Someone please explain this...

[ahole-ic]

Sorry rocky, I'm happy that you've fought cancer and battled AIDS, still lived to tell the tale, and beat up on the big guys, but how can you say we're not enthusiasts because we don't want to spend as much as you? Not only is what you said arrogant, but it's asinine, you do not get to label who is and who isn't an enthusiast based on what gear they run.

So you've fought cancer and aids making your statements relevant? If you haven't, your statements are sad and pathetic and have nothing to do with the discussion. What I said isn't arrogant or asinine. It was the truth. You can't be an enthusiast with underperforming gear. You don't have to have absolutely top of the line, but you can't just buy whatever you can afford at the time and say you're an enthusiast. That was the point I made, and what you are admitting to by being so butthurt.

 

[GammaRadiation 10+ year member]

So you've fought cancer and aids making your statements relevant? If you haven't, your statements are sad and pathetic and have nothing to do with the discussion. What I said isn't arrogant or asinine. It was the truth. You can't be an enthusiast with underperforming gear. You don't have to have absolutely top of the line, but you can't just buy whatever you can afford at the time and say you're an enthusiast. That was the point I made, and what you are admitting to by being so butthurt.

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wow.gif.23d729408e9177caa2a0ed6a2ba6588e.gif

 

[bgowdy 5,000+ posts]

I think people get too caught up on the actual paper performance of things when what they should be worried about is whether or not the product they are buying/using fits their needs. I love my 2500 and it does everything I need it to. It may be rated at 14.4 while I'm running at 14.0 but I'm losing maybe 200w which honestly makes hardly any difference especially in a daily driver setup. Gains are set for 2kw using a 50Hz -3dB test tone, the sub is a 3" 4 layer coil and I've never smelled it once even after playing lows full tilt for 10+ minute. Either the cooling is insane good or the amp is putting out clean power. I'm going to put my money on the latter.
If the product fits your needs and your budget I don't see why it is bad. There will always be cheaper brands and there will always be more expensive brands. Not everyone has the money to spend on a sundown or a dc amp. You can say what you want about each company and that is your opinion which I whole heartedly respect, but don't go off saying a company is trash because they aren't absolute top-of-the-line, especially if you've never even used the product before.

(I'm not directing this towards anyone specific, this is a message for everyone..)

^^ this...

 

[ahole-ic]

I think people get too caught up on the actual paper performance of things when what they should be worried about is whether or not the product they are buying/using fits their needs. I love my 2500 and it does everything I need it to. It may be rated at 14.4 while I'm running at 14.0 but I'm losing maybe 200w which honestly makes hardly any difference especially in a daily driver setup. Gains are set for 2kw using a 50Hz -3dB test tone, the sub is a 3" 4 layer coil and I've never smelled it once even after playing lows full tilt for 10+ minute. Either the cooling is insane good or the amp is putting out clean power. I'm going to put my money on the latter.
If the product fits your needs and your budget I don't see why it is bad. There will always be cheaper brands and there will always be more expensive brands. Not everyone has the money to spend on a sundown or a dc amp. You can say what you want about each company and that is your opinion which I whole heartedly respect, but don't go off saying a company is trash because they aren't absolute top-of-the-line, especially if you've never even used the product before.

(I'm not directing this towards anyone specific, this is a message for everyone..)

When you say "needs" what do you mean? I think that's very important. No matter whether you're after sq, hair tricks, or dbs, that low end equipment won't do it for you. It is less efficient, underperforming, and a waste. It will end up blowing for any myriad of reasons and you'll end up spending more running that crap than you would if you would have used a little self control and simply saved for some quality gear. I'm not going after you personally. I'm just speaking in hypotheticals to give an opposing viewpoint.

 

[Kangaroux 5,000+ posts]

When you say "needs" what do you mean? I think that's very important. No matter whether you're after sq, hair tricks, or dbs, that low end equipment won't do it for you. It is less efficient, underperforming, and a waste. It will end up blowing for any myriad of reasons and you'll end up spending more running that crap than you would if you would have used a little self control and simply saved for some quality gear. I'm not going after you personally. I'm just speaking in hypotheticals to give an opposing viewpoint.

Needs just in the sense of what you are going for. For example, corey made my sub to be rated at 1800w RMS. I could get the rubicon 2500 for a good price, and I wasn't going to use the full power of the amp anyways so it wouldn't be a big deal if it was slightly overrated.

I see where you are getting at about low quality equipment, but to be honest a lot of the reasons something blows or ends up failing is because of user error. It's the people that buy cheap equipment and expect it to operate like a high end piece of equipment that end up blowing stuff.

 

[T.I.K. 10+ year member]

So you've fought cancer and aids making your statements relevant? If you haven't, your statements are sad and pathetic and have nothing to do with the discussion. What I said isn't arrogant or asinine. It was the truth. You can't be an enthusiast with underperforming gear. You don't have to have absolutely top of the line, but you can't just buy whatever you can afford at the time and say you're an enthusiast. That was the point I made, and what you are admitting to by being so butthurt.

