How Many of You Are SAVED?

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I believe a lot of people have the feeling inside that there is something beyond themselves. Why else are they looking to Psychics, mediums and "spirit guides"? There's the big facination with angels nowadays and even the most formal, routine centered religions around the world are showing increased attendance. People are searching for answers, for hope.

The problem I find is most churches are ill equiped to help them. They offer them all these rules, routine and structure but don't minister to their actual needs. Shot after 20 years of walking with Christ I'm still human and there are still old addictions I can get derailed by if I'm not careful...even when I am careful! If I didn't have a God and a community I could go to and be real, faults and all, then I'd still be wandering around "looking for love in all the wrong places" trying to find happiness in every little thing that can only offer shades of it temporarily. When the church stops being a place you have to be all perfect and prissy and starts being the Hospital Jesus said it should be, then we wouldn't have such a hatred for "religion" and so many people leaving feeling as though they still haven't found what they're looking for.

BTW DBFan, my rock and metal collection is extensive, though I don't know if you'd recognize most the artists. Maybe P.O.D. and Switchfoot...perhaps Thousand Foot Crutch?

 
I believe a lot of people have the feeling inside that there is something beyond themselves. Why else are they looking to Psychics, mediums and "spirit guides"? There's the big facination with angels nowadays and even the most formal, routine centered religions around the world are showing increased attendance. People are searching for answers, for hope.
The problem I find is most churches are ill equiped to help them. They offer them all these rules, routine and structure but don't minister to their actual needs. Shot after 20 years of walking with Christ I'm still human and there are still old addictions I can get derailed by if I'm not careful...even when I am careful! If I didn't have a God and a community I could go to and be real, faults and all, then I'd still be wandering around "looking for love in all the wrong places" trying to find happiness in every little thing thing that can only offer shades of it temporarily. When the church stops being a place you have to be all perfect and prissy and starts being the Hospital Jesus said it should be, then we wouldn't have such a hatred for "religion" and so many people leaving feeling as though they still haven't found what they're looking for.
Preach brother, preach...

 
Uh, would you rather it be written by a deer?
Um, yes, yes I would.
And now for the meat and potatos...

OK so, here is the earth, just chilling. **** that is a sweet Earth you might say, WRONG! oops sorry I got distracted. OOoooo a shiny object...

-"God"-

I believe in something larger than we can really understand, that for the sake of argument we will call god.

-"Hey-zoos"-

I believe that jesus was a real person and that he wasn't just another guy. I believe alot of the stuff about him, but I don't think he's nearly as key as the christian right would make him out to be. Jesus was a good person and he set a good example. And the shroud of tourin (SP?) is real too. And a good PBS special might I add.

-the Bible-

Tainted by the church and told in a way that is exaggerated, alot of crap cannot be taken word for word. Some of it may be true, but it's not that important.

-Religion-

I've been to church, I've given it a chance. But CHURCH IS FAKE AND IS KEPT FOR FAKE PEOPLE. I'm sick of people flailing the arms up and acting like they're so happy that they're gonna piss all over themselves... they're just full of ****, sorry it's the truth. They'll spend all ******* day lecturing me about the joys of jesus christ, instead of going out and following his example.

Religion and church were set up to tell ignorant people who to be, and while I commend them for generally teaching people to be good, they also teach them to basicly fear the wrath of god and that their way is the ONLY way.

I have more good points, but I also have alot of ADD, and I'm surrounded by shiny objects, so I'll save my thoughts.

ooo a penny....

 
-the Bible-Tainted by the church and told in a way that is exaggerated, alot of crap cannot be taken word for word. Some of it may be true, but it's not that important.

^^^ My point exactly //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif Sure, people and places mentioned in the bible may have existed. I'll even give you this one; Jesus lived aswell. However, that doesn't make him the son of God. And that doesn't mean all the events and details of those events are true. There's just as much science against the bible as there is for it.

 
^^^ My point exactly //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif Sure, people and places mentioned in the bible may have existed. I'll even give you this one; Jesus lived aswell. However, that doesn't make him the son of God. And that doesn't mean all the events and details of those events are true. There's just as much science against the bible as there is for it.

-"Hey-zoos"-

I believe that jesus was a real person and that he wasn't just another guy. I believe alot of the stuff about him, but I don't think he's nearly as key as the christian right would make him out to be. Jesus was a good person and he set a good example. And the shroud of tourin (SP?) is real too. And a good PBS special might I add.

-the Bible-

Tainted by the church and told in a way that is exaggerated, alot of crap cannot be taken word for word. Some of it may be true, but it's not that important.

