Suggestions.

[thevolunator 10+ year member]

My only worry is...I'm not going to damage the sub by "under powering" it am I?

I mean it would only be like 100 to 150wrms short of the "rated" specs...

 

[Why So Cereal? 5,000+ posts]

No sub in the hhistory of subs has ever been blown from too little power. That's a myth you'll hear some people say but it's completely untrue.

 

[thevolunator 10+ year member]

That's kind of what I thought..I could see possibly damaging it by clipping something somewhere. And although I'm very cautious of clipping anything, that is one reason that I wanted to make sure I had as much good "clean" power as possible...That way I would never have a reason to turn anything up high enough to clip.

 

[zako 10+ year member]

I haven't read through the whole thread, so bear with me if I repeat something that has already been said. I would _strongly_ disagree with the notion of replacing the 6x9 speakers with 6.5s. There may not be as many SQ 6x9 speaker sets, but they certainly exist. My vote would go for Hybrid Audio Imagine 6x9 convertible coaxial/component speaker set. Enough has been said about it, but I just want to mention that my 6.5 Imagines (running active, with each woofer amplifier channel providing >80 clean watts) put out a ridiculous amount of bass that sounds tighter and deeper than anything that I have heard in the past from a 6.5 speaker. I can only _imagine_ how the 6x9 Imagine set would sound, with the oval speaker's cone area comparable to an 8 inch midbass and 7-9mm of one way xmax. I guess these can be easily crossed at 50Hz and actually sound good. If I had 6x9 speakers in my doors, I wouldn't walk, I'd _run_ the the closest HAT dealer or order a set from 12velectronics.com (the only online dealer for HAT stuff). From the experience with the 6.5 version, the 6.5 woofers are alone worth the price, and the tweeters are a nice side effect of buying this speaker set. The only issue is that there is no tweeter level attenuation. Some people who are running these active complain about it. I don't think it's a huge problem. Put the tweeters off axis and apply EQ or run the active/bi-amp (trivial, since you only need a cap on the tweeter and the woofer can run without a low pass filter by design).

With the front speakers taking care of all bass, including lower midbass, the subwoofer could be relegated to playing the sub bass. Under this arrangement, my preference would be for a subwoofer like RE Audio SE/X12 or JBL Power series running in a sealed box (or any other subwoofer known to play effortlessly the deep bass octaves).

 

[Wattser93 10+ year member]

You won't notice a difference. I've had a slash series JL amp and I still get the Boston amps all day. As long as the amp is setup correctly, it'll sound the same. I even run the ever so hated Kicker for my sub amp and it still sounds just as good //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

I'm not a fan of Kicker subs or speakers at all, but their amps are great IMO. Nearly always 25% or more underrated, and the newer ZX line is clean looking IMO.

 

[Why So Cereal? 5,000+ posts]

That's kind of what I thought..I could see possibly damaging it by clipping something somewhere. And although I'm very cautious of clipping anything, that is one reason that I wanted to make sure I had as much good "clean" power as possible...That way I would never have a reason to turn anything up high enough to clip.

with the amps you're looking at i.e. JL, Boston, Alpine you will get your rated power and probably some extra. As long as you set those gains properly, you wont have to worry about clipping.

 

[thevolunator 10+ year member]

I haven't read through the whole thread, so bear with me if I repeat something that has already been said. I would _strongly_ disagree with the notion of replacing the 6x9 speakers with 6.5s. There may not be as many SQ 6x9 speaker sets, but they certainly exist. My vote would go for Hybrid Audio Imagine 6x9 convertible coaxial/component speaker set. Enough has been said about it, but I just want to mention that my 6.5 Imagines (running active, with each woofer amplifier channel providing >80 clean watts) put out a ridiculous amount of bass that sounds tighter and deeper than anything that I have heard in the past from a 6.5 speaker. I can only _imagine_ how the 6x9 Imagine set would sound, with the oval speaker's cone area comparable to an 8 inch midbass and 7-9mm of one way xmax. I guess these can be easily crossed at 50Hz and actually sound good. If I had 6x9 speakers in my doors, I wouldn't walk, I'd _run_ the the closest HAT dealer or order a set from 12velectronics.com (the only online dealer for HAT stuff). From the experience with the 6.5 version, the 6.5 woofers are alone worth the price, and the tweeters are a nice side effect of buying this speaker set. The only issue is that there is no tweeter level attenuation. Some people who are running these active complain about it. I don't think it's a huge problem. Put the tweeters off axis and apply EQ or run the active/bi-amp (trivial, since you only need a cap on the tweeter and the woofer can run without a low pass filter by design).
With the front speakers taking care of all bass, including lower midbass, the subwoofer could be relegated to playing the sub bass. Under this arrangement, my preference would be for a subwoofer like RE Audio SE/X12 or JBL Power series running in a sealed box (or any other subwoofer known to play effortlessly the deep bass octaves).

