DSP tuning for below dummy level

Original wis

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So is there a place that has a DSP tutorial for someone below the dummy level? Because I literally don't understand any of it. I've tried to read the tuning 101 tutorials here and on other sites but they assume that the reader understands basic terminology, and I don't.



So when I see words like sweeps, on axis, RTA, etc... It sounds like Tony Stark talking to Doc from Back to the Future to me. Actually I'd probably have better luck integrating a Flux Capacitor into an Arc Reactor because I've at least seen a picture of those things.



I guess my point is, where is the tutorial that begins with basics like which speaker to tune first, what you're trying to get out of it, why do it in the first place.



As an example I know that sound deadener makes things rattle less, which makes everything sound better because there's less background noise so you hear more of the music. How it does that I have no idea. I know that butyl is some sort of sticky rubber with aluminum on the back, and when you tap something that has it compared to tapping something that doesn't there's no echo just the first thud so that makes obvious sense.



Is there anything that's that basic that I can look at around here that explains the how and the why of a DSP in that basic of terms?



Lewis King
 
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just call me KeV

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Original wis

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I'm on there as well as car audio junkies. It still starts at level six as far as I'm concerned.

Idk, I tried to read the articles you referenced several times before today. I searched all 3 forums for the most basic info that I could find. Still doesn't make sense to me. I'm low-key having buyer's remorse because I bought an Axxess DSP but I don't really understand what it's for or what the benefit is so it might as well be wasted money.
 

just call me KeV

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As an example I know that sound deadener makes things rattle less, which makes everything sound better because there's less background noise so you hear more of the music. How it does that I have no idea. I know that butyl is some sort of sticky rubber with aluminum on the back, and when you tap something that has it compared to tapping something that doesn't there's no echo just the first thud so that makes obvious sense.

Lewis King
Deadener works by lowing the resonant freq. of whatever it is attached to. So when you tap on a metal panel, then tap on one that has been treated, the resonat freq. is lower. This is from both the added mass and how butyl works by dampening an impulse due to the composition of the material.
Typically there are a few ways to reduce or dampen vibration. We can add mass. not the best way but deadener does this in a small way, but not the primary on
I'm on there as well as car audio junkies. It still starts at level six as far as I'm concerned.

Idk, I tried to read the articles you referenced several times before today. I searched all 3 forums for the most basic info that I could find. Still doesn't make sense to me. I'm low-key having buyer's remorse because I bought an Axxess DSP but I don't really understand what it's for or what the benefit is so it might as well be wasted money.
I just downloaded the app for my phone so I can read through it and help where I can. From what I can see initially you have the ability to adjust multiple components in your system tuning. I'll go through all of them to see if we can help you out.
Give me like ten-ish minutes and half a mixed drink to write out a post for you homie.
 

Original wis

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Deadener works by lowing the resonant freq. of whatever it is attached to. So when you tap on a metal panel, then tap on one that has been treated, the resonat freq. is lower. This is from both the added mass and how butyl works by dampening an impulse due to the composition of the material.
Typically there are a few ways to reduce or dampen vibration. We can add mass. not the best way but deadener does this in a small way, but not the primary on

I just downloaded the app for my phone so I can read through it and help where I can. From what I can see initially you have the ability to adjust multiple components in your system tuning. I'll go through all of them to see if we can help you out.
Give me like ten-ish minutes and half a mixed drink to write out a post for you homie.
I got the deadner thing so I'm okay with that I've already deadened my entire car. I guess this is what I'm getting at:

I listen to a lot of EDM and rap it's so I don't want everything in the front of me at the center. I want to be sitting in the middle of it because sounds move left and right in DJ mixes and beats so I want to be where I'm like, in it. This is like if I were watching a symphony or an orchestra or something and I was sitting in the crowd. I want to sound like I'm at a rave in the middle of a club or something. So how do I do that?

Or like for instance if I'm listening to Korn, I don't want to be in the crowd in front of them, I want to be on stage next to Jonathan. Do you get what I mean?
 
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ThxOne

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I'm on there as well as car audio junkies. It still starts at level six as far as I'm concerned.

Idk, I tried to read the articles you referenced several times before today. I searched all 3 forums for the most basic info that I could find. Still doesn't make sense to me. I'm low-key having buyer's remorse because I bought an Axxess DSP but I don't really understand what it's for or what the benefit is so it might as well be wasted money.
A DSP is an ADVANCED level audio processor.

