Dsp help


ikpthegame

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10+ year member
Jan 2, 2008
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So long story short, I'm going back to the factory radio in my ram.  The eq sucks for low end.  Would the Dayton dsp-408 help fix the low end?  Also I just need it for the sub, nothing else.

 

Jeffdachef

Gunz That Turn on Nunz
Feb 5, 2013
17,262
252
South Coast Metro, CA
So long story short, I'm going back to the factory radio in my ram.  The eq sucks for low end.  Would the Dayton dsp-408 help fix the low end?  Also I just need it for the sub, nothing else.
Not a good pairing at all if you plan on using factory head unit to power door speakers.  The Dayton DSP only works well when you take ALL head units out of the equation and only use the dayton dsp, dayton bluetooth dongle to stream all your music on, mids and highs amps and sub amps. Which means nothing connected to the head unit whatsoever, that head unit will just be for display and backup cam, nothing else. 

In your situation just get some kind of lc2i audiocontrol if all you need is a subwoofer channel.  Make sure you tap into a full range signal before it goes into a factory amplifier.

 
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ikpthegame

Member
10+ year member
Jan 2, 2008
137
1
MN
I had the lc2i before and the lower notes suffered from the crap EQ.  I'm looking for something to fix that, what would you suggest?

 

JRsmoothee

caraudio.com negative asshole
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Aug 12, 2008
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in the alley behind your house
Not a good pairing at all if you plan on using factory head unit to power door speakers.  The Dayton DSP only works well when you take ALL head units out of the equation and only use the dayton dsp, dayton bluetooth dongle to stream all your music on, mids and highs amps and sub amps. Which means nothing connected to the head unit whatsoever, that head unit will just be for display and backup cam, nothing else. 

In your situation just get some kind of lc2i audiocontrol if all you need is a subwoofer channel.  Make sure you tap into a full range signal before it goes into a factory amplifier.
"The Dayton DSP only works well when you take ALL head units out of the equation and only use the dayton dsp" 

thats the dumbest shit i've heard lately. my dayton dsp works fine with my HU(i have never used BT streaming feature for music on mine)....i see nothing wrong with  him using the high level inputs, you just need to give it full range signal, it will give you all the processing you desire, prolly overkill for just subs, but for how cheap it is why not

 
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Jeffdachef

Gunz That Turn on Nunz
Feb 5, 2013
17,262
252
South Coast Metro, CA
"The Dayton DSP only works well when you take ALL head units out of the equation and only use the dayton dsp" 

thats the dumbest shit i've heard lately. my dayton dsp works fine with my HU(i have never used BT streaming feature for music on mine)....i see nothing wrong with  him using the high level inputs, you just need to give it full range signal, it will give you all the processing you desire, prolly overkill for just subs, but for how cheap it is why not
you absolutely have no idea what goes on in a stock head unit do you?  There's built in factory equalization to make speakers sound better. No its not your bass and treble adjustments. Its an actual built in factory EQ curve set by manufacturers to make up for deficiencies in cutting costs for the stock speakers used.  Not to mention what if none of his speakers provide full range signal? What if the stock head unit has a built in high pass crossover permanently in place? how are you going to fix that huh? This is why more expensive DSPs have Factory DE-Equalization features or even dedicated units like JL FIX 86 exists. When you have a factory amplifier into the equation shit gets way worse. So learn a little bit about the intricacies about what goes on in a factory system first before you sound dumb bro. 

Yeah your sh*t sounds fine to you, however I doubt you'll take home any trophies for actual SQ sorry to say bud. Overall resolution, detail, tonalitiy is massively better with APTX streaming with a full digital signal vs hi level inputs and low level inputs in all the setups i've done with the dayton dsp. Yes i had to do those just to show the client the difference in audio quality between their options. Not to mention the overall distortion level is much lower, the setup can go a lot louder cleanly as well. So idk why you even talk if you havent even explored all the features of the dsp such as BT streaming.