-Religion-

I've been to church, I've given it a chance. But CHURCH IS FAKE AND IS KEPT FOR FAKE PEOPLE. I'm sick of people flailing the arms up and acting like they're so happy that they're gonna piss all over themselves... they're just full of ****, sorry it's the truth. They'll spend all ******* day lecturing me about the joys of jesus christ, instead of going out and following his example.

Religion and church were set up to tell ignorant people who to be, and while I commend them for generally teaching people to be good, they also teach them to basicly fear the wrath of god and that their way is the ONLY way.

Good points guys, and frequently made ones at that. However, there is more then enough explanation to be had. Of all the evidence, there is more for the resurection of Jesus Christ then for nearly every other part of the Bible (which is saying a lot), evidence again colaborated by those who were against him. If he was "just a good person" then how do you explain him coming back from the dead after 3 days? Additionally, he claimed that he was not only the Son of God, but that he and God were one (meaning he was God as well). Many have made this claim and been labeled lunnies (and rightly so), but all four records of his life, written from different people, i.e. different perspectives have been examined by multiple Psychologists and Psychiatrists and he has not been found to exhibit any of the traits that are indicative to any kind of mental disorder. In fact he was labeled by more then one to be "the most sane man to ever live". He couldn't have been a "good person" and yet claim to be God unless he was whack or telling the truth. Considering his claim made him very unpopular with not only his own people but the ruling Roman empire at the time and would lead to one of the most brutal deaths concieved by man (crucifixtion was engineered to be the most torturous form of death by the Romans), what reason would he have for lying? It didn't gain him anything but misery during his life here. Would you endure torture and death for something you knew inside wasn't the truth?

So far as the records themselves go, it was due to "legend" and "myth" beginning to be taught besides the original teachings of Christ and letters of his disciples that the Bible was canonized in the first place. I whole idea was to KEEP it from getting tainted. There are many books that offered legitimate historical record that were not used simply because they also contained man made legends or basically didn't directly relate. Only the most pertinate and authentic records were kept. When archeologists found the Dead Sea Scrolls, copies of the originals dating back to within decades of the actual events of Christ's life, death and resurection were found. If you don't study history then you don't understand how unprecidented this is. Most records of this age are closer to a hundred or more years from their actual events. My point is outside of standing there and witnessing it yourself, you cannot get much more untainted then this! On top of this, the jews are renowned for their meticulously accurate recording. It was and is a matter of principal with them. In that culture, especially during this time period, any Jewish teacher worth his salt not only put everything in writting but commited it to mermory. It is common practice for Rabbi's to memorize the entire Torah (old Testament). Jesus follower's took that a step further and recorded facts that were embaressing, unflattering and from origins considered unreliable in that time and culture in an effort to be accurate. Is that something people who wanted to persuade you into following them would do?

With all the different translations and paraphrases (hundreds) of the Bible available today, there is not one major doctrinal or historical difference between them. That is because the material they are derived from is just that untainted.

 
Good points guys, and frequently made ones at that. However, there is more then enough explanation to be had. Of all the evidence, there is more for the resurection of Jesus Christ then for nearly every other part of the Bible (which is saying a lot), evidence again colaborated by those who were against him. If he was "just a good person" then how do you explain him coming back from the dead after 3 days? Additionally, he claimed that he was not only the Son of God, but that he and God were one (meaning he was God as well). Many have made this claim and been labeled lunnies (and rightly so), but all four records of his life, written from different people, i.e. different perspectives have been examined by multiple Psychologists and Psychiatrists and he has not been found to exhibit any of the traits that are indicative to any kind of mental disorder. In fact he was labeled by more then one to be "the most sane man to ever live". He couldn't have been a "good person" and yet claim to be God unless he was whack or telling the truth. Considering his claim made him very unpopular with not only his own people but the ruling Roman empire at the time and would lead to one of the most brutal deaths concieved by man (crucifixtion was engineered to be the most torturous form of death by the Romans), what reason would he have for lying? It didn't gain him anything but misery during his life here. Would you endure torture and death for something you knew inside wasn't the truth?
So far as the records themselves go, it was due to "legend" and "myth" beginning to be taught besides the original teachings of Christ and letters of his disciples that the Bible was canonized in the first place. I whole idea was to KEEP it from getting tainted. There are many books that offered legitimate historical record that were not used simply because they also contained man made legends or basically didn't directly relate. Only the most pertinate and authentic records were kept. When archeologists found the Dead Sea Scrolls, copies of the originals dating back to within decades of the actual events of Christ's life, death and resurection were found. If you don't study history then you don't understand how unprecidented this is. Most records of this age are closer to a hundred or more years from their actual events. My point is outside of standing there and witnessing it yourself, you cannot get much more untainted then this! On top of this, the jews are renowned for their meticulously accurate recording. It was and is a matter of principal with them. In that culture, especially during this time period, any Jewish teacher worth his salt not only put everything in writting but commited it to mermory. It is common practice for Rabbi's to memorize the entire Torah (old Testament). Jesus follower's took that a step further and recorded facts that were embaressing, unflattering and from origins considered unreliable in that time and culture in an effort to be accurate. Is that something people who wanted to persuade you into following them would do?

