Best subs for metal music

[kraudio12 10+ year member]

Look into the Infinity Reference 1262w, you can get them for $38ea on the jbl/infinity/harmon accomodations. Put them in a proper built box, I used to have a pair and they had excellent sq.

^^ this cant beat that and possible go with a total Q 12 maybe its all up to your choice we are all just trying to throw helpful information out there for you to help you deceide which would be best for you

 

[destined2race 10+ year member]

there is a difference between having DB bass and being a DB with it

go back and read his op, then the DB post, and tell me thats what he meant... either way im not here to troll just seemed brash for trying to get help

 

[MotleyDeth366 10+ year member]

Dude, I think you ARE trolling. Sorry to offend or whatever. I just meant that I don't need 18" subs that are going to rattle my whole car so people can hear me two blocks away.

 

[THATpurpleKUSH 5,000+ posts]

One thing that stopped me from buying Infinity References was that box modeling software recommended me somewhat big sealed box volumes for them. This suggests they can sound fine in IB or free air use (and some people tried this), but in sealed box they may roll off too early and with less than ideal transient response. So I skipped them and looked into Infinity Kappa subwoofers (100.9w and 120.9w), and they seem pretty awesome. Recommended box size for 120.9w is 1.7cu ft and 1.1cu ft for 2ohm and 4ohm mode respectively (it has switchable impedance) which is a lot more reasonable for car use. I have one right now in a 1.15 cu ft box stuffed with polyfill running at 2ohms. Wanna try running it in 4ohm mode when I get a better amplifier. I am still breaking it in, but I can't complain much about it, and amazon price was something like $140 shipped for 120.9w. Good value imo.
PS: I was referring to 12 inch Infinity References. 10 inch ones may work best in box that's more than small enough for car use.

**** what the box software says, its not even right most of the time. Put the references in 1.25 sealed with some polyfill and they did great. I ran mine off 375wrms each. I wish I knew about ported boxes when I had them, the recommended box is 2 cu/ft tuned to around 30hz iirc. I bet they would sound really good ported. The qts it too low for IB/free air iirc, but they will do pretty good in a 4th order.

 

[wickedwitt 10+ year member]

About what? The made in China ZX amps or the overpriced/overhyped Warhorse.. Thank about it. Soundigital, DD, DC, AQ20, 2 Sundown 4500s strapped, 2 Crescendo 5500s strapped can all make more power and hold up better on higher voltage then a Warhorse.

If you need a 2ohm load the ZX is budget freindly but you can strap to BC3500s and make much more power for the same price. And your getting a strong Korean board. The lower power ZX amps are good for the price and put out but the 1500 and up stuff is not and barily do rated below 14.4

Tried to bold the warhorse part, I failed. I have no desire to have ZX amps. I can get 2 Warhorses for the Price of anything making the power of 1. I don't care if they can hold up better on 17v or not, I will always be at 14.1 (13.8 at the amp) and I will always be 2ohm because my stuff is daily, I don't play this low ohm game. Now, what amps would you prefer over that?

 

[wickedwitt 10+ year member]

Dude, I think you ARE trolling. Sorry to offend or whatever. I just meant that I don't need 18" subs that are going to rattle my whole car so people can hear me two blocks away.

I have 2 12's and it rattles my whole truck and I can be heard from two miles away. Your definition of loud, and the definition of loud for most members here seems to vary greatly. Get what you can get for as cheap as you can, then get a decent box and I think you'll be satisfied.

Seriously, why can't the quick quote thing add it to your first post like it's supposed to?

 

[LosIsATool 5,000+ posts]

Tried to bold the warhorse part, I failed. I have no desire to have ZX amps. I can get 2 Warhorses for the Price of anything making the power of 1. I don't care if they can hold up better on 17v or not, I will always be at 14.1 (13.8 at the amp) and I will always be 2ohm because my stuff is daily, I don't play this low ohm game. Now, what amps would you prefer over that?

If you have it like that go with them.. If it was 1 Warhorse I would do two better 5Ks strapped to get a 2 ohm load

 

[wickedwitt 10+ year member]

If you have it like that go with them.. If it was 1 Warhorse I would do two better 5Ks strapped to get a 2 ohm load

That's essentially what a Warhorse is, but I digress. Thanks for the input.

