HELP Choosing tweeters to Pair with ds18 midrange

Either sub is fine. Get the biggest one you can fit at the price you can afford. As for the wattage distribution, it's doesn't work like that. The power to run above 3k Hz is only about 10% of the total power needed for the full system. Relatively speaking, the wattage at max is 125 x4, the tweeter in one each of those corners account for about 10-12 watts. The rating on the actual driver, is relative to what they can handle, not what they are given. The crossovers that you will install for the speakers will take care of dividing the frequencies between the two drivers, nothing else to do for that, install, them hook them up. good to go' The issue you speak of, is not rectified by use of a mid driver. The issue is related to lower frequencies playing in the midbass drivers that they really not designed to handle. Setting the crossover on the amp will take care of that issue. for the front and rear speakers, you'll select the HP (high-pass) setting and I would initially set them at 75-80hz for the front and 200 hz for the rears as that is the fixed HP frequency for channels 1/2. Your subs will pick up from there. I would not go any higher than that given that your sub will be in a trunk and trying to get it to play up to the higher midbass frequencies will be difficult mounted in the trunk. One other note, for $9 more can get the matching Recoil mono sub amp (recommended) which puts out more power allowing you to set the gains a little more conservatively insuring that you have extra headroom and the amp won't have to work so hard.

Amazon product ASIN B0BZ4JS2Y1
I'm kinda guessing but looking at the amps I would initially set them as follows:

THe 4 channel:

Channels 1/2 set the HP filter to "ON" and run channels 1/2 to your rear speakers. For channels 3/4, set the HP filter to on and put it right around 12 o'clock

The Sub amp:

Subsonic at around noon on the dial, the LP filter at about 1 0'clock

BASS boost, I never use these at all but that is not to say it maynot help in your car. You should leave it at the lowest position and play with it (preferably sit in the car, at modest levels and have someone turn it up and down until you can see if you like it) to see if you like what it does for you.

As for the gains, if you don't have the ability or the knowhow to set them, it would be advised to watch a LOT of vids or flip the local installer at the local shop a cool $20 and have them check/set them for you. ;)
 
Last edited:
Either sub is fine. Get the biggest one you can fit at the price you can afford. As for the wattage distribution, it's doesn't work like that. The power to run above 3k Hz is only about 10% of the total power needed for the full system. Relatively speaking, the wattage at max is 125 x4, the tweeter in one each of those corners account for about 10-12 watts. The rating on the actual driver, is relative to what they can handle, not what they are given. The crossovers that you will install for the speakers will take care of dividing the frequencies between the two drivers, nothing else to do for that, install, them hook them up. good to go' The issue you speak of, is not rectified by use of a mid driver. The issue is related to lower frequencies playing in the midbass drivers that they really not designed to handle. Setting the crossover on the amp will take care of that issue. for the front and rear speakers, you'll select the HP (high-pass) setting and I would initially set them at 75-80hz for the front and 200 hz for the rears as that is the fixed HP frequency for channels 1/2. Your subs will pick up from there. I would not go any higher than that given that your sub will be in a trunk and trying to get it to play up to the higher midbass frequencies will be difficult mounted in the trunk. One other note, for $9 more can get the matching Recoil mono sub amp (recommended) which puts out more power allowing you to set the gains a little more conservatively insuring that you have extra headroom and the amp won't have to work so hard.

Amazon product ASIN B0BZ4JS2Y1
I'm kinda guessing but looking at the amps I would initially set them as follows:

THe 4 channel:

Channels 1/2 set the HP filter to "ON" and run channels 1/2 to your rear speakers. For channels 3/4, set the HP filter to on and put it right around 12 o'clock

The Sub amp:

Subsonic at around noon on the dial, the LP filter at about 1 0'clock

BASS boost, I never use these at all but that is not to say it maynot help in your car. You should leave it at the lowest position and play with it (preferably sit in the car, at modest levels and have someone turn it up and down until you can see if you like it) to see if you like what it does for you.

As for the gains, if you don't have the ability or the knowhow to set them, it would be advised to watch a LOT of vids or flip the local installer at the local shop a cool $20 and have them check/set them for you. ;)
Thanks so much, very helpful. If you don't mind, could you link the recoil amp for the subs?
 
