eDead UE, my thoughts...

[Mr. C 10+ year member]

Excellent review and tests. Useful information indeed.

 

[DDeitz 10+ year member]

the ue did hold up to normal interior vehicle conditions, it seems like a great product with it being so heavy, but at 3.50 a foot..ill just use more of somthing else.

 

[iDesignBoxes 10+ year member]

Very interesting tests... Not sure if there is any way to actually do this, but is there any chance of a comparison as far as sound deadening goes, rather than material reliability?

 

[Megalomaniac 5,000+ posts]

Very interesting tests... Not sure if there is any way to actually do this, but is there any chance of a comparison as far as sound deadening goes, rather than material reliability?

?

sound deadening just needs to mass load(loosely speaking) and thats exactly what it(any deadener product) does. the reliability makes or breaks the deadener //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

that dynamat or hushmat bell test is nonsense because i could stick my finger on that bell and it would not ring either....

 

[NoobieAudio 10+ year member]

well, i see lots of tests and what not, that judge the "quality" of products or ability to withstand certain things. this one was as good as any. the heat one was important to me because i live in arizona and in my garage it can reach tempatures or 140F. so i can see eDead wouldn't last me long at all. but besides all the rather useful test the most important thing for me is to know if a product does't what i buy it for. and that is to improve sound quality. if anyone has set up testor knows someone who has set up tests to acually mearsure the efficientcy of a product let me know. for all we know, the compound used in the eDead that makes it turn black and slimy in Turpentine could be the what makes it more efficient at absorbing vibrations or blocking out sound waves. it seems to me, with the turpentine test in particular, that the Damp Pro started to look more pourous which would in turn allow more sound to be passed through it. i understand it might be a more durable compund but if that feature will cause me to lose its affectiveness over time i don't think the product it worth it. anyway im just rant quick thoughts that popped into my head, nothing REALLY well thought out. wanted to put my two cents in and hoping to find more in depth testing towards acual funtionality of products. i have heard cars fully done with Damp Pro and some fully done with Dyna Xtreme. i thought the Dyanamat sounded most effective but test show that it doesn't hold up as well as damp pro but still holds up more then needed.

blah blah blah. someone help?

 

[NoobieAudio 10+ year member]

?

sound deadening just needs to mass load(loosely speaking) and thats exactly what it(any deadener product) does. the reliability makes or breaks the deadener //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

that dynamat or hushmat bell test is nonsense because i could stick my finger on that bell and it would not ring either....

adding "mass" is not just the key. otherwise thicker would be better. rubber compounds are so much more complex then i think you realise. im not an expert on sound damping but i do know a lot about tires. i know not that same thing but similar scientific structure in a way. and in tires, the compound almost more then anything is what makes a tire good.

 

[NoobieAudio 10+ year member]

?

sound deadening just needs to mass load(loosely speaking) and thats exactly what it(any deadener product) does. the reliability makes or breaks the deadener //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

that dynamat or hushmat bell test is nonsense because i could stick my finger on that bell and it would not ring either....

adding "mass" is not just the key. otherwise thicker would be better. rubber compounds are so much more complex then i think you realise. im not an expert on sound damping but i do know a lot about tires. i know not that same thing but similar scientific structure in a way. and in tires, the compound almost more then anything is what makes a tire good.

 

[Megalomaniac 5,000+ posts]

i was speaking very loosely. you can only really test reliability than its functionality overall...

 

[NoobieAudio 10+ year member]

i was speaking very loosely. you can only really test reliability than its functionality overall...

i know but that way you made is sound is like " the size of the bouncy ball determines it's bounce" sort of thinking.

also,

the bell test is not garbage. the finger has VERY good viscoelasticity properties and your body acts as a medium for all the vibrations to travel and be ditriputed through. the body is MUCH larger then a small piece of damping.

 

[NoobieAudio 10+ year member]

maybe there is a way to acurately reproduce a frequency with like a vibrating steel rod. and touch that rod to a piece of sheet metal. then meausure what frequency the sheet metal vibrates at. then do the same thing but add different deadeners to the sheet metal and see which one gives off the lows frequency after deanener. won't that help pick a winnar becuase the lowest one would be the one that best ditributes the vibrations?

