Why Run A Ground Wire From The Battery to the amp?

[UndercoverPunk 5,000+ posts]

Ding!

 

[knukonceptz 10+ year member]

I have not read this whole thread, I could not get over some of the "thoughts" I saw....

Intox....

Your Battery is the source of your cars power. Wthout a battery your car will not function. Yes, you can start your car, you can run off the alternator, but I can also drive without a front window, no motor oil, and hell even no coolant...things dont last long when not used properly... Disconnect your Battery's ground wire, at that point you then have NO NEGATIVE 12V connection... At that point you could literally ground your postive wire to the frame, you know what will happen.... NOTHING. your car's chassis is not a negatively charged peice of metal once disconnected from its 12V NEG SOURCE.... IT HOLDS THE VALUE YOU CONNECT TO IT. It may be hard to fathom this but there are some Positive Ground cars out in the world, some older cars and hotrods use a postive ground system, they are rare, but they do exsist. In those cars, the + goes to chassis.

DC and AC are VERY different, your home analogy is very bad, there is no neutral in car. Your CARS 12VDC has a definite + and a definite - as defined by the battery. Without a battery your cars does not define + or -.

Sorry not my best wording of the subject, and please dont try the + to ground if you have this much trouble grasping 12V electronics.

 

[UndercoverPunk 5,000+ posts]

Ding!

 

[DDSC 10+ year member]

I have not read this whole thread, I could not get over some of the "thoughts" I saw....
Intox....

Your Battery is the source of your cars power. Wthout a battery your car will not function. Yes, you can start your car, you can run off the alternator, but I can also drive without a front window, no motor oil, and hell even no coolant...things dont last long when not used properly... Disconnect your Battery's ground wire, at that point you then have NO NEGATIVE 12V connection... At that point you could literally ground your postive wire to the frame, you know what will happen.... NOTHING. your car's chassis is not a negatively charged peice of metal once disconnected from its 12V NEG SOURCE.... IT HOLDS THE VALUE YOU CONNECT TO IT. It may be hard to fathom this but there are some Positive Ground cars out in the world, some older cars and hotrods use a postive ground system, they are rare, but they do exsist. In those cars, the + goes to chassis.

DC and AC are VERY different, your home analogy is very bad, there is no neutral in car. Your CARS 12VDC has a definite + and a definite - as defined by the battery. Without a battery your cars does not define + or -.

Sorry not my best wording of the subject, and please dont try the + to ground if you have this much trouble grasping 12V electronics.

If he dosnt grasp that I DEMAND A CEASE TO ALL HIS RESPONSES

maybe he should use the search button to see tha tuse calling him ****ING IGNORANT IDIOT, is nothing personal

/thread

 

[Justintoxicated 10+ year member]

Man, your like the guy at work that keeps asking me audio questions then tells me no you have to do it like this thats what the guy at best buy said.//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif
Dumbass kid trys to tell me I cant run my 0gauge hyperflex because its too big and wont fit through the firewall, I just looked at him like:wow:, said so how do they get the steering coloumn and all the other wires through the firewall and walked off, THEN about a week later he comes back with som 2 gauge that is made out of like 5 strands of copper and is so stiff you every one of somebodys front teeth out or break a finger with the thing, and ask's me can he use that and then gets a shitty look on his face when I tell him no and explain that its simply not flexable enough unless you run it under the car

Not I'm not like that at all. When have I said that once? I'm simply stating that my vehicles ground is more than sufficent for almsot anything I could fit into it.