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

I have been doing a lot of research online about it, and it seem pretty confusing. I could be wrong on this, but it seems like "fast" bass is bass music with a lot of transients, quick transitions from one bass note to another. In other words, a subwoofer that plays "fast bass" well, is the one that has good transient response. And transient response is defined roughly how fast a speaker will respond to sudden one time impulses, which includes the complete time domain response to such an impulse, which includes, both the start time and end time. Based on this, a "fast" subwoofer should basically play more refined bass, with sharp, well defined edges between notes, while the "slow" subwoofer will sound a little more "washed out", even when it may have a perfectly good frequency response in the considered frequency range. There does not seem a good coherent agreement on whether which specs will suggest that a subwoofer has good transient response. Box size seems important. Inductance seems important. There is also some evidence that larger diameter cones seem to have a slower decay time in their transient response, so big vs small subwoofers and fast bass is not completely a myth. Finally, box alignment is important. Subwoofers Q (usually computed by box modeling software) depends on box size, and Q of 0.707 or lower is considered best for transient response (essentially bigger box), but such Q alignment may reduce power handling at lower frequencies.
If you want to waste a couple of hours of your time, find the "fast vs slow bass" threads on DIYMA. There is a lot of noise there, but some posts are interesting.

For a speaker spec to address what you are referring to, inductance is probably the biggest factor. But over all, box alignment plays the biggest role.

Cone diameter affecting this is indeed a myth. Again, inductance affects it much more than mms does, and there isn't even any guarantee that a larger diameter cone has more moving mass than a smaller cone from another make/model speaker. Secondly, even if you were to buy into the whole moving mass = slower transient response idea, a larger diameter speaker means it wont require as much excursion to achieve the same output potential. Therefore, less excursion from the larger cone means even if it had more moving mass, it doesn't have to move as fast as the smaller coned sub. For example, a lot of people think a 10" sub is lighter than an 18, so common sense would tell us it has better transient response. But that 10 would have to move more than 3 times as far (excursion) to reach the same output level at the 18, so does its lighter cone factor in more than its need for 3 times as much acceleration? No. Unless the 18 has 3 times as heavy of a cone/suspension, which it wont.

If you still dont believe me, look into some home/pro audio drivers. There are plenty of full-range speakers that are 12" or 15" diameter.

 

[FtheNutHuggers]

This is funny.

 

[zako 10+ year member]

Based on what I have read so far on this topic, it seems like inductance is being responsible for rise time in the transient response, with other things (mms, woofer size, etc) are responsible for decay time. But clearly, a 12 inch subwoofer should be good for SQ. There are tons of really good SQ setups with 12 inch subwoofers, Image Dynamics IDQ and JL W6 being the most popular. In fact, it seems like the currently "hot" SQ subwoofer to have is multiple 15 inch subs in IB, proving that woofer size alone will not determine SQ. It's still my belief that most of quality of bass depends on the mid bass/mid drivers up front. Without good midbass coming from the front, the most music just won't sound that good no matter how good subwoofer is. Human ear is not that sensitive to distortions and bad transients in deeper bass as well as we can hear flaws in midbass.

I have pretty much decided that whenever I buy my next sub, I'll get Peerless XXLS, either two 10" or one 12 inch. It has extremely low moving mass and high sensitivity, very low inductance, but only 12mm xmax (seems enough for sedan SQ IMO). If it doesn't work out well in car, I'll throw it into my HT in box with passive radiators.

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

Its true that for a true SQ setup, the front stage (midbass, midrange, treble) are the key factors. In an ideal setup, the subbass is only responsible for reinforcing the front stage, where as the most popular belief seems to be to start with the substage, and then model the front stage around this. This is backwards thinking.

 

[MotleyDeth366 10+ year member]

I am getting Kicker speakers for both the front doors and the back above the seats. They are 2-way KS Series 6x8 Coax. I originally bought Pioneer 3-ways from Best Buy, but the Kicker are only about $5 more and I figured they will be better anyway.

So that'll be my rig up front. Does KS 2-ways + Alpine 10" Type R = good setup?

 

[wenn_du_weinst 10+ year member]

different subs DO have different speeds, it has to do with the 1/100th of a second it takes to respond to a note. A lot of sq subs will make you hate how slow and unresponsive your spl subs are.

 

[LosIsATool 5,000+ posts]

I am getting Kicker speakers for both the front doors and the back above the seats. They are 2-way KS Series 6x8 Coax. I originally bought Pioneer 3-ways from Best Buy, but the Kicker are only about $5 more and I figured they will be better anyway.
So that'll be my rig up front. Does KS 2-ways + Alpine 10" Type R = good setup?

I would get componets for the front and leave the rear empty. If you have a good front stage you wont hear the rear at all. It also gives a whole in the back for sub sound to come through