Why Run A Ground Wire From The Battery to the amp?

[Pl8er 5,000+ posts]

I agree, this idiot makes only the 2nd one here to go on my ignore list.
I tried, and I can't help him any more. I just pity the poor equipment he is going to break

How do you do ignore? Because I would love that for about 40% of the members LOL

 

[path2spl 10+ year member]

just dont post where they do lol

 

[lilmaniac2 5,000+ posts]

click there user name, view there profile and look on the upper right side of there profile it wil say

Add dumbass to your ignore list

 

[Pl8er 5,000+ posts]

click there user name, view there profile and look on the upper right side of there profile it wil say
Add dumbass to your ignore list

Well holy shit...LOL...thanks!

 

[x2o 10+ year member]

Wow, well chad, if nothing else, at least you have taught me a lot from this thread.

Thanks. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif! (I actually did read through every post, and have learned a lot more about electronics and circuits surprisingly. lol)

 

[lilmaniac2 5,000+ posts]

Wow, well chad, if nothing else, at least you have taught me a lot from this thread.
Thanks. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif! (I actually did read through every post, and have learned a lot more about electronics and circuits surprisingly. lol)

Don't take every word i said as the final word on electronics, the concepts are solid and the examples should be accurate, but it has been a few years since I've had a class in anything other than computers/transistors. A long ways from the old days of simple dc circuits.

for some good reading check out http://www.bcae1.com thats where I learned alot of my stuff, I think they may even have a cool thing showing current with an interactive water thing now...

 

[x2o 10+ year member]

Don't take every word i said as the final word on electronics, the concepts are solid and the examples should be accurate, but it has been a few years since I've had a class in anything other than computers/transistors. A long ways from the old days of simple dc circuits.
for some good reading check out http://www.bcae1.com thats where I learned alot of my stuff, I think they may even have a cool thing showing current with an interactive water thing now...

Oh yeah I know, I don't take 99% of anything I read on CA.com as final, regardless of the subject. But I mean the concepts and ideas you've demonstrated have helped me learn. And yeah I have bcae1.com bookmarked and have been flipping through whenever I get a free minute or two for the past few weeks/months.

 

[Justintoxicated 10+ year member]

click there user name, view there profile and look on the upper right side of there profile it wil say
Add dumbass to your ignore list

I used to think you knew your stuff, but I think I'll stick with advice from other members like squeek and audiolife etc. I dont have time for ignorent members who get their jollies trying to put down others who ask simple questions. Throwing insults to people for no reason at all. I understood everything you said the entire time, but you never answered the question I was looking for until 3 pages or so in. Blame the students for being stupid when it's the teachers who don't know how to answer the questions properly. Well at least you increased your post count and E-peen today.

- Have a nice rest of the night.

 

[Cameron_B 10+ year member]

Excuse me for this, but it has to be said.

Some of the shit that comes out of your guys mouth is well........pure SHIT.

Taking 2 concepts, placing them together and inferring the rest is not a way to do things.

a 2 calculated with a 2 is not always 4, what about 2/2.

Ie:Inferring that electrons dont flow back to the battery just because it's grounded to the chassis.

Let me ask you this, if grounding back to the battery in some way wasnt necessary, only grounding to the frame was. Why would batteries even have a negative post?? Just ground to the chassis.

Also, whoever said the alternator just produces voltage is smoking crack.

Lets examine why:

The alternator is essentially a core with coils wrapping around it.

When the input of the alternator is driven it spins the core resulting in a magnetic field which in sure creates AC voltage.

This AC voltage is transferred to the rear of the alternator which houses a bridge rectifier. (A bridge rectifier converts AC to DC.)

The Bridge Rectifier then in turn provides electricity to the car.

Technically you do not even need a battery, exept for the initial start of the engine in which mechanical power is tranferred to the alternator which in turn provides flow.

I guarantee if you start your car and remove the battery it will still run, this is of course assuming you take less power out of the alternator than it is rated, thus not providing the voltage for the ignition.

That is all......

 

[Hintzyboy 5,000+ posts]

I used to think you knew your stuff, but I think I'll stick with advice from other members like squeek and audiolife etc. I dont have time for ignorent members who get their jollies trying to put down others who ask simple questions. Throwing insults to people for no reason at all. I understood everything you said the entire time, but you never answered the question I was looking for until 3 pages or so in. Blame the students for being stupid when it's the teachers who don't know how to answer the questions properly. Well at least you increased your post count and E-peen today.
- Have a nice rest of the night.