 
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Jeffdachef

Gunz That Turn on Nunz
Feb 5, 2013
17,262
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South Coast Metro, CA
FYI the dayton DSP does not have signal summing nor de equalization nor bass restoration features. Its a flat out tuning monster but thats it. Not really a proper solution for factory oem integration. Its a good stand alone product when you forgo the factory head unit completely.

 
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JRsmoothee

caraudio.com negative asshole
10+ year member
Aug 12, 2008
1,184
39
in the alley behind your house
you absolutely have no idea what goes on in a stock head unit do you?  There's built in factory equalization to make speakers sound better. No its not your bass and treble adjustments. Its an actual built in factory EQ curve set by manufacturers to make up for deficiencies in cutting costs for the stock speakers used.  Not to mention what if none of his speakers provide full range signal? What if the stock head unit has a built in high pass crossover permanently in place? how are you going to fix that huh? This is why more expensive DSPs have Factory DE-Equalization features or even dedicated units like JL FIX 86 exists. When you have a factory amplifier into the equation shit gets way worse. So learn a little bit about the intricacies about what goes on in a factory system first before you sound dumb bro. 

Yeah your sh*t sounds fine to you, however I doubt you'll take home any trophies for actual SQ sorry to say bud. Overall resolution, detail, tonalitiy is massively better with APTX streaming with a full digital signal vs hi level inputs and low level inputs in all the setups i've done with the dayton dsp. Yes i had to do those just to show the client the difference in audio quality between their options. Not to mention the overall distortion level is much lower, the setup can go a lot louder cleanly as well. So idk why you even talk if you havent even explored all the features of the dsp such as BT streaming.
actually im a dodge/chrysler owner and know all about their factory HU/EQ been there done that....95% sure the rear channels are full signal, so the DSP will work fine for him....i dont remember me or the OP mentioning anywhere about entering any SQ competitions...he needs it for a sub setup, easy to do with dayton....

 

Jeffdachef

Gunz That Turn on Nunz
Feb 5, 2013
17,262
252
South Coast Metro, CA
actually im a dodge/chrysler owner and know all about their factory HU/EQ been there done that....95% sure the rear channels are full signal, so the DSP will work fine for him....i dont remember me or the OP mentioning anywhere about entering any SQ competitions...he needs it for a sub setup, easy to do with dayton....
Funny i'm doing an install on a 2014 dodge dart right now and on the RTA and oscope there's a heavy cut below 50hz on both rear and front. Some will be the similar but depending on the car make, model, trim, premium audio options etc... You really dont know what you'll get unless you measure the signal out with pink noise on proper measuring equipment.

Not to mention my company's chargers have some volume limiter BS as well with the stock head unit no factory amp and the audio output is extremely low resolution DACs less than 16 bit.  Sh*t input signal does not magically get better when going through a DSP.   The only way the dayton's 24 bit dac works is if its receiving a digital signal so it can convert to analogue itself, other wise its just amping up an already garbage signal.

 
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Jcsaudio

Senior VIP Member
Sep 28, 2017
460
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Worcester, MA
If you’re looking for something easy that will undo the factory EQ and undo the factory time alignment than I recommend the Fix 86. It also has a basic 10 band EQ for each channel and if you want to expand later on it can be paired with any DSP including the Dayton 408 or the JL TwK88. I own all of these mentioned DSP’s and they are all very good. I had trouble integrating my subwoofer in my truck with my front stage with just the TwK 88 until I got the Fix 86 and it made a big difference in SQ for everything using the stock radio. 

I just saw a Fix 82 go up for sale for just $150 shipped. Should have grabbed it but this rabbit hole of car audio has gotten me deep $$$$ in dept this year. Just went with all new AudioFrog GB series everything and picked up a RF T1500bd and T600. 🤠

 

MattinMO

Senior VIP Member
Dec 31, 2017
627
100
St.louis, MO
If you’re looking for something easy that will undo the factory EQ and undo the factory time alignment than I recommend the Fix 86. It also has a basic 10 band EQ for each channel and if you want to expand later on it can be paired with any DSP including the Dayton 408 or the JL TwK88. I own all of these mentioned DSP’s and they are all very good. I had trouble integrating my subwoofer in my truck with my front stage with just the TwK 88 until I got the Fix 86 and it made a big difference in SQ for everything using the stock radio. 

