should i buy some GM stock

[Lugnutz 10+ year member]

The people in the big 3 making over $25 an hour have been there over 10 years. The problem with GM and Ford is they have lost market share to Toyota and Honda and all them foreign companies. They have too many employees. They are making too many cars. People are buying more foreign cars then they were 10-15-20 years ago.

 

[Lingerfelt 10+ year member]

10, 20, 50 years of experience doing the same basic thing a 16 year old can master in two weeks means nothing in my eyes.

How many foreign cars are in the parking lot at any given time? How many line workers are driving Kia's, Hyundai's, and Toyota's?

Is it entirely their fault? No, it's true the quality isn't there. But the cost of basic labor is ridiculous, and combined with the lack of quality, it's killing the Big 3.

 

[Lugnutz 10+ year member]

The Asian auto companies hold a 44% market share. When I was at GM I saw zero foreign cars. I felt embarrassed driving a Ford there. Ford had some of the best initial quality ratings. GM and Chrysler both had solid quality ratings. It isn't true the quality isn't there.

 

[Hintzyboy 5,000+ posts]

The US Auto industry is in trouble to be sure. But I think they are about due for an upswing. Ford and Chevy have pumped out some pretty good cars in the last year or so and they have more on the horizon. The stink they are in now is a product of the 80s and 90s, when just about everything other than American trucks was crappy and unreliable. Hell, GM rode the same 4 speed automatic transmission for 25 years and called it good enough.

If you want to invest in auto stock, invest in Honda. They are incredibly stable and are the only major auto company to post US profits in the last year.

 

[Lugnutz 10+ year member]

The US Auto industry is in trouble to be sure. But I think they are about due for an upswing. Ford and Chevy have pumped out some pretty good cars in the last year or so and they have more on the horizon. The stink they are in now is a product of the 80s and 90s, when just about everything other than American trucks was crappy and unreliable. Hell, GM rode the same 4 speed automatic transmission for 25 years and called it good enough.

If you want to invest in auto stock, invest in Honda. They are incredibly stable and are the only major auto company to post US profits in the last year.

I think he wanted to invest in GM because it was so cheap and bank on the fact the company would return to blue chip status.

You may want to invest in Ford. Their stock is the same price and they are not as close to bankruptcy as GM.

 

[Lingerfelt 10+ year member]

Every time I've been to the Tech Center I've seen several foreign vehicles.

Quality according to who?

Pick up a Motor Trend, Car and Driver, Road and Track, "Insert Car Magazine Name Here". Where do the American cars place 85% of the time? Last.

Someone needs to inform the Big 3 that NOBODY likes gray plastic. No one.

I'm the son of a GM engineer, and if I wasn't born into it, I wouldn't think twice about heading to the Honda dealership.

After sitting in a Civic/Jetta/Golf, I would not be interested in an Ion.

Are they turning it around? Yes. The Malibu is awesome. The Sky is great. The G6 and the Aura? Yep.

But it's too late.

 

[Lugnutz 10+ year member]

Where do you drive by the tech center? You can hardly see the parking lots from any road. Motor Trend, Consumer Reports, JD Power have all given Ford and select GM cars good ratings.

Hell the Cadillac was Motor Trend's car of the year.

 

[Lingerfelt 10+ year member]

Where do you drive by the tech center? You can hardly see the parking lots from any road. Motor Trend, Consumer Reports, JD Power have all given Ford and select GM cars good ratings.
Hell the Cadillac was Motor Trend's car of the year.

The couple of times I've been to, not drove by.

Consumer Reports and JD Power? I know of them only through advertisements, and I know no one who reads them.

Define good ratings. I'm talking about comparisions. 9 times out of 10 the domestics make up the bottom of the barrel.

The CTS is right up there with the Malibu, true halo products, but they're just that.

 

[Lugnutz 10+ year member]

You say quality rankings, now you are on to comparisons, now you put off national magazine rankings, then you drove by the tech center, and then you been in it, so how many times is our story going to change? Any

 

[Hintzyboy 5,000+ posts]

Like I said, they are coming out with more and more GOOD cars. Take the new Fiesta for example. High quality, efficient, good looking, fun to drive, affordabel, and most imoortantly, high-volume. The Malibu is a great player in one of the biggest segments in the market.