The root of your problem is that you're applying the concept of the AC "ground" or "earth" to DC electrical. There is NO ground in a DC circuit. You're not looking for a safety sink for stray voltage like you are with AC. The term "ground" was applied to DC because like "earth" in AC it is the plane of zero potential. AC has 3 wires, remember? There are the two conducting lines to make the circuit and the earth. The earth is there to protect the user, not because it's an essential part of the circuit. Think about it, every two prong plug that you stick in a 110V outlet works without being grounded. With AC both of the conductors are both positive an negative 60 time a second in your house. Ground is neither, it's just ground. In you car there is a positive and a negative, they don't change. There is no ground. The chassis of the car is not meant to dissipate a large voltage in the even of a short, DC doesn't work like that. The chassis is simply a large conductor that serves the purpose of simplifying the installation and wiring of all the electrical devices in the car.
As far as the big 3 making dimming worse, the only reason that would happen would be because the wiring was so inadequate before the upgrade that the voltage drop (the cause of dimming lights) from the wiring kept the devices from drawing the full amount of current that they should have in the first place. With a better pathway, those devices MIGHT draw more current and then exceed the capacity of the alt. This is the only scenario where adding the big 3 would increase dimming and a good battery or two would do more for this than adding a bigger alt as ling as you're talking about headlight flicker and not a prolonged dimming.

You seem to think that the only way to dim the lights is by exceeding the capacity of the alt. The big 3 eliminates the main cause which is systemic voltage drop cause by the stock wires being inadequate and their high resistance dropping voltage according to Ohm's law.

edit: Forgot to add, that current flows in all pathways in a parallel circuit. Your car's electrical system is one big parallel circuit. Power on each load in a parallel circuit is independent of the power on the other loads on the circuit. As long as the source of the power can meet the demand of the circuit as a whole, increasing the efficiency of the power delivery from the source will have an equal benefit to the entire circuit.

That's just plain wrong. It's pretty obvious that you don't understand this.

Thanks,

This is exactly what I explained with the big 3 being able to cause more dimming. However for some reason it is suddenly a fact when it comes out of someone elses mouth, but I get bashed by senior members for mentioning it. I have been a member of this forum 5x as long as many of the people attacking me here so I think the noobs should STFU. Making a better pathway for the amps and not for the other components that are already having trouble dimming can cause even worse dimming when you have exceeded the capacity of the alt (electricity will be pulled to the path of least resistance so upgrading the big 3 on an underpowered alt can help those amp's steal more juice from the headlights. I dont know why everyone says I clearly don't understand the concept then repeat exactly what I have already stated with examples numbers times now.

I still will not be running a $100 piece of 0ga just to power a diamond 1200.1 and arc audio amp, they work fine grounded to the frame rails in my pickup.

I have not read this whole thread, I could not get over some of the "thoughts" I saw....
Intox....

Your Battery is the source of your cars power. Wthout a battery your car will not function. Yes, you can start your car, you can run off the alternator, but I can also drive without a front window, no motor oil, and hell even no coolant...things dont last long when not used properly... Disconnect your Battery's ground wire, at that point you then have NO NEGATIVE 12V connection... At that point you could literally ground your postive wire to the frame, you know what will happen.... NOTHING. your car's chassis is not a negatively charged peice of metal once disconnected from its 12V NEG SOURCE.... IT HOLDS THE VALUE YOU CONNECT TO IT. It may be hard to fathom this but there are some Positive Ground cars out in the world, some older cars and hotrods use a postive ground system, they are rare, but they do exsist. In those cars, the + goes to chassis.

DC and AC are VERY different, your home analogy is very bad, there is no neutral in car. Your CARS 12VDC has a definite + and a definite - as defined by the battery. Without a battery your cars does not define + or -.

Sorry not my best wording of the subject, and please dont try the + to ground if you have this much trouble grasping 12V electronics.

Well I have to disagree, the alternator is the source of the cars power. You can drive without a battery just fine, esp a manual, but not without an alternator, oil or coolant, you will not get very far. It's not really a chicken or the egg question, really old cars and other vehicles, bikes etc get by fine without batteries. "NOTHING. your car's chassis is not a negatively charged peice of metal once disconnected from its 12V NEG SOURCE" very good point I totaly understand. People need to stop saying that I don't I don't need little HS dropouts reading one post by someone else and assuming I don't know. If people will continue to state that I don't understand a concept please back it up with evidence that I am not understanding. The mass of the car is used in some DC electronics jsut in a different way, as with my ham or CB Radio antenna. I really dont have ny trouble grasping DC electronics, I got A's n B's in my college Physics courses, just a little rusty. Obviously I would not try the + to ground in a vehicle where all the electroncis are wires the opposite of that. if I was going to do some experimenting I would do this. Your right my home analogy is really bad as it was off base,As I have already admited just sick of hearing that I don't understand.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_A_E2renNE

 

[Lakota 5,000+ posts]

Jesus Christ, you are worse than CotJones.

