opinions on edead sound deadener

[FoxPro5 5,000+ posts]

Well, Bigbang, something is very clear to me about this whole conversation - and that is your constant comparison of non-deadening products to actual, real deadening products. You keep making the same mistake over and over, in my eyes. If you advocate Fatmat, you DO NOT advocate deadener - because Fatmat is not deadener. Get it?

But, as I said earlier (maybe it was another thread, i can't remember) there is such an incomplete and vague definition of what "deadener" is and does, that it's nothing but a never ending, circular argument.

And, again, for the record....I have mylar-backed asphat in my car for pealing and sealing. I also have deadener for deadening. I use them for what they are designed to do and don't waste my time, money or energy interchanging the two. Do what you want, but DON'T expect to get away with poor advice to others. I hate to sound like the "sound deadener" police, but this crap has to stop. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

Ultimately the problem is people using the terms sound deadening and mass loading interchangeably.

 

[FoxPro5 5,000+ posts]

Ultimately the problem is people using the terms sound deadening and mass loading interchangeably.

I'm bookmarking this as something we officially agree on. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif

You can buy massive deadening in the form of high temp mastic sheeting from McMaster, but the adhesive is relatively poor IME. If it ain't stickin, it ain't dampin.

If "sound deadening" indeed was noting more than mass loading, what's the ideal mass per unit area that we need to attenuate a 16 gauge piece of flat sheet metal with modal resonant frequency of 200 hz blow the level of audibility while the automobile is moving at 75 mph?? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/redface.gif.62fdbfe1a101588a808c4cff71bcb942.gif

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

I'm bookmarking this as something we officially agree on. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif

Quite the contrary, Im learning alot about sound deadening from you. You've made me rethink many things I thought I already knew about the subject. But I can be stubborn sometimes. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif

 

[bigbangtheory 5,000+ posts]

Well, Bigbang, something is very clear to me about this whole conversation - and that is your constant comparison of non-deadening products to actual, real deadening products. You keep making the same mistake over and over, in my eyes. If you advocate Fatmat, you DO NOT advocate deadener - because Fatmat is not deadener. Get it?
But, as I said earlier (maybe it was another thread, i can't remember) there is such an incomplete and vague definition of what "deadener" is and does, that it's nothing but a never ending, circular argument.

And, again, for the record....I have mylar-backed asphat in my car for pealing and sealing. I also have deadener for deadening. I use them for what they are designed to do and don't waste my time, money or energy interchanging the two. Do what you want, but DON'T expect to get away with poor advice to others. I hate to sound like the "sound deadener" police, but this crap has to stop. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

You have said your peace and you talk to talk, but I am just stating my expierences with any "vibration mat." Is that better?

Sorry you can't sway me as I have not had any bad luck with any of the mats I have used, rather it was a deadening mat or not as you say. Fatmat has done as good a job as the hushmat, which I spent a butt-load on.

So you will sway the masses, which is fine. I will stick with the "cheap mat" and save. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

I am done debating with you as you seem to have gotten heated, lol!

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

You have said your peace and you talk to talk, but I am just stating my expierences with any "vibration mat." Is that better?
Sorry you can't sway me as I have not had any bad luck with any of the mats I have used, rather it was a deadening mat or not as you say. Fatmat has done as good a job as the hushmat, which I spent a butt-load on.

So you will sway the masses, which is fine. I will stick with the "cheap mat" and save. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

I am done debating with you as you seem to have gotten heated, lol!

Asphalt mat is inferior to butyl rubber mats. Setting failures and/or adhesion problems aside, the butyl products simply perform better than the asphalt products, alot better. Even a quick bit of research on the visceolastic properties of each material will make that plainly obvious. So you say asphalt works just as well because its never fallen off for you, and when you tap on your fender it thuds instead of pings. That does not prove it works as well as a butyl based product would, had you used it instead. Nor have you stated exactly what purpose you used the mat for. Again, mass loading, or sound dampening? If you just want a mass loader, I have a concrete recipe I can give you that works far better than any of these mats will. Otherwise, you are arguing against science, not just foxpro.
Cheers.

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

Oh, and I have had very good results with asphalt mat staying put in the past. The trick is to heat the crap out of it, as the glue is heat sensitive. Unfortunately, this also tends to break down the asphalt in the process. Yes it stayed stuck, and yes it made the fenders thud, but there is still no denying that a butyl mat would perform better in almost every way.

 

[bigbangtheory 5,000+ posts]

So if I have both butyl and asphalt in my car and both are staying on and both have that nice "thud" sound to it, then it is working correct? Only thing I have to worry about is the fatmat falling off? I have only mentioned it like 3 times already I know people who have had it last for years on their car and same with P&S.

So in my experience with the cheaper deadener, I have nothing bad to say besides maybe the smell of the fatmat, but it goes away. I also never once argued it wasn't asphalt. All I know is it has worked well for a couple people I know that have had it years and is working in my car as well.

And just for the record I have yet to use a heat gun in laying down any deadener and all have stayed on flawlessly and done thier job. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

So if I have both butyl and asphalt in my car and both are staying on and both have that nice "thud" sound to it, then it is working correct?

