Helix M six DSP.... was this the wrong choice?

[paulyman]

Recently I entered into the dsp world from old school passive crossovers, old school amps. I choose Helix components because from my research I found that this was quality. However I tuned everything up. Sound great but my over all volume seems to not be as loud as I would like. Just seems that for all the quality wiring and upgraded components I put into my new system the old simple amps and speakers were much more lound and the subs hit harder. What I have had a hard time understanding is the stupid gain "pad" setting on the helix m six dsp.... That slider in my opinion doesnt allow me to match the source perfect and i think leaves volume on the table...

I purchased the helix m six dsp and helix one X mono amp. I run a set of tweeters, mids and mid bass off the m six (all millie hertz) and then use line output channel I on the m six to send out signal to the one X mono amp to run two subs. My question is do I have the initial gains pad setting correct? or is this just a low power junk amp/dsp.... See below

My current format:
I played 1k 0db test tone to find max clipping point of my head unit source. My head unit did not clip at max volume of 40 at 3.6V
I played a 50hz 0db test tone and found that the head unit only would put out a clean signal at volume 33 1.6V
So I set my helix six dsp input gain electronic slider to 3.4V as this was the closest voltage using the 1k 0db test tone at full unclipped volume
- should I of used the 4v gain setting rather than the 3.4v in the dsp input gain field?
-Should I have used the clipping voltage of the 50hz 0DB test tone rather than setting the input gain on the dsp relative to the 1khz 0db test tone?

What i am wondering is based on the way I have it set currently with the gain relative to the 1khz test tone voltage output, would not this input gain setting send a clipped signal to the one X mono amp? I am thinking now that I should of gotten a stand alone dsp and had a separate amp for the tweets, mids, and mid bass. I am feeling that I cant get the power that i should be getting out of this m six dsp amp. Its as if i am forced to set it for 50 hertz tone voltage then the other higher frequencies are not getting higher output. If i set the "pad" gain using a higher test tone then it will clip the input into the m six at lower frequencies.

I am used to using old school equipment. So a bit confused about how to set the input gain correctly on the m six dsp when i have to also route that signal chain into another amp that is not dsp, taking care of lower frequency purpose. In your opinion what tools would you use and how would you setup the signal chain in my setup?
/
Head unit ---> helix m six DSP amp -----> helix one X mono amp (non dsp) using channel I from helix m six
set of tweeters (2) 12" subs at 1ohm
set of mids
sert of mid bass

Click to read more...

 

[CarAudio.com - Hal AI Bots]

Recently I entered into the dsp world from old school passive crossovers, old school amps. I choose Helix components because from my research I found that this was quality. However I tuned everything up. Sound great but my over all volume seems to not be as loud as I would like. Just seems that for all the quality wiring and upgraded components I put into my new system the old simple amps and speakers were much more lound and the subs hit harder. What I have had a hard time understanding is the stupid gain "pad" setting on the helix m six dsp.... That slider in my opinion doesnt allow me to match the source perfect and i think leaves volume on the table...

I purchased the helix m six dsp and helix one X mono amp. I run a set of tweeters, mids and mid bass off the m six (all millie hertz) and then use line output channel I on the m six to send out signal to the one X mono amp to run two subs. My question is do I have the initial gains pad setting correct? or is this just a low power junk amp/dsp.... See below

My current format:
I played 1k 0db test tone to find max clipping point of my head unit source. My head unit did not clip at max volume of 40 at 3.6V
I played a 50hz 0db test tone and found that the head unit only would put out a clean signal at volume 33 1.6V
So I set my helix six dsp input gain electronic slider to 3.4V as this was the closest voltage using the 1k 0db test tone at full unclipped volume
- should I of used the 4v gain setting rather than the 3.4v in the dsp input gain field?
-Should I have used the clipping voltage of the 50hz 0DB test tone rather than setting the input gain on the dsp relative to the 1khz 0db test tone?

What i am wondering is based on the way I have it set currently with the gain relative to the 1khz test tone voltage output, would not this input gain setting send a clipped signal to the one X mono amp? I am thinking now that I should of gotten a stand alone dsp and had a separate amp for the tweets, mids, and mid bass. I am feeling that I cant get the power that i should be getting out of this m six dsp amp. Its as if i am forced to set it for 50 hertz tone voltage then the other higher frequencies are not getting higher output. If i set the "pad" gain using a higher test tone then it will clip the input into the m six at lower frequencies.

I am used to using old school equipment. So a bit confused about how to set the input gain correctly on the m six dsp when i have to also route that signal chain into another amp that is not dsp, taking care of lower frequency purpose. In your opinion what tools would you use and how would you setup the signal chain in my setup?
/
Head unit ---> helix m six DSP amp -----> helix one X mono amp (non dsp) using channel I from helix m six
set of tweeters (2) 12" subs at 1ohm
set of mids
sert of mid bass

Transitioning from traditional passive systems to a DSP-based setup can be quite a learning curve, but it sounds like you have a solid understanding of the components you're working with. Let’s break down your questions and concerns regarding your setup:

1. Gain Setting with Test Tones:
- When setting the gain on the Helix M Six DSP, it’s crucial to use a test tone that reflects the type of music you'll be playing most often. If your head unit produces a clean signal at 1kHz but clips at 50Hz at a lower volume, you may want to prioritize the 50Hz test tone for setting your gains, especially for the subwoofer frequencies. This would ensure you don’t send a clipped signal to the mono amp when playing low frequencies.

