Factory rear panel install

[Rzza]

dude i just got the fast rings for the first time ever. Can't wait to install it and hear the difference.

How soon are you installing them? I'm looking forward to hear your experience

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

dude i just got the fast rings for the first time ever. Can't wait to install it and hear the difference.

the difference fast rings could make would depend on how good front speaker waves is directed into your vehicle cabin is. If its already well directed inside, you wont see too much of a difference but if its not that good, you'll notice a big difference.

 

[Rzza]

So today I bought a multimeter and set the gain on both amps. I'm still messing with using HU crossover in conjunction with the passive crossovers that came with the components. When I use the HU crossover, if I set the rear to 120 and the front to 60, then the output is higher, like the music has more bass and is louder but as soon as I line them up together at 120 or 60 it sounds worse. I have it bridged so what is happening here? I was thinking that front and rear would have to be aligned because there is no front and rear when bridged but its the opposite. I'm running it now without the HU crossover but it needs the lows cut out.

 

[Rzza]

I'm also a little lost in the EQ. Any suggestions?

 

[LosIsATool 5,000+ posts]

I'm also a little lost in the EQ. Any suggestions?

Go to the tuning tips page.

Never boost more then 3db and try not to even do that. If you can't hear any changes leave it flat.

SQL General Rules – MECA – Mobile Electronics Competition Association

 

[Rzza]

Go to the tuning tips page. Never boost more then 3db and try not to even do that. If you can't hear any changes leave it flat.

SQL General Rules – MECA – Mobile Electronics Competition Association

The bottom of that page you linked me to is exactly what I think I need. Thank you!

 

[Rzza]

Please for the love of god reposition your tweeter that spot is TERRIBLE like really really bad for clarity, imaging, loudness ETC basically everything.... Move them to the A pillar or Sail panel or above the midrange on the doors have them fire directly towards you on axis, if possible angle the midrange to fire at you as well. High pass filter can be anywhere from 63hz to 125hz on your head unit. Never use the amp's crossovers when your head unit can do it better.


since you are using the passive crossovers, you dont need to switch the head unit into active mode and you can use standard mode which lets you run front and rear so yes you can use that speaker. That speaker is almost pure midbass and lower midrange, you wont get anything else out of it.

Hey man, I want you to know that you helped me a lot here. Today I moved the tweets and although I ran into some issues and it took all day, I am far happier now. You were absolutely right, placement is so important. Before I chose a spot I wired a tweeter and placed it in all my options and the best spot I found was right above the mid. It was too harsh when it was too close to my ear. It's aimed decently too. The sound is far better now and I am so glad I did that before adding more speakers. That said, I'm having fun and I wanna know what's the next step I should take toward SQ? I have available speaker holes and my rear 6x9s are still not connected. I wouldn't upgrading my two jlaudio amps. Equalizer seems pretty necessary too. I also need more bass, when I adjusted the amps with the multimeter, I had to turn the mono amp quite low to not clip. I don't love it.

 

[Rzza]

I'm stoned and jamming tunes in my living room and it made me think, why is home audio so simple and car is so intricate? I spent like a grand on some used speakers and bought a Denon receiver and I instantly could replicate a pink Floyd concert in my living room. LOL

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

I'm stoned and jamming tunes in my living room and it made me think, why is home audio so simple and car is so intricate? I spent like a grand on some used speakers and bought a Denon receiver and I instantly could replicate a pink Floyd concert in my living room. LOL

acoustical environment. Basically all the panels in the car are surfaces that sound waves bounce off of and that causes issues and sound/fidelity degredation. Such as where your tweet is placed currently, its close by the heater/AC vent but that whole panel right there is blocking the side of the tweeter which means half of the tweeter's sound is reflected off that surface and its dispersing everywhere. If on axis at your face as too harsh you can just EQ it down or better yet, go active networks. Along with the car being a noisy environment as well in both electrical and road noise. In the doors, the speakers need to direct the sound to the vehicle otherwise it gets trapped in the door panel and the sound waves literally fights itself. You need both deadening, proper baffle to direct the sound outwards past the door panel along with rear speaker wave absorption and also turning the whole door into a proper speaker enclosure Also the speaker drivers are not equal distance apart so your time alignment for the components will never truely be accurate unless you go active which lets you change the crossover point and set each individual midrange, tweeter and midbass's time alignment perfectly dead center.