In my opinion, I agree with you about losing mid-bass by giving up my 6x9's for 6.5's...I have even thought about using my JL-6w3's in my doors and making "kicks" for my Pro60 drivers up front...I think, that would be an awesome Front Stage. (and, actually may end up being what I do at the end of the build)

 

[thevolunator 10+ year member]

with the amps you're looking at i.e. JL, Boston, Alpine you will get your rated power and probably some extra. As long as you set those gains properly, you wont have to worry about clipping.

Yeah, that's actually what I've been playing with(gains/EQ & T/A) the past couple days...I bought the 'Autosound 2000' setup cd's and there is a few RTA iPhone apps out there(I got the $10 one) So, this weekend I'll be doing more deadening and tuning.(probably should wait on the tuning until I get my Pro60's installed though)

 

[Why So Cereal? 5,000+ posts]

Yeah, that's actually what I've been playing with(gains/EQ & T/A) the past couple days...I bought the 'Autosound 2000' setup cd's and there is a few RTA iPhone apps out there(I got the $10 one) So, this weekend I'll be doing more deadening and tuning.(probably should wait on the tuning until I get my Pro60's installed though)

you could've just gotten the JL audio RTA for free and its just as good. Still made by Studio Six

 

[thevolunator 10+ year member]

you could've just gotten the JL audio RTA for free and its just as good. Still made by Studio Six

I have that app too...//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

What do you think about my idea to (eventually) use my JL-6's in my doors for my mid-bass and to move my Pro60 driver's into kicks...That would be a hell of a front stage. Would it not? And still use my SR65's as rear fill to go along with that 10w6 sub....I'm thinking that, that could sound ridiculous.

 

[Why So Cereal? 5,000+ posts]

I have that app too...//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

What do you think about my idea to (eventually) use my JL-6's in my doors for my mid-bass and to move my Pro60 driver's into kicks...That would be a hell of a front stage. Would it not? And still use my SR65's as rear fill to go along with that 10w6 sub....I'm thinking that, that could sound ridiculous.

Well.....I could be hella optimistic and tell you that it'll be amazing! But, there are some things to think about when you go that route, not saying that it cannot be done successfully. Firstly, you want to make sure your amps have the available crossovers to do such a setup. Then, how well will those JL 6s work in the IB enclosure that is your door (given you can get them to fit). You could very well do all of the work that comes with putting a sub into your door and not get the results you wanted because the driver simply doesnt like (wasnt designed for) the enclosure it has been given. Also, generally, when one goes to set up a 3 way front stage, you generally want to have your midrange driver covering as much of the midrange/vocal frequencies as possible. This is where the main advantage of 3 way vs 2 way comes in. Now , your plan is to keep the passive xover between the mid and tweeter and usually Boston crosses their sets somewhere around 3000hz. So, there's a phase change in the middle of the vocal range; meaning that you've prety much defeated the purpose to do a 3 way front stage and your only possible advantage over a properly setup 2 way front stage may (or may not be) more midbass.

I'm not saying you can't try it, shoot, I sure did. But I always like to let people know what they're getting into before they do it. What I would do, as I'm sure you plan to do as well, is to go ahead and try out the Boston Pro Comps in properly SEALED doors. I think you'll be surprised at the midbass you get from them. I recently bought a set of the SE65 Coaxials and put them in a large sealed enclosure in my room on about 50wrms to each speaker and the midbass is strong enough that I can go downstairs and actually feel the bass on the floor right below my room. I imagine the Pro drivers will have even more midbass and you will be running more power to them, then there's cabin gain that may help you out down low. I think you'll be fine with the Pros setup correctly. Even my 5.25 pro 50s had surprising midbass. Then, after the install has been perfected, if its still not enough midbass, you look into other options. Remember, too, in a SQ setup its not as necessary to have massive midbass, as it is to make the front stage blend with the sub. This has been done with crossover points as high as 100-125hz in which case, a front sub would not be necesary as pretty much any comp set can play down that low. Some of this may be a little incoherent as I havent been to sleep before 3am in about a week or so, but hope I was able to help a little.