The obsession with pro style mids is from frustration of not being able to play bass heavy songs through the speakers loudly and having speakers that play unneeded bass when I have subwoofers allready.
This is from turning bass boost and other generic bass settings on at the head unit. If you have a 13 band eq or more, than you can adjust it for SOUND QUALITY ONLY.
All that other "BASS BOOST" settings do, is increase the voltage/db at a frequency range that never really happens at the perfect range that the rest of the speakers are so unless you can get a High Pass Filter set right, you get bass frequencies bleeding into the mids, and that frequency range has a higher voltage.
Set the head unit setting so mids and tweets sound good........
Then set the voltage/gain at the sub amp to RMS or a bit more.
Your head unit might increase the voltage at the subpreout, but it might just be trying to increase the voltage.
You don't want increased bass going out from the head unit, you want to turn it up at the amp, (after it splits to which speakers it's going to). You will accomplish the exact same thing, but you will keep the bass out of the mids. That or you need to have your HPF (high pass filters) set on the amp, or other way so it's out of the mids.


Check this place out for deals:
They have a Focal TN 41 tweeter for $40 a pair, and a $40 focal crossover, that I THINK were part of the same component set when sold.

They have some JL ZR 5 1/4s for $240, (which is an $800 set of components when you buy em together). NO CLUE if those would work well together. You would need to find frequencies and wattage).
Most of the deals are because of discontinued models, but who really cares?

It sounds like you learned the better way to do this is just use components, and just get any 4ch @ 4ohm amp. Budget is clearly a concern, and unless you have rear passengers regularly, that you want them to hear the music just like in the front, IMO, at least CONSIDER just getting a better set of components up front, and get a set of budget coaxials for the rear. You can always upgrade em later. If you get an amp with a gain adjustment for ch 1/2 and separately for 3/4, you don't even need them to have the same wattage for the sets, making shopping a lot easier.


Black Friday is about to have a lot of audio deals. Might be worth holding out a little longer.


Just curious, you have a smaller budget, and chose DS18. I think those have a reputation for being more of an SPL speaker. You really have to pick one at that budget, do you want clarity or volume?
 
Last edited:
This is from turning bass boost and other generic bass settings on at the head unit. If you have a 13 band eq or more, than you can adjust it for SOUND QUALITY ONLY.
All that other "BASS BOOST" settings do, is increase the voltage/db at a frequency range that never really happens at the perfect range that the rest of the speakers are so unless you can get a High Pass Filter set right, you get bass frequencies bleeding into the mids, and that frequency range has a higher voltage.
Set the head unit setting so mids and tweets sound good........
Then set the voltage/gain at the sub amp to RMS or a bit more.
Your head unit might increase the voltage at the subpreout, but it might just be trying to increase the voltage.
You don't want increased bass going out from the head unit, you want to turn it up at the amp, (after it splits to which speakers it's going to). You will accomplish the exact same thing, but you will keep the bass out of the mids. That or you need to have your HPF (high pass filters) set on the amp, or other way so it's out of the mids.


Check this place out for deals:
They have a Focal TN 41 tweeter for $40 a pair, and a $40 focal crossover, that I THINK were part of the same component set when sold.

They have some JL ZR 5 1/4s for $240, (which is an $800 set of components when you buy em together). NO CLUE if those would work well together. You would need to find frequencies and wattage).
Most of the deals are because of discontinued models, but who really cares?

It sounds like you learned the better way to do this is just use components, and just get any 4ch @ 4ohm amp. Budget is clearly a concern, and unless you have rear passengers regularly, that you want them to hear the music just like in the front, IMO, at least CONSIDER just getting a better set of components up front, and get a set of budget coaxials for the rear. You can always upgrade em later. If you get an amp with a gain adjustment for ch 1/2 and separately for 3/4, you don't even need them to have the same wattage for the sets, making shopping a lot easier.


Black Friday is about to have a lot of audio deals. Might be worth holding out a little longer.


Just curious, you have a smaller budget, and chose DS18. I think those have a reputation for being more of an SPL speaker. You really have to pick one at that budget, do you want clarity or volume?
Hi, thanks for taking the time to respond. If you look at previous threads, me and doxquzme have pretty much got the whole system dialed in. If you'd like, you could see the system that we choose to put in the car in the other threads, would love to hear your feedback on it.