Sound treatments and deadening is a big part of the install as it helps alleviates some of the issues that degrade sound quality and it makes a huge difference. This whole thread from post 10 and onwards show how an acoustical engineer sound treats his car for the near perfect listening environment. Just to give you a clue on what it really takes to truely achieve sound quality in a car.

http://www.caraudio.com/forums/car-audio-build-logs-cars-trucks-suvs/608637-2014-accord-sport-sq-build-keep_hope_alive-9.html

The next step would be an 8 channel digital sound processor and another 4 channel amp to run active. So it'll be two 4 channel amps. One of them (lower power one) will be bridged to the midbass, the other 4 channel will power the the midrange and tweeter. Each individual driver will be time aligned. Each individual driver can be EQ'd with the 31 band EQ available for maximum fine tuning. Each speaker will have more power. The overall crossover points will blend together much better suited custom tailored to your vehicle's acoustics. so yeah those are the advantages of a DSP.

Now in comparison, home audio is SQ for dummies basically. Just buy decent speakers, a good receiver and proper placement, plug it into a wall socket ViOLA SQ tuned ready to go. Car audio requires MUCH more skill and knowledge to get great results while home audio, you can get decent results without any knowledge or skill. Sure you can do some foam acoustical treatments in a room but that is literally nothing compared to what needs to be done in a car.

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

I wanna know what's the next step I should take toward SQ? I have available speaker holes and my rear 6x9s are still not connected. I wouldn't upgrading my two jlaudio amps. Equalizer seems pretty necessary too. I also need more bass, when I adjusted the amps with the multimeter, I had to turn the mono amp quite low to not clip. I don't love it.
]

Again give up on that rear panel forever if you are chasing SQ, anything to the rear will just hurt SQ and contribute nothing to how good your sound system sounds or even make any noticeable difference. Do you go to a concert with your back facing the band? Nope. Music is recorded in 2.1 stereo. not 4.1 or 5.1 save that for home theater movies with dolby encoding. Literally i can tell you the end result of you putting in a pair of midbass in the rear. End result, you wont hear them over the front, they make at best a .00000001% difference to how your system sounds. Actually they might reduce your overall subwoofer bass since you covered up the hole where bass can travel inside the cabin.

If you used the multi-meter method and used a 0 db test tone or even a -5 db test tone, you arent anywhere near clipping, you just basically gave up a bunch of output for nothing because most music is recorded with -10 levels of bass. So HIGH chance of you incorrectly undergaining the amp. Thats the issue with the mult-meter method, you arent playing sine waves, you play music and music has a large variety of recording levels and you need to know how to adjust your volume according to each song based on you knowing the limits of your system meaning how loud it actually goes before the equipment starts straining. The best indicator is equipment heat. If the amp or sub is ice cold after 10 minute bump session, you need to turn the gain up... If the amp or sub is hot after 10 mins, you need to lower the gain or beef up electricals if the voltage drop is bad as well. If the amp is slightly to moderately warm after 10-30 mins of play, you are at the ideal setting.

a stand alone EQ is garbage nowadays. The way to go is a DSP digital sound processor, Read up on those.

 

[Rzza]

The next step would be an 8 channel digital sound processor and another 4 channel amp to run active. So it'll be two 4 channel amps. One of them (lower power one) will be bridged to the midbass, the other 4 channel will power the the midrange and tweeter. Each individual driver will be time aligned. Each individual driver can be EQ'd with the 31 band EQ available for maximum fine tuning. Each speaker will have more power. The overall crossover points will blend together much better suited custom tailored to your vehicle's acoustics. so yeah those are the advantages of a DSP.

Thanks for the response. If you don't mind I have a couple questions from this excerpt. So, what 31 band eq? Does the processor have a 31 band that I use through the computer or that is another expense? And second, Is it possible to use a 6 channel amp for the 6 components?

 

[Rzza]

I think I got the answer to my first question already. The dsp is giving me an equalizer for each channel, yes? So is 16 bands not enough? This one is very affordable and only offers 16 band. can you recommend a good one that is easy on the credit card? https://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_94156_Cadence-DSP4.8.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIgrSuwOeq1gIVULnACh3-YwehEAQYAiABEgLusfD_BwE

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

Thanks for the response. If you don't mind I have a couple questions from this excerpt. So, what 31 band eq? Does the processor have a 31 band that I use through the computer or that is another expense? And second, Is it possible to use a 6 channel amp for the 6 components?

All the tuning is included in the software when you buy the processor. Yeah you can do a 6 channel.

 

[Rzza]

All the tuning is included in the software when you buy the processor. Yeah you can do a 6 channel.

I'm doing that because I already have 2 amps I would rather replace one than add a third. I'm gonna line the doors and I am thinking about flush mounting the 6.5s in the door. Would that be better or worse? I could line the whole door behind the speaker and cover the original speaker holes. I think this would create the enclosure you were talking about, no?

 

[Rzza]

All the tuning is included in the software when you buy the processor. Yeah you can do a 6 channel.

Can you suggest something better than this? I might pull the trigger. I like the price but its only 16 band eq. https://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_94156_Cadence-DSP4.8.html