 

[thevolunator 10+ year member]

Very good input! Hadn't thought about any of that...That is A LOT of work to do/try just to get some extra mid-bass. Probably, won't do all of that just for a minimal to zero gain in SQ. What I do find funny is...Almost everything that I've read on here(and the DIYMA boards) say's that "SEALING" the doors is crucial. Yet, I've talked to a couple of different people(dealers/installers) and they all have said NOT to worry about sealing them and that deadening them was enough. And, that you can't totally seal a door like a box anyway, because the door would fill up with water eventually...Also, even saying that quote: "mid-range drivers are basically designed to play in free air environments"

So, I thought that I would first deaden the crap out of everything and then see if I needed to reconsider sealing them..

 

[Why So Cereal? 5,000+ posts]

Very good input! Hadn't thought about any of that...That is A LOT of work to do/try just to get some extra mid-bass. Probably, won't do all of that just for a minimal to zero gain in SQ. What I do find funny is...Almost everything that I've read on here(and the DIYMA boards) say's that "SEALING" the doors is crucial. Yet, I've talked to a couple of different people(dealers/installers) and they all have said NOT to worry about sealing them and that deadening them was enough. And, that you can't totally seal a door like a box anyway, because the door would fill up with water eventually...Also, even saying that quote: "mid-range drivers are basically designed to play in free air environments"
So, I thought that I would first deaden the crap out of everything and then see if I needed to reconsider sealing them..

Thats sounds exactly like something my local installers would say. I usually dont argue with them. I'll just nod and look as if they just taught me something new.

The thing is, a speaker creates a front and back wave as it plays. Now, if the door is left unsealed, the back wave is allowed to meet with the front and, then , you ,generally, get cancellation. Basically, you'll get less midbass and sometimes less midrange performance. You have to control that back wave to get best results and this is done by sealing the door. Ofcourse, you can't seal a door COMPLETELY but you can cover those gaping holes in them. Car audio speakers (mid-range drivers) are designed to work in sort of an IB configuration (which I've always looked at as a big 'ol leaky sealed enclosure). By sealing the doors (with something rigid), this is what you create.

Also, IIRC, deadener is used for changing the resonant frequency of the surface it is applied to, but the common misconception is that it will seal off the backwave, block outside noise, stop rattles, etc. However, it wont be effective enough to stop that back wave from interfering with the front as this is simply not its purpose. I've been down this same road of just figuring I would just deaden the doors and not worry about seal since so many people said they were useless. In the end, I ended coming right back to the original advice I had seen about sealing the doors and I could immediately tell a difference once I did it. I'm looking to go back and redo them soon here because I'd like to make sure its done right as the first time I did it was pretty quick just to see if it would make a difference. So, I'm gonna say, you MAY be able to get by with just deadening the doors, but you will not be able to get the most out of those speakers and I would think for $400, you'd want every penny's worth of performance. I sure would. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[thevolunator 10+ year member]

Well, I think you've talked me into it....I mean, It's not like the speakers are going to sound worse because the doors are sealed, right? They are going to (at the very least) sound the same as they would in an 'unsealed' application. Beside the fact that your also improving the 'deadening' of the doors as well. I mean, if the speakers were "designed to be free air" why in the hell do they put them in enclosure's in the store? lol

So, as soon as it warms up here(currently 31F), I'm going to jump on that..(hopefully this weekend)

 

[thevolunator 10+ year member]

Has anyone used one of these? I'm thinking about getting one($100 on Amazon) and running my 'rear fill' speakers from it, then bridging my current amp to 200wrms@2ohm for my front stage....Figured it was a cheap way to get extra power...

http://http://www.alpine-usa.com/product/view/ktp-445