Reason I initially choose the ds18, was because I wanted it to be ear splitting loud. I figured I can use them and be fine with quality since I would have a subwoofer. The main problem iv since noticed with them is they wouldn't sound good alone even with a subwoofer. They would need to be paired together with big super tweeters and bigger mid ranges. This just wouldn't work in my car even if budget was not an issue.

I have, however (see previous threads) decided to go with the NVX V series 5.25" components and put 4 all around. For 4 speakers and 4 tweeters and crossovers, it would be under $200 and they seem to have very loyal fans. They would be paired with a 4 channel amp and tuned correctly.
 
Hi, thanks for taking the time to respond. If you look at previous threads, me and doxquzme have pretty much got the whole system dialed in. If you'd like, you could see the system that we choose to put in the car in the other threads, would love to hear your feedback on it.

Reason I initially choose the ds18, was because I wanted it to be ear splitting loud. I figured I can use them and be fine with quality since I would have a subwoofer. The main problem iv since noticed with them is they wouldn't sound good alone even with a subwoofer. They would need to be paired together with big super tweeters and bigger mid ranges. This just wouldn't work in my car even if budget was not an issue.

I have, however (see previous threads) decided to go with the NVX V series 5.25" components and put 4 all around. For 4 speakers and 4 tweeters and crossovers, it would be under $200 and they seem to have very loyal fans. They would be paired with a 4 channel amp and tuned correctly.
That's awesome! I think once you get them dialed in, crossed over correctly, you'll come to appreciate the articulate (loud enough) sound that accurate reproduction will give you. It's a lot easier to just get loud but not desirable if really want to hear your music.
 
That's awesome! I think once you get them dialed in, crossed over correctly, you'll come to appreciate the articulate (loud enough) sound that accurate reproduction will give you. It's a lot easier to just get loud but not desirable if really want to hear your music.
Quick question, what gauge wire and how many amps for the fuse for the 4 channel amp. Also I noticed the subwoofer has both input and output plugs for the rca's. Do I just use the input and ignore the output ones. I'm thinking of running 3 rca cables to the trunk, 1 for channel 1&2, 2 for channel 3&4, 3 for subs.

(4 channel amp) Amazon product ASIN B0BZ4JS2Y1
 
Assuming a 12 foot run, you could get away with 2-4 gauge, any further you're on the cusp. I would use a 1/0 gauge kit, fuse it 18" from the battery.

This the most cost effective I could find and it includes an inline fuse:

Amazon product ASIN B074K5DL2X
That fuse is really about preventing fires from overheated wire, not protecting the equipment. Once you get that to the rear amplifier(s) location, then split it with a dual mini anl fuse block, run 4 gauge off the block to the separate amps. Something like this:

Amazon product ASIN B097T5T1TB
Amazon product ASIN B08K3N8C8G
Each feed will use a fuse relative to the amps individual combined rating, the 1200.1would get a a 100A fuse and the 800.4 gets a 70A fuse - nice andtidey.

I you have 6 RCS outs from the HU, then you are doing that part correctly. Run them to their respective channels paying attention to what I advised initially in regards to what channel to use for front and rear due to the differences in the x-over flexibilities. Once everything is dialed in, you'll still have control over things like right and left, front to back, etc, from the hu when done this way. The reason for the RCA out is so that you can run a single or dual RCA to the one amp and pass the signal on to the other. In situations where you are using a single or dual LOC out from the OEM HU, then you might use that setup, not for what you are doing if I recall.

Oh snap, looks like the 1200.1 is down to 102.99!

Amazon product ASIN B0C9SQ7G9N
 
Assuming a 12 foot run, you could get away with 2-4 gauge, any further you're on the cusp. I would use a 1/0 gauge kit, fuse it 18" from the battery.

This the most cost effective I could find and it includes an inline fuse:

Amazon product ASIN B074K5DL2X
That fuse is really about preventing fires from overheated wire, not protecting the equipment. Once you get that to the rear amplifier(s) location, then split it with a dual mini anl fuse block, run 4 gauge off the block to the separate amps. Something like this:

Amazon product ASIN B097T5T1TB
Amazon product ASIN B08K3N8C8G
Each feed will use a fuse relative to the amps individual combined rating, the 1200.1would get a a 100A fuse and the 800.4 gets a 70A fuse - nice andtidey.