What it does is give YOU full control over the audio signal. Crossovers, Equalizers, Time Alignment (this makes the sound from different speakers arrive at your ears at set times), individual speaker volumes. If setup correctly, will put YOU in the middle of the music like if you were at home sitting in the middle of your high end stereo speakers or center stage at a concert. It also allows for each speaker to be amplified with its own amplifier channel. This also gives you more control over the speakers. Also know as (Going Full Active). You literally have control over each speaker.
 

just call me KeV

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I got the deadner thing so I'm okay with that I've already deadened my entire car. I guess this is what I'm getting at:

I listen to a lot of EDM and rap it's so I don't want everything in the front of me at the center. I want to be sitting in the middle of it because sounds move left and right in DJ mixes and beats so I want to be where I'm like, in it. This is like if I were watching a symphony or an orchestra or something and I was sitting in the crowd. I want to sound like I'm at a rave in the middle of a club or something. So how do I do that?
One of the ways you can do this is by adjusting the level of each speaker and adjusting the time alignment. Rear speakers help in this way creating a fuller sound. But we need to be weary that we don't cross them to high as it will pull the stage back(~3k). This will change how the sound "stages" for lack of a better word. We'll need to walk you through your tune step by step to achieve what you want.
 

Original wis

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A DSP is an ADVANCED level audio processor.

What it does is give YOU full control over the audio signal. Crossovers, Equalizers, Time Alignment (this makes the sound from different speakers arrive at your ears at set times), individual speaker volumes. If setup correctly, will put YOU in the middle of the music like if you were at home sitting in the middle of your high end stereo speakers or center stage at a concert. It also allows for each speaker to be amplified with its own amplifier channel. This also gives you more control over the speakers. Also know as (Going Full Active). You literally have control over each speaker.
Yeah I understand that on the basic level it gives you complete control over what each speaker does. And I see how if you use time alignment you can change where the sounds intersect each other. I get how using the crossover on every single speaker you can choose what frequencies you want it to play. I see how those things work. But I don't understand what the graphs are for, what the mic is for what pink noise is for, what an RTA is for. Like how can a speaker be out of phase if you connect everything correctly? If it's out of phase that means you messed up on the install so you shouldn't even be messing with the frequencies yet. Right?
 

spokey9

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From what i understand...if you set the mic about where you head position is...you can adjust the frequency and time alignment for each speaker to essentially put the drivers seat at the "center" of the music...

I've been reading what can about dsp...I'm thinking I might delete my hu for one...no quite sure yet though 😂
 

just call me KeV

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I took a couple screen shots from the app and I will attempt to decribe each shot in detail and explain what they mean. This first shot is the first part of the setup. Each speaker is assigned a channel. This channel will be used to adjust that speaker and that one only.
Screenshot_20220818-213441.png


Crossover adjustment is going to take a range of freq. that you can use to adj. where the speaker will play in the frequency spectrum between 20 hz- and 20khz. This is the human baseline for hearing. If it sas HPF (high pass filter) it means that anything lower than that will not play through the driver. If it is LPF (low pass filter) it is the exact opposite. Nothing higher than that freq. will be allowed to play.
If you use a bandpass crossover it will take a small frequency range and it will have a filter on both ends.
The "filters" we use are dictated by slope. We can adjust them in 6, 12, 18, and 24 db per octave So let's take the two octaves of 20 and 50 hz. If our crossover is using a 6db slope the roll off or volume drop playing between the two is very gradual. If it is 24 db the dropoff is much sharper.
Screenshot_20220818-213447.png


Equalization. This can really make a system shine. It mentions that the dsp has the ability to adjust 31 bands which means that we can adjust each octave in the freq. spectrum. 31. Human hearing is centered around 2-3khz. One of the links I showed you has a list of where instruments play to give you a better idea. When we adjust an eq we always want to cut frequencies and never add.

Screenshot_20220818-213452.png


Delay/Time alignment. We use this to set when the sound of the speaker arrives to us. This is useful when you hav one midrange that is closer to you than the other one. We used to solve this problem back in the day by putting midrange and tweeters in the kicks.
Take a ruler and measure the distance between the drivers and passenger footwell. It may be less than 6 inches. Now measure from your drivers side A pillar and the passenger A pillar. See the difference. This is why we use time alignment. With that even with the wild difference in distance we can have the sound arrive at our ears at the same time.
 

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Original wis

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I took a couple screen shots from the app and I will attempt to decribe each shot in detail and explain what they mean. This first shot is the first part of the setup. Each speaker is assigned a channel. This channel will be used to adjust that speaker and that one only.
View attachment 41804

Crossover adjustment is going to take a range of freq. that you can use to adj. where the speaker will play in the frequency spectrum between 20 hz- and 20khz. This is the human baseline for hearing. If it sas HPF (high pass filter) it means that anything lower than that will not play through the driver. If it is LPF (low pass filter) it is the exact opposite. Nothing higher than that freq. will be allowed to play.
If you use a bandpass crossover it will take a small frequency range and it will have a filter on both ends.
The "filters" we use are dictated by slope. We can adjust them in 6, 12, 18, and 24 db per octave So let's take the two octaves of 20 and 50 hz. If our crossover is using a 6db slope the roll off or volume drop playing between the two is very gradual. If it is 24 db the dropoff is much sharper.
View attachment 41805

Equalization. This can really make a system shine. It mentions that the dsp has the ability to adjust 31 bands which means that we can adjust each octave in the freq. spectrum. 31. Human hearing is centered around 2-3khz. One of the links I showed you has a list of where instruments play to give you a better idea. When we adjust an eq we always want to cut frequencies and never add.