He obviously knows far more than you do. And audiolife is not exactly a respected member here. Perhaps you should learn the correct names before you go name dropping. Besides, they would tell you the same exact thing Chad told you. You are apparantly the only one who is unable to understand the concept. I honestly don't know if I would trust you to plug in a lamp and turn it on without messing something up.

 

[Justintoxicated 10+ year member]

Excuse me for this, but it has to be said.
Some of the shit that comes out of your guys mouth is well........pure SHIT.

Taking 2 concepts, placing them together and inferring the rest is not a way to do things.

a 2 calculated with a 2 is not always 4, what about 2/2.

Ie:Inferring that electrons dont flow back to the battery just because it's grounded to the chassis.

Let me ask you this, if grounding back to the battery in some way wasnt necessary, only grounding to the frame was. Why would batteries even have a negative post?? Just ground to the chassis.

Also, whoever said the alternator just produces voltage is smoking crack.

Lets examine why:

The alternator is essentially a core with coils wrapping around it.

When the input of the alternator is driven it spins the core resulting in a magnetic field which in sure creates AC voltage.

This AC voltage is transferred to the rear of the alternator which houses a bridge rectifier. (A bridge rectifier converts AC to DC.)

The Bridge Rectifier then in turn provides electricity to the car.

Technically you do not even need a battery, exept for the initial start of the engine in which mechanical power is tranferred to the alternator which in turn provides flow.

I guarantee if you start your car and remove the battery it will still run, this is of course assuming you take less power out of the alternator than it is rated, thus not providing the voltage for the ignition.

That is all......

Thanks, I don't think the question was a matter of if power needed to transfer back to the battery, but more so if it was necessary to really run a second 0awg line. I have never had a problem with my setup grounding into the frame rail of my truck (Nissan titan with huge box frame).

In the end I was somewhat persuaded that on a high output system this is optimal, but 10-12 feet of 0awg is quite expensive and I'm not sure it's always necessary. I'm only pusing a couple thousand watts at once, and generaly when I have other accessories running (Ham Radio, Or dual ViaAir compressors) I don't have the stereo blazing anyways.

My point was that not all of the power even comes from the battery, it also comes from the alternator which is also grounded to the frame. lilmaniac2 corrected me and bashed me saying its grounded to the engine block which is higher grade metal (conductance wise than the frame, which true in my case since I have an aluminum block), and then to the battery and to the frame.

However on a V8 truck such as my own theres ground straps all over (some are 0awg) that I made myself to replace teh factory ones. I'm sure theres a ton of paths to ground the alternator to the frame as well through the engine block...(feel free to correct me if I'm wrong here), not to mention that the battery is also grounded to the frame and body in several locations.

The alternator being so close and directly connected to the ground of the alternator I can believe there can be a slight advantage in grounding back to the battery, especialy in some vehicles vs others. It should also help to avoid ground loop issues although I don't have any.

Lesson Learned: never ask questions in the help section of CarAudio.

 

[Hintzyboy 5,000+ posts]

Thanks, I don't think the question was a matter of if power needed to transfer back to the battery, but more so if it was necessary to really run a second 0awg line. I have never had a problem with my setup grounding into the frame rail of my truck (Nissan titan with huge box frame).
In the end I was somewhat persuaded that on a high output system this is optimal, but 10-12 feet of 0awg is quite expensive and I'm not sure it's always necessary. I'm only pusing a couple thousand watts at once, and generaly when I have other accessories running (Ham Radio, Or dual ViaAir compressors) I don't have the stereo blazing anyways.

My point was that not all of the power even comes from the battery, it also comes from the alternator which is also grounded to the frame. lilmaniac2 corrected me and bashed me saying its grounded to the engine block which is higher grade metal (conductance wise than the frame, which true in my case since I have an aluminum block), and then to the battery and to the frame.

However on a V8 truck such as my own theres ground straps all over (some are 0awg) that I made myself to replace teh factory ones. I'm sure theres a ton of paths to ground the alternator to the frame as well through the engine block...(feel free to correct me if I'm wrong here), not to mention that the battery is also grounded to the frame and body in several locations.

The alternator being so close and directly connected to the ground of the alternator I can believe there can be a slight advantage in grounding back to the battery, especialy in some vehicles vs others. It should also help to avoid ground loop issues although I don't have any.

Lesson Learned: never ask questions in the help section of CarAudio.

That lesson only applies if you are a complete jackass who refuses to listen to reason

 

[Alpineforever 10+ year member]

And this whole time I had the wrong idea of what the Ground in a Car did. This was a great read, and now I won't be able to embarrass myself if someone smart ever asks me how a ground works.