It is definitely going to be close, but if th US automakers can get through the next few years and keep putting out good new vehicles, I think we will see a resurgence of Detroit. The oil crisis and the impending switch to alternative fuels could provide the perfect clean slate if they can just hold out and not make stupid decisions.

 

[funkyab 10+ year member]

there has been a lot of argument over these "big wages" that union UAW workers are paid. Even at 28 dollars per hour (consider a 5 day working week, 8 hours per day, minus one hour for lunch, not taking any holidays throughout the year) that is 50,960 dollars a year plus benefits. In 2008 the average income tax bracket for an earner making this wage is 25%. so at the end of the day, the take home pay is 38,220 dollars. This does not include any payments workers pay into whether it be supplemental retirement plans or supplementary health insurance plans..

So are the UAW worker really getting it that good??? My god..... 38220 will barely keep a family alive if said UAW worker is the sole bread winner in the family..

Unions in the USA were originally designed to protect workers from employers that were making INCREDIBLY MASSIVE profits from the sale of their goods and not reflecting their good fortune on their workers. Through team building workers at these early companies sought to protect their workers from this injustice. There have been many violent encounters between (what was called in the early robber barons) and workers. Out of these arguments unions were formed and the government supported the rights of workers to form these unions to offset the greed of the Owner/board/management.

unfortunately, because of the run away "take it if you can" ideology of the capitalist market as it exist today, it is the workers that are FU(ked the most!!

Many business owners call unionization a "problem" and that they cannot exit if they have to abide by union rules.

This is silly. (i know i am going to get slammed by others in this forum that have criticized me for bringing up how the world works in other countries... Whatever... But the truth is that in most other countries that those of us in the U.S. would consider "civilized" or to be more accurate "western" there is no such thing as a "minimum wage." There is a living wage. A wage that is guaranteed to all workers, regardless of what trade you happen to be in, regardless of your "luck" you are guaranteed to make. Granted this wage may not provide you with the assets to buy a ferrari or to go out every evening for a nice dinner, but it will guaranty you the RIGHT to not have to worry about diapers, about food, about health insurance, about lost time due to pregnancy ((WHICH IS OF COURSE FOR FUK$ sake either an inevitable expense or a planned expense!!!!))

Many might point out a very valid fact in arguing with this post that in these countries that i have fore mentioned that utilize the form of "social democracy" as uniquely Scandinavian or uniquely European, or even SOCIALIST!!! (oh dread the word that so many consider the absolute equivalent of historical communism. (Fu(king idiots).

Well... this argument is valid but i can give a proper case example.. In Norway the average tax burden on an individual is 25 percent. This is the tax you might pay if you make less than 75,000 USD per year. The minimum hourly wage in this particular country is about 30 u.s. dollars per hour. Granted, in some areas the cost of living skyrockets others, this is a living wage.

This is very close to the federal tax burden we have to suffer in the USA. Looking cl at what i quoted earlier, UAW workers are making after tax just shy of 40K per year. And this is in many cases without a proper current health plan, without proper accounts for the college plans for your children and in many cases, not even proper supplementry health insurance in case your company and their company decide to fu(k you!!!!!!

So we come back to these "OVER PAID" workers. (as some people in this thread have considered) UAW worker that are making this "excessive wage...... " (reminder, after taxes we are looking at around 39k.)

Lets do some math......

The UAW worker that makes 28 dollars per hour and is a proud man that wants to be the bread winner in the family. (for argument sake lets say he is the sole provider for his wife and 4 children).

Ok... Basic expenses in an AVERAGE American run of the mill town would run:

1. Housing.... appx. 1,500 per month (whether renting or paying mortgage)

Utilities on top of that could run easily around 600 dollars per month.

2. food...........appx. 1,000 per month (for 6 people)

3. health insurance. (lets assume that the company supports basic needs) but to supplement this.