I you have 6 RCS outs from the HU, then you are doing that part correctly. Run them to their respective channels paying attention to what I advised initially in regards to what channel to use for front and rear due to the differences in the x-over flexibilities. Once everything is dialed in, you'll still have control over things like right and left, front to back, etc, from the hu when done this way. The reason for the RCA out is so that you can run a single or dual RCA to the one amp and pass the signal on to the other. In situations where you are using a single or dual LOC out from the OEM HU, then you might use that setup, not for what you are doing if I recall.

Oh snap, looks like the 1200.1 is down to 102.99!

Amazon product ASIN B0C9SQ7G9N
I think you linked the wrong amp. The subwoofer is 1 ohm, that amp only does 2-4 ohm. I am going to list the exact system Im doing below just to confirm it with you.

Amazon product ASIN B09D2GSBGB
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0BZ4JS2Y1/?tag=caraudiocom-20

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00N84TRRW/?tag=caraudiocom-20

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08TBSYYCX/?tag=caraudiocom-20



The di800.4 is currently unavaible now. Do you know if it will ever be back? I want to use that particular amp because I all ready ordered the other recoil amp. Also what gauge wire does that amp take (di800.4)? Also, is a 120 amp fuse good for the subwoofer amp? Thanks!
 
THe 4 channel is 2-4 ohms stable and is available on the Recoil site, direct.


$125.99

The RED 1200.1 is 1 ohm stable so you're good to go on that too.
 
Last edited:
THe 4 channel is 2-4 ohms stable and is available on the Recoil site, direct.


$125.99

The RED 1200.1 is 1 ohm stable so you're good to go on that too.
80 Amp fuse on the mono amp, 70 on the 4 channel. 200-250 on the fuse near the battery. You could run 4-8 gauge from the fused distro block to the 4 channel. 4, gauge to the sub amp, 4 gauge to both preferably. Pic up a ANL fuse rated at 200-250A, the 120 that is comes with is a little on the smallish side. At the very least it should be no less than the combined or 150A.
 
Last edited:
80 Amp fuse on the mono amp, 70 on the 4 channel. 200-250 on the fuse near the battery. You could run 4-8 gauge from the fused distro block to the 4 channel. 4, gauge to the sub amp, 4 gauge to both preferably. Pic up a ANL fuse rated at 200-250A, the 120 that is comes with is a little on the smallish side. At the very least it should be no less than the combined or 150A.
Hey, I got all my stuff in the mail and im halfway done with the project, for a bmw, the wiring hasnt been too bad surprisingly. Just a few questions if you have a moment.

1. For my remote wire, could I use one wire and then split it into 2 wires in the trunk for the amps?
2. What decibel setting should I select on the crossover switches?
3. Would you know of a 2 screw adapter that would alow me to install the 1" (a little more with the housing) nvx tweeter in a 2.5" speaker hole?
4. What size spade connecter should I use for the Nvx speakers and tweeters?
5. I like to run my rcas on the opposite side of the car from the power wires. Should I do the same with a bass knob wire and remote wire?
5. What gauge wire and how many amp fuse do you recommend for the head unite listed below? Also, do you think its a good choice of head unite for this setup, my buddies car came with one and its fantastic. Also, should I disable the built in amp in the head unite since im hooking it up to external amps or can I just ignore it since I won't be using those terminals.
6. Would that head unite fit in my bmw e34 without a dash kit?
7. Im running 16 gauge wire for the speakers and tweeters, is that good?


Its a ton of questions, only answer if you have the time, you have been very helpfull! Thanks.
 
Last edited:
Hey, I got all my stuff in the mail and im halfway done with the project, for a bmw, the wiring hasnt been too bad surprisingly. Just a few questions if you have a moment.

1. For my remote wire, could I use one wire and then split it into 2 wires in the trunk for the amps?
2. What decibel setting should I select on the crossover switches?
3. Would you know of a 2 screw adapter that would alow me to install the 1" (a little more with the housing) nvx tweeter in a 2.5" speaker hole?
4. What size spade connecter should I use for the Nvx speakers and tweeters?
5. I like to run my rcas on the opposite side of the car from the power wires. Should I do the same with a bass knob wire and remote wire?
5. What gauge wire and how many amp fuse do you recommend for the head unite listed below? Also, do you think its a good choice of head unite for this setup, my buddies car came with one and its fantastic.
6. Would that head unite fit in my bmw e34 without a dash kit?
7. Im running 16 gauge wire for the speakers and tweeters, is that good?