 

[Rudy 10+ year member]

There are standardized tests for vibration damping - ASTM method E756 is the best known. I don't see anything wrong with the adhesive used on UE - unlike the v1² which has had several reported failures and is very easy to see why it fails in testing, but the Mylar facing is a terrible mistake. Research "constrained layer viscoelastic vibration damping" if you want to know why. It's not just about adding mass, it's also about CLVED and stiffening and Mylar is sh!te for that. You want foil and the thicker the better. Works much better as a barrier too.

These eDeads are flashing tapes. They just turned the machine up to 11 for UE. It's pretty obvious that they wanted to be able to brag about thickness. Fact is, in many places, this stuff is thicker than you need, so you are effectively throwing 1/2 the product away and adding unneeded weight to the vehicle. Butyl will burn. Aluminum foil will do a much better job of snuffing ignition than will Mylar.

 

[babaganoush123 10+ year member]

so whats better and cheaper?

awesome testings good job.

 

[Rudy 10+ year member]

so whats better and cheaper?awesome testings good job.

I'd rather use any product with butyl AND aluminum foil. Cascade, Second Skin, Dynamat Xtreme, Hushmat. RAAMmat for slightly thinner foil than the others, but great value.

 

[Stel 10+ year member]

There are standardized tests for vibration damping - ASTM method E756 is the best known.

This is by far the most important test, yet no one has done it. How well do the products dampen sheet metal vibrations at various frequencies? I would also be interested in seeing how different combinations affect the vibration damping ability. ie. how does 2 layers of eDead v1^2 with mylar compare to 1 layer of raammat with aluminum? How does an extra layer of mylar or aluminum compare to material of the same thickness that has only one layer of mylar or aluminum? Does it improve damping ability, reduce it, or have little effect?

I would also like to see tests on their ability to stop sound from passing through at various frequencies (as would be the case over holes in a door or rear deck). At least this test could easily be done with two custom sound absorbing chambers connected by a hole covered by the product with an accurate SPL meter in one and a sound source in the other. It would be interesting to see the effect of different size holes too.

 

[Rudy 10+ year member]

This is by far the most important test, yet no one has done it. How well do the products dampen sheet metal vibrations at various frequencies? I would also be interested in seeing how different combinations affect the vibration damping ability. ie. how does 2 layers of eDead v1^2 with mylar compare to 1 layer of raammat with aluminum? How does an extra layer of mylar or aluminum compare to material of the same thickness that has only one layer of mylar or aluminum? Does it improve damping ability, reduce it, or have little effect?
I would also like to see tests on their ability to stop sound from passing through at various frequencies (as would be the case over holes in a door or rear deck). At least this test could easily be done with two custom sound absorbing chambers connected by a hole covered by the product with an accurate SPL meter in one and a sound source in the other. It would be interesting to see the effect of different size holes too.

The tests are $600 for each sample, so I'm not going pay to have it done. Some reputable manufacturers have had them done but won't release the results because disreputable manufacturers have published phony results - being honest would put them at a competitive disadvantage.

Even then, the results aren't as useful as they seem. Different frequency/temperature/substrate combinations are going to react very differently. For general purpose use, it would be very difficult to extrapolate best from the test results. They are really useful when comparing a specific product in a specific application. You also need to account for differences in mass and cost. I used to thin these test were critical too, until I started talking to the labs that do them.

Several people, including me and others much more qualified than I, have tried to design a DIY test system like you are describing. It is MUCH more complicated than it appears at first glance. Start with finding a way to completely isolate the front and back of the test material while still being able to generate enough energy to excite the substrate/deadener sandwich and take accurate readings. You really need to use an accelerometer instead of an SPL meter.

Fortunately, it is possible to extrapolate performance from the factors that contribute to reliability and all of the science that has gone into this area. The CLVED research is particularly illustrative.

Then again, before you start looking at 2 layers of eDead vs other products, ask yourself if you really want to buy deadener from a company that sold Peel & Seal as sound deadener, blamed the customers when it fell off, had an owner that outright lied about the asphalt being butyl, switched to butyl when customer outrage forced it to and did no testing of the new material so that one of the grades peels itself off sheet metal? To me that is just as important as any other question. I prefer to give my hard earned money to people who are pushing the state of the art and will stand behind what they sell.