..appx 200 dollars per month.

4. Car insurance. appx. 60 dollars per month for 2 cars carrying bare bones liability.

At this point we are at around 42,000 of annual expenses. RIght now we are almost 2K over the take home income of said worker and we have not even budgeted for lifestyle expences, whether they be vacations, clothes, even shampoo...

So... this is something interesting to thing about... Even more interesting is to do the math of the single person, that is unfortunate enough to make 6.55 per hour and try to mathematically calculate how they can even sustain the most basic lifestyle. Seems to me that one of the biggest sacrifices living in this situation naturally sacrifice is HEALTH CARE EXPENCES!!! WTF!!!!!

We have some VERY serious problems when we have productive working citizens in our country can work 40 hours a week and not be able to meet their basic needs..

 

[Rmsanger 10+ year member]

Stay far far away from any Domestic Car Manufacturer at this point. The upside isn't there and you've got an easy path to see where you could lose 100% of your investment. 20 - 25% max upside with 100% on th down aren't very good return intervals.

On a personal note I'm rooting that the Federal Government chooses to not extend them the 100B in "loans" and let's them fall flat on their *****. It will finally break the unions back and put 2.5 million workers back into circulation so we can re-allocate resources. We should take the 100B in funds and start investing in energy production.

 

[alvitae 10+ year member]

The above post about workers not making a living wage is probably right.

But if an article I read the other day is right american auto workers are still making 30$ more an hour than over seas workers when you factor in health care, paid vacations and retirement etc.

With a labor cost deficit like that there is no way we can compete. Especially since our government decided Nafta and one world finance is the best way to go.

As far as buying GM stock first rule is never invest more than you want to lose, Then I would weigh the chances of a bailout and the possibility of a very long recession and even the chance that we may never recover to our former financial power.

 

[IamDeMan 5,000+ posts]

People aren't buying because there is a very real chance GM can go bankrupt.

w3rd

i agree. the auto makers in the u.s. are in trouble like any other suffering business. Because profits go down they loose stock value.
I think one of the HUGE problems with the U.S. auto market is overall quality and poor engineering. There are reasons that manufactures such as toyota and honda consistently have better sales globally and higher profits.

You can go almost anywhere in the world and see versions of the toyots and hondas we are used to seeing here but RARELY see American made cars being used daily. This is so sad. The Auto industry in the USA for many years was the industry to be emulated and envied. Now it seems that the build quality and engineering tolerances are incredibly substandard to our competitors and this is showing in the markets and in the profit margins of these companies. I do not think a company that has made choices to build poor automobiles (especially being VERY aware of the competitors they are up against) should get a dime of federal bailout money aside from what it might take to support their employees that might otherwise be let go due to their "restructuring".

On a side note, speaking of quality, I recently read a statistic that BMW spends the same amount of money on quality control and engineering on ONE model of their many models that GM spends on their ENTIRE LINE of passenger vehicles.

WTF??

I hate when people spill pure BS out of their mouth to help perpetuate lies. By any major rating organization, U.S. autos have been on par and many times better in quality. Vision routinely ranked many GM models at the same level as Japans autos in terms of problem per 100 vehicles.

It is a perceived lack of quality brought on from a time period where we were resting on our laurels. People like you keep this stigmata alive by speaking out of your ***. GM also has blame to share as they just aren't making models people seem to want to buy now that the SUV madness is over. It still has nothing to do with FACTUAL rating of quality in their builds.

 

[IamDeMan 5,000+ posts]

Stay far far away from any Domestic Car Manufacturer at this point. The upside isn't there and you've got an easy path to see where you could lose 100% of your investment. 20 - 25% max upside with 100% on th down aren't very good return intervals.
On a personal note I'm rooting that the Federal Government chooses to not extend them the 100B in "loans" and let's them fall flat on their *****. It will finally break the unions back and put 2.5 million workers back into circulation so we can re-allocate resources. We should take the 100B in funds and start investing in energy production.

I agree. I really wish they wouldn't bail anyone out. Let everyone lay in the bed they have made.