So any material that stays stuck, and creates that thud sound, is working just as good as any other material doing the same thing? Dude that's a way better argument than Don's scientific comparison (sound deadener showdown) or any of that scientific mumbo jumbo about the visceolastic properties of butyl mats.
Again if you simply want a mass loader, I have a sticky concrete recipe Id be glad to share with you, that will easily out perform any of these mats. It will stay stuck, give more 'thud', and cost less to boot. But then, there is more to sound deadening than just adding weight.

Sound deadening your car is not an attempt to make it "thud" if one of your friends happens to tap your sheet metal. Yet this, and the fact that it hasn't made its existance completely useless by failing entirely and falling off, are your sole criteria in your comparison.

 

[slapmaster 10+ year member]

i like ducktape. your trunk will be all silver and shinny and nobody will tell the difference........

jk.........damplifier pro ftw!!

 

[FoxPro5 5,000+ posts]

You have said your peace and you talk to talk, but I am just stating my expierences with any "vibration mat." Is that better?

Nope, strike three. It's not vibration mat. It's not vibration deadener. It's peal n seal. I'm starting to think that if i did the tap test on your skull there would be some serious hollow ringing going on up there. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

I've stated verifiable facts regarding the use of these products. You mix them together, which is wrong. You insist to keep doing it, which is wrong. Not IMO wrong; factual wrong. IMO, you are an idiot if you suggest the use of peal n seal (FatMat) to someone that asks for "deadener" advice - in the same why one might suggest the use of a screwdriver to pound in a nail, or a hammer to screw in a screw.

But hey, it's ca.com what can you expect, right? All anecdote, no science. Keep smoking your 11 packs a day, if you don't die of lung cancer than smoking is 'just fine.' //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif

 

[bigbangtheory 5,000+ posts]

Jesus you guys really need to chill the fawk out.

Foxpro, I am done with you and I don't smoke moron. Think what you will of me and use your smart *** analogys, it really don't affect me.

Audio, I am usually with you 99.9% of the time, but the fatmat has also improved my sound stage........... a lot! I get crisper highs and better bass response as well as it stopping the majority of the rattles. So it is doing what I intended it to do. Yeah at first I was skeptical, but not anymore.

You guys suggest what works for you, but in my expierence I have not one thing as of now to say about fatmat not working. Maybe one day down the road I will "E" insert my foot in my mouth, but both feet are on the ground firmly. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[Rudy 10+ year member]

Jesus you guys really need to chill the fawk out.
Foxpro, I am done with you and I don't smoke moron. Think what you will of me and use your smart *** analogys, it really don't affect me.

Audio, I am usually with you 99.9% of the time, but the fatmat has also improved my sound stage........... a lot! I get crisper highs and better bass response as well as it stopping the majority of the rattles. So it is doing what I intended it to do. Yeah at first I was skeptical, but not anymore.

You guys suggest what works for you, but in my expierence I have not one thing as of now to say about fatmat not working. Maybe one day down the road I will "E" insert my foot in my mouth, but both feet are on the ground firmly. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

Here's the problem. Nobody i saying that it isn't better than nothing. What we are saying is that in addition to being much less effective than the butyl alternatives, the potential for failure is extremely high. You don't believe it because it hasn't failed for you. I have seen numerous examples of failure and have had hundreds of failures reported to me. Your one case of short term use does not prove anything. Anecdotes about 3rd or 4th hand experiences of longer term success do not really prove anything either. You should feel free to do what you want and that includes accepting substandard performance and personal risk. You should not feel free to suggest to others that the course you have chosen is reliable and safe. I hope people understand the difference.

Where will you be if your FatMat fails. What will you say to the people you encouraged to follow suit? Why would you encourage people to spend more for FatMat when they can buy the same thing at Lowe's for less? You talk about us being broken records, but every time this topic comes up you try to have the last word with your - I used FatMat and it has held up fine. Then we have to squeeze the fact that it has only held up for a few months so far. I find it hard to believe that anybody would be so anxious to promote an overpriced product that will almost certainly cause a lot of heartache to others without being compensated in some way - or does misery just love company?

 

[FoxPro5 5,000+ posts]

Jesus you guys really need to chill the fawk out.

Actually, I think you need to chill the fawk out. Your emotional attachment to your peal n seal is clouting your judgment. Must have been the Fatmat VOC's. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/tongue.gif.6130eb82179565f6db8d26d6001dcd24.gif

I put peanut butter {mass} and bubble gum {elastic} all over my car and my soundstage improved....a lot! You're clearly not understanding my ridiculous analogies...or Ant's.

Trust me, I've use peal n seal in ways you probably haven't even considered. I have some on my heat shield on the bottom of my car...right next to the exhaust pipe and it hasn't moved in 4 years. Lucky me. And yes, I USED to actually think it was a butyl alternative...like many here have admitted. Then I pulled my head out of my fourth point of contact and studied up a bit on materials science.

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

Audio, I am usually with you 99.9% of the time, but the fatmat has also improved my sound stage........... a lot! I get crisper highs and better bass response as well as it stopping the majority of the rattles. So it is doing what I intended it to do. Yeah at first I was skeptical, but not anymore.

I understand, and Im glad its worked out for you. But the point is, had you used a butyl based mat, it would have worked better. Is the difference quantifiable? No, we cant expect you to tear off your aspahlt mat and replace it with butyl, to let us know the change. But when you factor in there WILL be a performance ioncrease with butyl mat, plus the lack of concern for heat exposure/failure, lack of concern for smell, etc etc... changing over to butyl based products is really a no-brainer to me.