 

[Justintoxicated 10+ year member]

Jesus Christ, you are worse than CotJones.

How so?

Because other people keep saying I dont understand then then repeat what I have already satated numberous times?

 

[Hintzyboy 5,000+ posts]

How so?

Your stupidity is on the same level, but he stopped posting months ago. Follow his lead, and it will be a tie

 

[Justintoxicated 10+ year member]

Your stupidity is on the same level, but he stopped posting months ago. Follow his lead, and it will be a tie

Same to you buddy same to you. Just the fact that you posted this shows your ignorence and stupidity. And what have I said that was so stupid? As requested numerours times please show some evidence.

 

[DDSC 10+ year member]

I have not read this whole thread, I could not get over some of the "thoughts" I saw....
Intox....

Your Battery is the source of your cars power. Wthout a battery your car will not function. Yes, you can start your car, you can run off the alternator, but I can also drive without a front window, no motor oil, and hell even no coolant...things dont last long when not used properly... Disconnect your Battery's ground wire, at that point you then have NO NEGATIVE 12V connection... At that point you could literally ground your postive wire to the frame, you know what will happen.... NOTHING. your car's chassis is not a negatively charged peice of metal once disconnected from its 12V NEG SOURCE.... IT HOLDS THE VALUE YOU CONNECT TO IT. It may be hard to fathom this but there are some Positive Ground cars out in the world, some older cars and hotrods use a postive ground system, they are rare, but they do exsist. In those cars, the + goes to chassis.

DC and AC are VERY different, your home analogy is very bad, there is no neutral in car. Your CARS 12VDC has a definite + and a definite - as defined by the battery. Without a battery your cars does not define + or -.

Sorry not my best wording of the subject, and please dont try the + to ground if you have this much trouble grasping 12V electronics.

He said you COULD, didnt say it would work long

Not I'm not like that at all. When have I said that once? I'm simply stating that my vehicles ground is more than sufficent for almsot anything I could fit into it.
PureSPLprix: I never said thats what you said, I said thats how you act

Thanks,

This is exactly what I explained with the big 3 being able to cause more dimming. However for some reason it is suddenly a fact when it comes out of someone elses mouth, but I get bashed by senior members for mentioning it. I have been a member of this forum 5x as long as many of the people attacking me here so I think the noobs should STFU. Making a better pathway for the amps and not for the other components that are already having trouble dimming can cause even worse dimming when you have exceeded the capacity of the alt (electricity will be pulled to the path of least resistance so upgrading the big 3 on an underpowered alt can help those amp's steal more juice from the headlights.

PureSPLprix: The question you asked was why run a ground wire to the amp from the battery

Ato provide a immediate path of less resistance than the cars frame which offers for more effeciency.

youI dont know why everyone says I clearly don't understand the concept then repeat exactly what I have already stated with examples numbers times now.

PureSPLprix

Because your still trying to say (this has nothing to do with orginal question) that the frame is the electrical systems ground and its NOT, its a common pathway TO the ground

youI still will not be running a $100 piece of 0ga just to power a diamond 1200.1 and arc audio amp, they work fine grounded to the frame rails in my pickup.

PureSPLprix, not $100:greedy:

YouWell I have to disagree, the alternator is the source of the cars power. You can drive without a battery just fine, esp a manual, but not without an alternator, oil or coolant, you will not get very far. It's not really a chicken or the egg question, really old cars and other vehicles, bikes etc get by fine without batteries. "NOTHING. your car's chassis is not a negatively charged peice of metal once disconnected from its 12V NEG SOURCE" very good point I totaly understand.

if you did this thread wouldnt be 8 pages long:laugh:

YouPeople need to stop saying that I don't I don't need little HS dropouts reading one post by someone else and assuming I don't know. If people will continue to state that I don't understand a concept please back it up with evidence that I am not understanding.