 

[helotaxi 5,000+ posts]

The root of your problem is that you're applying the concept of the AC "ground" or "earth" to DC electrical. There is NO ground in a DC circuit. You're not looking for a safety sink for stray voltage like you are with AC. The term "ground" was applied to DC because like "earth" in AC it is the plane of zero potential. AC has 3 wires, remember? There are the two conducting lines to make the circuit and the earth. The earth is there to protect the user, not because it's an essential part of the circuit. Think about it, every two prong plug that you stick in a 110V outlet works without being grounded. With AC both of the conductors are both positive an negative 60 time a second in your house. Ground is neither, it's just ground. In you car there is a positive and a negative, they don't change. There is no ground. The chassis of the car is not meant to dissipate a large voltage in the even of a short, DC doesn't work like that. The chassis is simply a large conductor that serves the purpose of simplifying the installation and wiring of all the electrical devices in the car.

As far as the big 3 making dimming worse, the only reason that would happen would be because the wiring was so inadequate before the upgrade that the voltage drop (the cause of dimming lights) from the wiring kept the devices from drawing the full amount of current that they should have in the first place. With a better pathway, those devices MIGHT draw more current and then exceed the capacity of the alt. This is the only scenario where adding the big 3 would increase dimming and a good battery or two would do more for this than adding a bigger alt as ling as you're talking about headlight flicker and not a prolonged dimming.

You seem to think that the only way to dim the lights is by exceeding the capacity of the alt. The big 3 eliminates the main cause which is systemic voltage drop cause by the stock wires being inadequate and their high resistance dropping voltage according to Ohm's law.

edit: Forgot to add, that current flows in all pathways in a parallel circuit. Your car's electrical system is one big parallel circuit. Power on each load in a parallel circuit is independent of the power on the other loads on the circuit. As long as the source of the power can meet the demand of the circuit as a whole, increasing the efficiency of the power delivery from the source will have an equal benefit to the entire circuit.

d. Because the amp can't pull 14.4 volts or enough watts as it is an underpowered system more current is drawn from the power source and more power is lost through resistance as heat causing your headlights to dim. However they don't dim serverly because they are using 10ga wire to power them properly, which matches the resistance in the wires to your amp. So teh headlights are pulling 110 watts and your amp is only able to pull what it can and is underpowered making it less efficient and unable to pull its maximum load.

That's just plain wrong. It's pretty obvious that you don't understand this.

 

[DDSC 10+ year member]

I'd have to disagree. Example. You have 500 watts from alt battery etc. The connect from Alt to battery has poor wiring is does amp to battery and battery to ground. Because the amp can't pull 14.4 volts or enough watts as it is an underpowered system more current is drawn from the power source and more power is lost through resistance as heat causing your headlights to dim. However they don't dim serverly because they are using 10ga wire to power them properly, which matches the resistance in the wires to your amp. So teh headlights are pulling 110 watts and your amp is only able to pull what it can and is underpowered making it less efficient and unable to pull its maximum load.
So you upgrade to 0ga and do the big 3, now your amp is able to **** all the power it needs from the alternator because there is very little resistance, and even though your losing less power through more efficient voltage to the amp, and especialy due to less resistance in the lines, the headlights and their wiring now have much more resistance than the power lines feeding your amps. So when the bass hits, the power drawn by the amp is utilized before the power drawn by the headlights, making the dimming worse. Of course, your still one step closer to correcting the problem, (underpowered alternator), and are operating more efficiently wasting less power. At least your stereo is louder now //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

However this is generaly not the case, usualy the extra power saved by upgrading can stop the dimming of the headlights, but in certain cases it can make the dimming worse.

Now if you saying amps defy physics and electricity will suddenly flow in the path of greatest resistance then I'll have to take out my Magic Flux capacitor and head back to the future with no passenger.

Man, your like the guy at work that keeps asking me audio questions then tells me no you have to do it like this thats what the guy at best buy said.//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif

Dumbass kid trys to tell me I cant run my 0gauge hyperflex because its too big and wont fit through the firewall, I just looked at him like:wow:, said so how do they get the steering coloumn and all the other wires through the firewall and walked off, THEN about a week later he comes back with som 2 gauge that is made out of like 5 strands of copper and is so stiff you every one of somebodys front teeth out or break a finger with the thing, and ask's me can he use that and then gets a shitty look on his face when I tell him no and explain that its simply not flexable enough unless you run it under the car