, and deadened the vehicle.

-martian

 

[zako 10+ year member]

^ I mostly agree. If you want to compare apples to apples of subwoofer world (e.g. 10 inch Alpine Type-R vs 12 inch Alpine Type R of the same generation) they should have quite similar sonic signature with the exception that the bigger driver will perhaps play lower bass with a little more authority, and the small driver will play midbass a little better. One 10 inch will be a lot less sensitive though.

There is a lot of confusion about fast vs slow bass on the internet. It had been proven many times that a single 12 inch subwoofer can be great for SQ, which includes "fast bass", transient response, etc. There are sometimes good reasons to go with 10 inch subwoofers but playing metal music, by itself, shouldn't be the reason to buy 2 10 inch subs.

The thing that I disagree about is that subwoofer box alone will not determine subwoofers transient response behavior. Some subs are just sloppy, and its conceivable that they will have below average transient response even in a box that's perfect for them.

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

When a sub reproduces a 40hz note (for example), that means it is cycling 40 times per second. If another sub reproduced that 40hz note 'slower' or 'faster' that would mean its no longer cycling 40 times per second, and would be playing a completely different frequency, which is obviously not the case. Point being, calling subs faster or slower is indeed a poor description of the differences in group delay between setups.

What a few people here have said is 100% correct, the enclosure design (alignment mostly) is key to getting your system to track well with the transient nature of the material being reproduced. Im not a Kicker fan much these days, and agree their designs tend to revolve around output more than SQ, but even an L7 can be made to sound decent in the right box. Problem with the square cones is (or, one of their problems), they require a larger enclosure than a comparable round sub. Kicker neglects to mention this when suggesting their square coned subs have more cone area than their round counterparts. They want us to believe you get that added cone area with no downside, which is simply untrue.

 

[THATpurpleKUSH 5,000+ posts]

Look into the Infinity Reference 1262w, you can get them for $38ea on the jbl/infinity/harmon accomodations. Put them in a proper built box, I used to have a pair and they had excellent sq.

 

[zako 10+ year member]

When a sub reproduces a 40hz note (for example), that means it is cycling 40 times per second. If another sub reproduced that 40hz note 'slower' or 'faster' that would mean its no longer cycling 40 times per second, and would be playing a completely different frequency, which is obviously not the case. Point being, calling subs faster or slower is indeed a poor description of the differences in group delay between setups.

I have been doing a lot of research online about it, and it seem pretty confusing. I could be wrong on this, but it seems like "fast" bass is bass music with a lot of transients, quick transitions from one bass note to another. In other words, a subwoofer that plays "fast bass" well, is the one that has good transient response. And transient response is defined roughly how fast a speaker will respond to sudden one time impulses, which includes the complete time domain response to such an impulse, which includes, both the start time and end time. Based on this, a "fast" subwoofer should basically play more refined bass, with sharp, well defined edges between notes, while the "slow" subwoofer will sound a little more "washed out", even when it may have a perfectly good frequency response in the considered frequency range. There does not seem a good coherent agreement on whether which specs will suggest that a subwoofer has good transient response. Box size seems important. Inductance seems important. There is also some evidence that larger diameter cones seem to have a slower decay time in their transient response, so big vs small subwoofers and fast bass is not completely a myth. Finally, box alignment is important. Subwoofers Q (usually computed by box modeling software) depends on box size, and Q of 0.707 or lower is considered best for transient response (essentially bigger box), but such Q alignment may reduce power handling at lower frequencies.

If you want to waste a couple of hours of your time, find the "fast vs slow bass" threads on DIYMA. There is a lot of noise there, but some posts are interesting.

 

[wickedwitt 10+ year member]

Kicker is a lot of hype with the exception of the CVX, solo x and the older round solo-barics. The kickers get loud, but thats about it. I would go with a more SQ oriented brand if you want to have some very articulated bass kicks. The enclosure will have a lot to do with it but it will still help to have a good subwoofer to be the foundation of it all

I'm rather happy with my Solo X's ability to keep up with metal. They are much more musical than my L7s were. On that note, don't do L7s for rock. They get loud, they don't sound good doing it.

CVX is the L7s motor in a lighter, round cone. Would be the way to go for you, considering your Best Buy 80%ish discount.

 

[wickedwitt 10+ year member]

Kickers not that good. There amps where OK prior to the ZX line, they are decent but better can be found for less. The Warhorse is a joke.]/b] But if you can get their stuff at cost I would do CVXs like everybody else said. But can you get Alpine at cost also? The Type R is a much better sub

 

I was unaware. Please enlighten me, as I am about to purchase two. Oh and can I have some mono block suggestions in the 8k RMS range with DSP? It will match my mids/highs amp. Thanks

 

[zako 10+ year member]

Look into the Infinity Reference 1262w, you can get them for $38ea on the jbl/infinity/harmon accomodations. Put them in a proper built box, I used to have a pair and they had excellent sq.

One thing that stopped me from buying Infinity References was that box modeling software recommended me somewhat big sealed box volumes for them. This suggests they can sound fine in IB or free air use (and some people tried this), but in sealed box they may roll off too early and with less than ideal transient response. So I skipped them and looked into Infinity Kappa subwoofers (100.9w and 120.9w), and they seem pretty awesome. Recommended box size for 120.9w is 1.7cu ft and 1.1cu ft for 2ohm and 4ohm mode respectively (it has switchable impedance) which is a lot more reasonable for car use. I have one right now in a 1.15 cu ft box stuffed with polyfill running at 2ohms. Wanna try running it in 4ohm mode when I get a better amplifier. I am still breaking it in, but I can't complain much about it, and amazon price was something like $140 shipped for 120.9w. Good value imo.

PS: I was referring to 12 inch Infinity References. 10 inch ones may work best in box that's more than small enough for car use.

 

[wickedwitt 10+ year member]

If you want to waste a couple of hours of your time, find the "fast vs slow bass" threads on DIYMA. There is a lot of noise there, but some posts are interesting.

I prefer slow bass, it seems to carry further //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/nerd.gif.c6fa51ddf7ff75f1c0371fbc648f70ae.gif

 

[LosIsATool 5,000+ posts]

I was unaware. Please enlighten me, as I am about to purchase two. Oh and can I have some mono block suggestions in the 8k RMS range with DSP? It will match my mids/highs amp. Thanks

About what? The made in China ZX amps or the overpriced/overhyped Warhorse.. Thank about it.

Soundigital, DD, DC, AQ20, 2 Sundown 4500s strapped, 2 Crescendo 5500s strapped can all make more power and hold up better on higher voltage then a Warhorse.

If you need a 2ohm load the ZX is budget freindly but you can strap to BC3500s and make much more power for the same price. And your getting a strong Korean board. The lower power ZX amps are good for the price and put out but the 1500 and up stuff is not and barily do rated below 14.4

 

[destined2race 10+ year member]

Remember, I am looking for something I can feel but that is also very accurate for double-bass stuff. I want it to get nice and loud, but I don't need it to be douchebag loud.

So 95% of the people on here with louder stereos than what you want are douchebags eh? good way to get help.

 

[LosIsATool 5,000+ posts]

there is a difference between having DB bass and being a DB with it

 

[kraudio12 10+ year member]

im just thrown this out here but best buy still sells alpine if i am right i mean why not go with a type x i would think that to be your best bet for a sq level sub outta all the mainstream but thats just my 2 cents or even if you don't wanna spend the money on a type x i would say a type r would have more sq then anything in the kicker line up