2. Choosing Between 3.4V and 4V Gain Settings:
- Given your findings at 1kHz, if the clean output voltage you found at max head unit volume was 3.6V, then setting your input gain at 3.4V (close to the maximum clean output) should be okay for mid and high frequencies. However, you mention that your clean output for the 50Hz tone was at volume 33 with only 1.6V. It could be beneficial to adjust the gain settings to accommodate the lower frequency output (possible use of lower gain on the DSP for sub frequencies).

3. Clipping Concerns:
- Your concern about clipping is valid. If you set the gain relative to the 1kHz test tone and the lower frequencies are approaching clipping at lower volumes, you could potentially harm the speakers or subwoofers if it’s sending a clipped signal. Monitoring the output levels with a multimeter and using a test tone that reflects the bass frequencies when tuning those components might yield better results.

4. Signal Chain Setup:
- Your current setup is quite standard, and it can work well, but consider the following:
- Use a dedicated DSP if you are serious about tuning each frequency range separately. A standalone DSP will give you more flexibility in tuning before sending signals to the amps.
- Ensure proper crossover settings are applied on the M Six DSP, especially for your tweeters, mids, and subs. This will aid in ensuring that the right frequencies are sent to each driver effectively.
- Make sure to calibrate levels and settings looking specifically at how each part of the signal chain interacts instead of relying solely on sinusoidal test tones. Real music can often reveal different clipping and distortion characteristics.

5. Additional Tools and Techniques:
- RTA (Real-Time Analyzer): This will help visually assess frequency response and help set up your DSP effectively.
- Oscilloscope: If you want to identify clipping in real-time while tuning.
- Sound Pressure Level Meter: To measure and compare the loudness of your setup accurately.

In summary, consider adjusting your gain settings based on how your system behaves with the 50Hz test tone and look into adding dedicated DSP tools if you want improved control over your system. Continue to fine-tune based on music genre and personal preference as well!

 

[RobGMN Premium Member]

Can't analyze and give in-depth info at the moment, but one thing about doing EQ properly is that you should be cutting to meet the curve, not boosting. That means you have to increase your output to get back "where you started" as far as overall output.

It can also happen that you get used to what you've got, and dialing things in properly just sounds wrong or weak, esp. bass. A decent 40-50Hz bump can make you think you have kick-@ss bass, then things sound crap when you actually smooth it out for accuracy.

Hal the bot does OK, but the combined brainpower of the members here will help you get where you need to be.

 

[ThxOne Premium Member]

Recently I entered into the dsp world from old school passive crossovers, old school amps. I choose Helix components because from my research I found that this was quality. However I tuned everything up. Sound great but my over all volume seems to not be as loud as I would like. Just seems that for all the quality wiring and upgraded components I put into my new system the old simple amps and speakers were much more lound and the subs hit harder. What I have had a hard time understanding is the stupid gain "pad" setting on the helix m six dsp.... That slider in my opinion doesnt allow me to match the source perfect and i think leaves volume on the table...

I purchased the helix m six dsp and helix one X mono amp. I run a set of tweeters, mids and mid bass off the m six (all millie hertz) and then use line output channel I on the m six to send out signal to the one X mono amp to run two subs. My question is do I have the initial gains pad setting correct? or is this just a low power junk amp/dsp.... See below

My current format:
I played 1k 0db test tone to find max clipping point of my head unit source. My head unit did not clip at max volume of 40 at 3.6V
I played a 50hz 0db test tone and found that the head unit only would put out a clean signal at volume 33 1.6V
So I set my helix six dsp input gain electronic slider to 3.4V as this was the closest voltage using the 1k 0db test tone at full unclipped volume
- should I of used the 4v gain setting rather than the 3.4v in the dsp input gain field?
-Should I have used the clipping voltage of the 50hz 0DB test tone rather than setting the input gain on the dsp relative to the 1khz 0db test tone?

What i am wondering is based on the way I have it set currently with the gain relative to the 1khz test tone voltage output, would not this input gain setting send a clipped signal to the one X mono amp? I am thinking now that I should of gotten a stand alone dsp and had a separate amp for the tweets, mids, and mid bass. I am feeling that I cant get the power that i should be getting out of this m six dsp amp. Its as if i am forced to set it for 50 hertz tone voltage then the other higher frequencies are not getting higher output. If i set the "pad" gain using a higher test tone then it will clip the input into the m six at lower frequencies.

I am used to using old school equipment. So a bit confused about how to set the input gain correctly on the m six dsp when i have to also route that signal chain into another amp that is not dsp, taking care of lower frequency purpose. In your opinion what tools would you use and how would you setup the signal chain in my setup?
/
Head unit ---> helix m six DSP amp -----> helix one X mono amp (non dsp) using channel I from helix m six
set of tweeters (2) 12" subs at 1ohm
set of mids
sert of mid bass

Ahhh you fell into the same thing I did the first time I used my RF 3Sixty.3 DSP. I used 0db test tones. My volume was not what I was after by a long shot. From my research using a 0db tone meant there would be no distortion or clipping and it would be the cleanest signal possible. Well, it also leaves no wiggle room.

Eventually I used 3 different test tones at different db's.
40 or 50hz @-10DB - sub
1000hz @-5db - mids
4000hz @-5 - -2.5db highs (-5db ultimately as it blended better in volume with the tweeters I used)

Doing this made a huge difference in volume. It also helped that my amplifiers put out more power rms than my speakers rms ratings. Not much but enough for headroom. Example, my tweeters handled 75wrms and my amp put out 125wrms. This allows you to EQ down (cut) instead of boosting.

This is the curve I was looking for. A great starting point.

 

[Doxquzme Premium Member]

I concur, house curve to flat, then attenuate to taste, not the other way around.