How is it not arrogant? You're basically saying that if our equipment doesn't meet up with whatever imaginary standard you've set, we're not enthusiasts. How is it not asinine? Some of us are college students, I, myself have a very narrow band of time in which I make money, and I buy what I can afford and still pay bills. I don't want to wait 6 extra months to buy gear when I can have a decent system now, and slowly upgrade it over time. By definition, anyone who's taken the time to learn about car audio and become relatively well-versed in the subject is an enthusiast; they are not defined by the kind of equipment they run. So again I say, what you said is arrogant and asinine.

When you say "needs" what do you mean? I think that's very important. No matter whether you're after sq, hair tricks, or dbs, that low end equipment won't do it for you. It is less efficient, underperforming, and a waste. It will end up blowing for any myriad of reasons and you'll end up spending more running that crap than you would if you would have used a little self control and simply saved for some quality gear. I'm not going after you personally. I'm just speaking in hypotheticals to give an opposing viewpoint.

Again, what if their needs are simply to have decent sounding bass at a reasonable cost? Let's take Jesse's case for example. Jesse has no means of steady income, so he has a set price bracket in which he can operate. To say he is not an enthusiast simply because he can't spend as much money as you is extremely tacky.

Also about they aids and cancer, I wasn't saying I was experiencing that, you just made your life story sound so difficult. I'm glad you overcame such adversity to install a sound system in your car.

 

[GammaRadiation 10+ year member]

When you say "needs" what do you mean? I think that's very important. No matter whether you're after sq, hair tricks, or dbs, that low end equipment won't do it for you. It is less efficient, underperforming, and a waste. It will end up blowing for any myriad of reasons and you'll end up spending more running that crap than you would if you would have used a little self control and simply saved for some quality gear. I'm not going after you personally. I'm just speaking in hypotheticals to give an opposing viewpoint.

There are plenty of cheaper mids and highs that sound fine if you seal your doors, properly EQ, and dont over drive them. The stuff you're referring to is often designed to do the same only at excessive volume levels. The highest of high end usually isn't even designed to be loud. You dont have to like your music loud to the point of hearing damage to be an enthusiast. I personally have more money into sound deadening than I do my mids/highs and their amps. I chose my own active component set from PE and spent $100 on tweeters and mids and it sounds better and gets almost as loud as the "mid-high end" components sets I've used.

An enthusiast would imply an enthusiastic approach to obtaining the sound you desire. Learning and DIY. Etc... It does not mean turning audio into a financial priority.

 

[IonRL205 10+ year member]

So you've fought cancer and aids making your statements relevant? If you haven't, your statements are sad and pathetic and have nothing to do with the discussion. What I said isn't arrogant or asinine. It was the truth. You can't be an enthusiast with underperforming gear. You don't have to have absolutely top of the line, but you can't just buy whatever you can afford at the time and say you're an enthusiast. That was the point I made, and what you are admitting to by being so butthurt.

Going by your logic, nobody is a car enthusiast unless they own a lamborghini or a Ferrari. Just cause you can't afford the top of the line gear doesn't mean you're not an enthusiast. Some people buy what they can at the time so they have something while they are saving for their next setup. I'm going with a pair of Skar VVX-10s for now until I can afford some Xcons, but I guess im not an enthusiast going by your logic.

 

[T.I.K. 10+ year member]

Going by your logic, nobody is a car enthusiast unless they own a lamborghini or a Ferrari. Just cause you can't afford the top of the line gear doesn't mean you're not an enthusiast. Some people buy what they can at the time so they have something while they are saving for their next setup. I'm going with a pair of Skar VVX-10s for now until I can afford some Xcons, but I guess im not an enthusiast going by your logic.

About 90% of the active forum use base isn't an enthusiast by his definition.

 

[bgowdy 5,000+ posts]

There are plenty of cheaper mids and highs that sound fine if you seal your doors, properly EQ, and dont over drive them. The stuff you're referring to is often designed to do the same only at excessive volume levels. The highest of high end usually isn't even designed to be loud. You dont have to like your music loud to the point of hearing damage to be an enthusiast. I personally have more money into sound deadening than I do my mids/highs and their amps. I chose my own active component set from PE and spent $100 on tweeters and mids and it sounds better and gets almost as loud as the "mid-high end" components sets I've used.
An enthusiast would imply an enthusiastic approach to obtaining the sound you desire. Learning and DIY. Etc... It does not mean turning audio into a financial priority.

best post yet lol.

 

[ahole-ic]

How is it not arrogant? You're basically saying that if our equipment doesn't meet up with whatever imaginary standard you've set, we're not enthusiasts.

Would you call someone a car enthusiast if they bought all their parts at autozone? No. You can't dip your toe in the water and say you're a professional swimmer. It just doesn't work that way.

How is it not asinine? Some of us are college students, I, myself have a very narrow band of time in which I make money, and I buy what I can afford and still pay bills. I don't want to wait 6 extra months to buy gear when I can have a decent system now, and slowly upgrade it over time. By definition, anyone who's taken the time to learn about car audio and become relatively well-versed in the subject is an enthusiast; they are not defined by the kind of equipment they run. So again I say, what you said is arrogant and asinine.