PureSPLprixPlease refer to pages 1-7 of the Why Run A Ground Wire From The Battery to the amp? thread:crap:

YouThe mass of the car is used in some DC electronics jsut in a different way, as with my ham or CB Radio antenna.

PureSPLprix Your not trying to get a reception here

YOuI really dont have ny trouble grasping DC electronics, I got A's n B's in my college Physics courses, just a little rusty.

PureSPLprixThen why have 12 people including yourself wasted all this time talking about something you already grasp

I think everyones got the reason for a full lenth ground run.

The problem is that you keep trying to tell us the cars frame is the batterys negative post.

Not exactly what you said but thats what IT meant, maybe your trying to say something diffrent and dont know how to word it, if so Im sure everyone sorry for the misunderstanding and rude remarks cause we were only trying to help at first, then you refused to understand

 

[UndercoverPunk 5,000+ posts]

How so?
Because other people keep saying I dont understand then then repeat what I have already satated numberous times?

Same to you buddy same to you. Just the fact that you posted this shows your ignorence and stupidity. And what have I said that was so stupid? As requested numerours times please show some evidence.

NUMEROUS //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/fyi.gif.9f1f679348da7204ce960cfc74bca8e0.gif

 

[Justintoxicated 10+ year member]

He said you COULD, didnt say it would work long


PureSPLprixThen why have 12 people including yourself wasted all this time talking about something you already grasp

I think everyones got the reason for a full lenth ground run.

The problem is that you keep trying to tell us the cars frame is the batterys negative post.

Not exactly what you said but thats what IT meant, maybe your trying to say something diffrent and dont know how to word it, if so Im sure everyone sorry for the misunderstanding and rude remarks cause we were only trying to help at first, then you refused to understand

Your right I ment to say my vehicles Frame not ground on that first one. I never refused to understand in fact on page 2 I already said I would run a ground wire on certain vehicles or in certain circumstances but I still don't think it is necessary to spend an extra $100 on a piece of 0ga wire 90% of the time. I simply brought up other points such as the amps also use power from the alternator (not just the battery), and that the big 3 CAN cause more dimming in certain situations. I never once said it was Wrong to ground back to the battery, or that the Big3 was bad, or not to do it etc. People just assume these things and keep stating that I believe something that I do not, which is really frustrating.

I guess 0ga has been reduces in prioce cause I spent over $200 from knuconceptz 3 years ago.

 

[Hintzyboy 5,000+ posts]

Please quote where I say this, from the last 6 pages of postings. Try to read the first couple pages rather than makeing assumptions. I never refused to understand in fact on page 2 I already said I would run a ground wire on certain vehicles or in certain circumstances but I still don't think it is necessary to spend an extra $100 on a piece of 0ga wire 90% of the time. I simply brought up other points such as the amps also use power from the alternator (not just the battery), and that the big 3 CAN cause more dimming in certain situations. I never once said it was Wrong to ground back to the battery, or that the Big3 was bad, or not to do it etc. people just assume these things.
I guess 0ga has been reduces in prioce cause I spent over $200 from knuconceptz 3 years ago.

No one ever said it was necessary to run a dedicated ground line, but you kept trying to argue that the chassis ground was BETTER than a dedicated ground, which is simply not true for any application.

Upgrading the big 3 can NEVER cause more dimming unless you do it improperly. The power wire going to the amp does not get larger in a big 3 upgrade, so the load does not increase. The only thing that can make dimming worse is an increase in load without an increase in available current.

The amp is not connected to the alternator, it is connected to the battery. Therefore, the simplest loop starts and ends with the battery.

 

[UNDERGROUND_BUM 10+ year member]

Justintoxicated looks like he's the present day Georg Simon Ohm.......

lol

 

[Justintoxicated 10+ year member]

Upgrading the big 3 can NEVER cause more dimming unless you do it improperly. The power wire going to the amp does not get larger in a big 3 upgrade, so the load does not increase. The only thing that can make dimming worse is an increase in load without an increase in available current.

When you put it that way I can't argue. Your right, I was also including upgrading the 0ga wire to the amp in my examples. Without factorying that in (since its not really part of the big 3) your right.