Its a ton of questions, only answer if you have the time, you have been very helpful! Thanks.

Q: For my remote wire, could I use one wire and then split it into 2 wires in the trunk for the amps?
A: Yes you can (easy enough to piggy back one to the other as well if it is easier and looks okay).

Q: What decibel setting should I select on the crossover switches?
Q: I think you mean frequencies?
A:
I listed most of the setting earlier as follows:

The 4 channel:

Channels 1/2 set the HP filter to "ON" and run channels 1/2 to your rear speakers. For channels 3/4, set the HP filter to on and put it right around 12 o'clock

The Sub amp:

Subsonic at around noon on the dial, the LP filter at about 1 0'clock

BASS boost, I never use these at all but that is not to say it maynot help in your car. You should leave it at the lowest position and play with it (preferably sit in the car, at modest levels and have someone turn it up and down until you can see if you like it) to see if you like what it does for you.

As for the gains, if you don't have the ability or the knowhow to set them, it would be advised to watch a LOT of vids or flip the local installer at the local shop a cool $20 and have them check/set them for

Q: 3. Would you know of a 2 screw adapter that would allow me to install the 1" (a little more with the housing) nvx tweeter in a 2.5" speaker hole?
A: if you mean something like these:

(these are actually for a 2007 Camry, not your BMW) but you get the idea...

Amazon product ASIN B01N2J8892
I would make a template out of thick paper. I usually make custom ones out of 1/8" or 1/4" hardboard. Some people just cut a hole in the factory grill or pillar and use a thin adhesive or hot glue- personally not fan as it can get warm here in Idaho and I've seen HG come undone) to secure the tweeters, not sure where you intend to put yours, but making your own plate is pretty easy,

Q: What size spade connecter should I use for the Nvx speakers and tweeters?
A: Not sure, you'll have to measure but they are pretty standardized. Just take one of the tweeters to the local hardware store, tell the the wire you are using and show them the connections on the tweeter. I solder all my speaker wire conncetions then tape them up - I just am old school that way. You can also call NVX and ask, they have decent enough tech support.

M-F
Phone: (213) 444-1689
Email: sales@nvx.com

Q: I like to run my rcas on the opposite side of the car from the power wires. Should I do the same with a bass knob wire and remote wire?
A: It's a good idea to run all power on one side and signal on the other. Most car audio RCAs and a lot of car audio speaker wire is twisted pair construction. This minimizes the issue in the first place. If you can, then run them separately. Rule of thumb, if the power and the signal wire must cross, cross them at 90 degree angles, don't run them side by side (parallel to each other).

Q: What gauge wire and how many amp fuse do you recommend for the head unite listed below? Also, do you think its a good choice of head unite for this setup, my buddies car came with one and its fantastic.
A: Kenwood makes decent enough stuff out there for sure, I'm not familiar with that unit, guess you'll find out! The unit should already have a fuse within the factory harness, no need to add anything else for the HU.

Q: Would that head unite fit in my bmw e34 without a dash kit?
A: If the opening is the same size single din, oit should, COmpared it to another Kenwood single din deck and Crutchfiled said it isn't needed.

Q: Im running 16 gauge wire for the speakers and tweeters, is that good?
A: Yes. I would get some 12 gauge for the subs like this OFC copper wire:

Amazon product ASIN B01ABOPMEI
 
Q: For my remote wire, could I use one wire and then split it into 2 wires in the trunk for the amps?
A: Yes you can (easy enough to piggy back one to the other as well if it is easier and looks okay).

Q: What decibel setting should I select on the crossover switches?
Q: I think you mean frequencies?
A:
I listed most of the setting earlier as follows:

The 4 channel:

Channels 1/2 set the HP filter to "ON" and run channels 1/2 to your rear speakers. For channels 3/4, set the HP filter to on and put it right around 12 o'clock

The Sub amp:

Subsonic at around noon on the dial, the LP filter at about 1 0'clock

BASS boost, I never use these at all but that is not to say it maynot help in your car. You should leave it at the lowest position and play with it (preferably sit in the car, at modest levels and have someone turn it up and down until you can see if you like it) to see if you like what it does for you.