This is a perfect example. I went to school and worked 2 jobs to get what I want. You are making excuses for having crappy gear. If you were an enthusiast, you would not make excuses. You would not party or slack off or be an idiot troll on facebook and ca.com. You would be working to upgrade. Instead, you're in here complaining about not having time to work for good gear. You're weak.

Again, what if their needs are simply to have decent sounding bass at a reasonable cost? Let's take Jesse's case for example. Jesse has no means of steady income, so he has a set price bracket in which he can operate. To say he is not an enthusiast simply because he can't spend as much money as you is extremely tacky.

His means for a steady income would be a job. If he doesn't have steady income, he should be worried about saving money etc until he can find steady income... not buying car audio. You guys have your priorities all jacked up.

Also about they aids and cancer, I wasn't saying I was experiencing that, you just made your life story sound so difficult. I'm glad you overcame such adversity to install a sound system in your car.

I didn't make it sound difficult. I said that people can't complain that they can't afford etc and make excuses, when I have been there and done that. I know better. People often try to explain and justify why they are failures. They redefine failing such as you are trying to do, to make it seem acceptable. It isn't.

 

[ahole-ic]

There are plenty of cheaper mids and highs that sound fine if you seal your doors, properly EQ, and dont over drive them. The stuff you're referring to is often designed to do the same only at excessive volume levels. The highest of high end usually isn't even designed to be loud. You dont have to like your music loud to the point of hearing damage to be an enthusiast. I personally have more money into sound deadening than I do my mids/highs and their amps. I chose my own active component set from PE and spent $100 on tweeters and mids and it sounds better and gets almost as loud as the "mid-high end" components sets I've used.
An enthusiast would imply an enthusiastic approach to obtaining the sound you desire. Learning and DIY. Etc... It does not mean turning audio into a financial priority.

If you've spent all the money in your pocket that day on audio, and you did not save for it etc, I would say that you have still made it a financial priority. I think that's fairly obvious. Learning and DIY is but part of the equation. These same guys in here butthurt will post videos of someone bragging about kicker or sony or etc, and their gear is barely better and they are in here trying to justify themselves and are butthurt but can't find a lick of difference between their self and the guy they are making fun of.

 

[ahole-ic]

Going by your logic, nobody is a car enthusiast unless they own a lamborghini or a Ferrari. Just cause you can't afford the top of the line gear doesn't mean you're not an enthusiast. Some people buy what they can at the time so they have something while they are saving for their next setup. I'm going with a pair of Skar VVX-10s for now until I can afford some Xcons, but I guess im not an enthusiast going by your logic.

You would afford the Xcons much sooner if you skipped buying the skars. Tell me what my definition was again.... quote me and find what my definition was, then come back and tell me what you said here accurately represents it.

 

[GammaRadiation 10+ year member]

If you've spent all the money in your pocket that day on audio, and you did not save for it etc, I would say that you have still made it a financial priority. I think that's fairly obvious. Learning and DIY is but part of the equation. These same guys in here butthurt will post videos of someone bragging about kicker or sony or etc, and their gear is barely better and they are in here trying to justify themselves and are butthurt but can't find a lick of difference between their self and the guy they are making fun of.

What you're describing is financial irresponsibility and not financial priority. Financial priority is making sure you have the money to cover the cost. If you're saving, it is implicit that it is a financial priority. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. You obviously have a gripe with branding. I agree to some extent but you wont hear me call a piece of Kicker or JL equipment bad or hate on someone who runs it. Owners who think they're better because Best Buy and all the big money show cars run it too are another story... I simply do not condone your negative connotation toward people who have no desire to have the latest and greatest equipment. That's akin to people who only like ported boxes because they're louder, or who dont like anything but a proper woofer in an IB arrangement because that's what sounds best. Each person has their individual taste. There is some pride in having paid beans for your equipment yet being fully satisfied with the results.

 

[hispls 5,000+ posts]

When you say "needs" what do you mean? I think that's very important. No matter whether you're after sq, hair tricks, or dbs, that low end equipment won't do it for you. It is less efficient, underperforming, and a waste. It will end up blowing for any myriad of reasons and you'll end up spending more running that crap than you would if you would have used a little self control and simply saved for some quality gear. I'm not going after you personally. I'm just speaking in hypotheticals to give an opposing viewpoint.

Agreed whole heartedly.

Personally I've used some SS stuff and seen/heard a lot more. A couple things were impressive (again PA actually slapped their brand name on a couple half decent products in their day as well).

In all honestly I'm still butthurt at Soundstream for the ****** head unit I bought from them last year....not because I can't afford better, but it was the only in dash DVD player that would fit without extreme mods in my dash. Biggest piece of **** I've had the displeasure to waste 20 minutes installing.

Their best stuff is their old XXX amps that don't even make rated power at 18V and their TSNS knockoff is OK, but IMO still overpriced.

My only point is that it's Power Acoustic so let's not pretend it's any better than entry level Best Buy stuff.