View attachment 41806

Delay/Time alignment. We use this to set when the sound of the speaker arrives to us. This is useful when you hav one midrange that is closer to you than the other one. We used to solve this problem back in the day by putting midrange and tweeters in the kicks.
Take a ruler and measure the distance between the drivers and passenger footwell. It may be less than 6 inches. Now measure from your drivers side A pillar and the passenger A pillar. See the difference. This is why we use time alignment. With that even with the wild difference in distance we can have the sound arrive at our ears at the same time.
See that's what I mean. I get all of that.

But why do I need pink noise, microphones, RTA's sweeps, and all of that stuff to do it? Or the graphs?

I basically figured out what the majority of the buttons do so I know how to like calculate you know either the distance and milliseconds or difference in time or whatever mathematically to move the sound in the car where I want it.

I know like for my tweeters anything below 3500 I'm going to automatically turn off. For my six and a half I'm going to turn off anything like below 80 or close to that. The three and a half are going to be in between the six and a half in the Tweeter to like blend everything together right? So I do all of that without any of that other stuff. I just have to figure out where the distortion point is for like a speaker and keep it below that.

So what else am I supposed to do? I feel like when I read all that stuff there's a whole bunch of stuff that I'm missing that I'm supposed to do besides that and that's what I don't understand what the equipment is for or the graphs or any of that stuff.
 
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ThxOne

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... But I don't understand what the graphs are for, what the mic is for what pink noise is for, what an RTA is for. Like how can a speaker be out of phase if you connect everything correctly? If it's out of phase that means you messed up on the install so you shouldn't even be messing with the frequencies yet. Right?
The MIC will measure the sound your speakers are putting out with no EQ's, Bass boost, loudness or time alignment. All sound controls should be flat with NO enhancements and all balance and faders centered. Pink noise is what you will use for the sound that the MIC will measure as it is playing all the frequencies at near the same output.

Once you have recorded this you will have a graph of what your cars speakers sound looks like. You will see dips and peaks in the graph. This will show you what frequencies will need to be adjusted. You are going to adjust them up or down to remove the dips and peaks. Your goal is to make the graph more smooth with only minor dips and peaks. From there you will adjust the EQ's further in the car listening to music. Your ears should be able to pick out tweeters that are too bright or harsh or not bright enough or bass that may need to be boosted or cut and so on. You can set your time alignments as well and see if more EQ is needed or volume adjustments of individual speakers.

Speaker phase can be used to compensate for on/off axis speakers if needed. On axis (speakers pointed at you) Off axis (Speakers not pointed at you. i.e. lower door speakers facing your legs)
 
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just call me KeV

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Yeah I understand that on the basic level it gives you complete control over what each speaker does. And I see how if you use time alignment you can change where the sounds intersect each other. I get how using the crossover on every single speaker you can choose what frequencies you want it to play. I see how those things work. But I don't understand what the graphs are for, what the mic is for what pink noise is for, what an RTA is for. Like how can a speaker be out of phase if you connect everything correctly? If it's out of phase that means you messed up on the install so you shouldn't even be messing with the frequencies yet. Right?
The graphs for a speaker can show it's operating range. This is useful when picking out gear for your vehicle especially if you want to mix and match speakers. You can create overlapping frequency response for tweeters and midranges, midbass and subwoofers.
Phase is as simple as positive to positive negative to negative. Sometimes during tuning we reverse the phase as it can add width or depth to the soundstage or raise it above dash level. This is not always necessary. We use pink noise and an real time analyzer to see where the peaks and nulls in frequency response when the speakers are all playing together. This is a tool we can use to see where our system is lacking or where the output is higher than we would like.
This is from an rta app used while positioning my phones mic between my Focal headphones. Notice the response. If we had a large dip or peak in a certain freq. we would have a good step in adjusting it. We can do this a variety of ways including crossover points, eq, and even the specific speaker we are using.
Screenshot_20220818-222457.png
Screenshot_20220818-223036.png
 

Original wis

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The MIC will measure the sound your speakers are putting out with no EQ's, Bass boost, loudness or time alignment. All sound controls should be flat with NO enhancements and all balance and faders centered. Pink noise is what you will use for the sound that the MIC will measure as it is playing all the frequencies at near the same output.

Once you have recorded this you will have a graph of what your cars speakers sound looks like. You will see dips and peaks in the graph. This will show you what frequencies will need to be adjusted. You are going to adjust them up or down to remove the dips and peaks. Your goal is to make the graph more smooth with only minor dips and peaks. From there you will adjust the EQ's further in the car listening to music. Your ears should be able to pick out tweeters that are too bright or harsh or not bright enough or bass that may need to be boosted or cut and so on. You can set your time alignments as well and see if more EQ is needed or volume adjustments of individual speakers.

Speaker phase can be used to compensate for on/off axis speakers if needed. On axis (speakers pointed at you) Off axis (Speakers not pointed at you. i.e. lower door speakers facing your legs)
So the mic is to set all the speakers completely flat? So you know you're beginning from like an even starting point?
 

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