As for the gains, if you don't have the ability or the knowhow to set them, it would be advised to watch a LOT of vids or flip the local installer at the local shop a cool $20 and have them check/set them for

Q: 3. Would you know of a 2 screw adapter that would allow me to install the 1" (a little more with the housing) nvx tweeter in a 2.5" speaker hole?
A: if you mean something like these:

(these are actually for a 2007 Camry, not your BMW) but you get the idea...

Amazon product ASIN B01N2J8892
I would make a template out of thick paper. I usually make custom ones out of 1/8" or 1/4" hardboard. Some people just cut a hole in the factory grill or pillar and use a thin adhesive or hot glue- personally not fan as it can get warm here in Idaho and I've seen HG come undone) to secure the tweeters, not sure where you intend to put yours, but making your own plate is pretty easy,

Q: What size spade connecter should I use for the Nvx speakers and tweeters?
A: Not sure, you'll have to measure but they are pretty standardized. Just take one of the tweeters to the local hardware store, tell the the wire you are using and show them the connections on the tweeter. I solder all my speaker wire conncetions then tape them up - I just am old school that way. You can also call NVX and ask, they have decent enough tech support.

M-F
Phone: (213) 444-1689
Email: sales@nvx.com

Q: I like to run my rcas on the opposite side of the car from the power wires. Should I do the same with a bass knob wire and remote wire?
A: It's a good idea to run all power on one side and signal on the other. Most car audio RCAs and a lot of car audio speaker wire is twisted pair construction. This minimizes the issue in the first place. If you can, then run them separately. Rule of thumb, if the power and the signal wire must cross, cross them at 90 degree angles, don't run them side by side (parallel to each other).

Q: What gauge wire and how many amp fuse do you recommend for the head unite listed below? Also, do you think its a good choice of head unite for this setup, my buddies car came with one and its fantastic.
A: Kenwood makes decent enough stuff out there for sure, I'm not familiar with that unit, guess you'll find out! The unit should already have a fuse within the factory harness, no need to add anything else for the HU.

Q: Would that head unite fit in my bmw e34 without a dash kit?
A: If the opening is the same size single din, oit should, COmpared it to another Kenwood single din deck and Crutchfiled said it isn't needed.

Q: Im running 16 gauge wire for the speakers and tweeters, is that good?
A: Yes. I would get some 12 gauge for the subs like this OFC copper wire:

Amazon product ASIN B01ABOPMEI
Many thanks. Just fyi, I was referring to this crossover adjustment thats inside the nvx tweeters.


Wont let me post a picture, but if you click this link you'll see it on the third picture of the listing.
 
Last edited:
Many thanks. Just fyi, I was referring to this crossover adjustment thats inside the nvx tweeters.


Wont let me post a picture, but if you click this link you'll see it on the third picture of the listing.
Ah, okay, been awhile since I looked at that xover (had to go look at a set I have), running active, don't use them anymore. When I do use them I usually mount the crossovers in the upper kick panel out of the way but accessible, run the leads to the two components. That way I can get to them and can play with the setting. If that is not possible, you'll want to test them out before you decide. I usually leave then on 0 then if they seem to loud, compared to the 6.5" I change it to -3. It's a Subtle difference but a difference nonetheless.
 
Activity
No one is currently typing a reply...

Similar threads

Your image doesn't really show anything. That could be 3 different head units for all we know, but I think it's 2 different add-ons. It sounds...
3
940
Not at all, amplifiers have gain control to attenuate the output to safe levels.
6
1K
I've moved this post to installations. Can't work out how to delete it here.
0
707

About this thread

coopermidrange

CarAudio.com Recruit
Thread starter
coopermidrange
Joined
Location
New York
Start date
Participants
Who Replied
Replies
114
Views
8,502
Last reply date
Last reply from
audiobaun
IMG_5860.jpeg

Brendon Jenness

    May 8, 2024
  • 0
  • 0
Screenshot 2023-12-02 161309.png

Doxquzme

    May 8, 2024
  • 0
  • 0

New threads

Top