With all the different translations and paraphrases (hundreds) of the Bible available today, there is not one major doctrinal or historical difference between them. That is because the material they are derived from is just that untainted.
do i smell lee Strobel?

 
Thank "god" for you. No! Thank, the miracle of human evolution that lets you think things through. Better yet thank knowone, and just except the truth. All beliefs of humans exist in our thoughts, in our minds. If the sun just exploded in 8 min. all would all be vaporized into space faster than you can think. No meaning, no truth, no jesus. ALL GONE and wed never even know. Religion, politiics, god, right and wrong, hate, love and all language based beliefs of human kind is forever erased. God doesnt do jack crap. Noone's prayers are awnsered and we are all living the only life we have. An afterlife??? Doesn't work that way, and heaven and hell is just wishfull thinking for those that are to weak to ecxept mortality. Life is a gift, dont **** on it with some ignorant ass ********.

That's your opinion. So I guess you're saying whoever doesn't come to the same conclusion as you wasn't involved in the human evolution that allows this way of thinking.

Well personally I'm glad that I'm not a part of that new evolved thinking process.

 
do i smell lee Strobel?
Lee's books compile a lot of information from various areas to give a pretty laymen's summary of research already known and researched by others. It's not just his work or his opinion. The reason I like him is he doesn't assume a result. His theory is that "the truth, if it is really the truth, will stand up to scrutiny". He cross examines experts with their disputer's toughest and most frequently asked questions. He doesn't provide a cake walk for a particular side and he doesn't pull punches.

There are many other authors that have good reads. Josh McDowell has written several books. The "Evidence That Demands A Verdict" series is probably his most notable.

Michael J. Behe's "Darwin's Black Box" is another well known best-seller, by a respected Bio-Chemist.

Like many, Lee is just a messenger, he didn't create the facts themselves. He just relays them.

 
Did you just not even read what I wrote about the shroud of tourin? I'm sure you have to know what it is so then you obviously realized that I was aknowledging the resurrection which I belive happened. That still doesn't make him the son of god or whatever, just makes him special. I still don't believe that Jesus has to be the focal point of my beliefs for me to be viewed as a good person in the eyes of god.

and to all the bible pushers out there, here's a thought. Do you think Jesus would be hassling me like you do? not directed at anyone in particular, just wanted to say it.

 
I still don't believe that Jesus has to be the focal point of my beliefs for me to be viewed as a good person in the eyes of god.

and to all the bible pushers out there, here's a thought. Do you think Jesus would be hassling me like you do? not directed at anyone in particular, just wanted to say it.

I think Jesus would tell you the truth so you can make an educated decision for yourself (with the brain and free will He gave you). BTW, just what is a "good person in the eyes of God"? What standard does God use? I mean just cuz you're better then Hitler or better then the guy down the street you're a "good person"? Jesus has already answered this question for us. According to him, God has one unchanging standard, it is the way God made us in the beginning before sin, i.e. perfect. God is not like us, He doesn't grade on a curve. He is perfect, an absolute. Mix perfection with imperfection and either the perfect destroys the imperfect or the imperfect polutes the perfect making it imperfect as well. Since nothing can polute God, imperfection cannot exist in the pressence of perfection. This is why Jesus had to become a man, live a life without sin and then offer that life up to the Father in our place. He paid our price. If we could gain God's approval by being a "good person", Jesus would not have had to die. It is a gift He offers and we choose to accept or reject it. I'm not trying to hassle you, I'm just trying to give you the facts so you can make an educated decision.

 
If he was "just a good person" then how do you explain him coming back from the dead after 3 days?

Maybe he had a tough week at the office and wanted to go away for the weekend, so he faked his death. His distraught family then wrote a book about him to ease their suffering ( the bible).

hell for all we know MJ could be the mother ****ing resurected jesus dude

 
hell for all we know MJ could be the mother ****ing resurected jesus dude
If that's all you know then it's because you've choosen not to look into it. It's not because the evidence isn't there.

Many more educated minds have sought to prove that Jesus or his disciples some how faked his death and resurection. None have been able to do it.

 
That's admirable, believe me. I'm not belittling being a good person or having a good heart. But it's not up to the creation to tell the creator what should be "good enough". God's not trying to argue with you and niether am I. He know's NONE of us could be "good enough" that's why he came and did it Himself. That way His perfect love for us and His perfect justice for sin could both be satisfied. It's not condemnation and it's not work, it's a gift. I'm not trying to beat you with it, just help you see it for what it is.

 
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