I just saw a Fix 82 go up for sale for just $150 shipped. Should have grabbed it but this rabbit hole of car audio has gotten me deep $$$$ in dept this year. Just went with all new AudioFrog GB series everything and picked up a RF T1500bd and T600. 🤠
Soooo...I’m getting ready to install my dsp408 and I was going to do what @Jeffdachef suggested and just stream the music through the bt dongle but I still have a love for cds the sound quality of an actual non compressed file compact disc imo is better then Bluetooth any day of the week. So in order to get signal summing to the dsp408 I think I’m going to either get a used fix 86 or sell this Dayton and get a twk88...

 

Jeffdachef

Gunz That Turn on Nunz
Feb 5, 2013
17,262
252
South Coast Metro, CA
Soooo...I’m getting ready to install my dsp408 and I was going to do what @Jeffdachef suggested and just stream the music through the bt dongle but I still have a love for cds the sound quality of an actual non compressed file compact disc imo is better then Bluetooth any day of the week. So in order to get signal summing to the dsp408 I think I’m going to either get a used fix 86 or sell this Dayton and get a twk88...
Your choice man. But its funny that you never even give the product a chance even when its right there in your hands.  You arent going to get much if any audible difference with a cd vs APTX with lossless streaming services such as tidal.

 

wew lad

wew lad inc
Mar 22, 2015
5,766
68
MA
If you’re looking for something easy that will undo the factory EQ and undo the factory time alignment than I recommend the Fix 86. It also has a basic 10 band EQ for each channel and if you want to expand later on it can be paired with any DSP including the Dayton 408 or the JL TwK88. I own all of these mentioned DSP’s and they are all very good. I had trouble integrating my subwoofer in my truck with my front stage with just the TwK 88 until I got the Fix 86 and it made a big difference in SQ for everything using the stock radio. 

I just saw a Fix 82 go up for sale for just $150 shipped. Should have grabbed it but this rabbit hole of car audio has gotten me deep $$$$ in dept this year. Just went with all new AudioFrog GB series everything and picked up a RF T1500bd and T600. 🤠
You're local to me, just noticed. A friend in fitchburg also frequents here if you ever want to plan a meet up or something

 

wew lad

wew lad inc
Mar 22, 2015
5,766
68
MA
Soooo...I’m getting ready to install my dsp408 and I was going to do what @Jeffdachef suggested and just stream the music through the bt dongle but I still have a love for cds the sound quality of an actual non compressed file compact disc imo is better then Bluetooth any day of the week. So in order to get signal summing to the dsp408 I think I’m going to either get a used fix 86 or sell this Dayton and get a twk88...
You will NEVER notice a difference between CDs and a proper APTX lossless stream

Glad you listened to the sane opinion here, the output signal is only as good as the input signal

 

Jcsaudio

Senior VIP Member
Sep 28, 2017
460
13
Worcester, MA
You're local to me, just noticed. A friend in fitchburg also frequents here if you ever want to plan a meet up or something
Sounds good to me, I’ve been wanting to get the opportunity to have a listen to some vehicles other than my own. Late spring time would be best. Just starting a new build on the CX5. I don’t frequent this forum much anymore but do check in from time to time. 

 

MattinMO

Senior VIP Member
Dec 31, 2017
627
100
St.louis, MO
Your choice man. But its funny that you never even give the product a chance even when its right there in your hands.  You arent going to get much if any audible difference with a cd vs APTX with lossless streaming services such as tidal.
That’s a valid criticism about not giving it a chance, but...I’m new to the dsp world and just want ease as well as the most of of the equipment I purchase no matter what the price is. Had a chat with a rep from Dayton and their statement basically is the dsp408 is every bit as adaptable to oem integration as well as being able to sum signals he referred me to page 8 in the manual. 

The manual is pretty subpar especially if you’re not familiar with a dsp 

http://www.daytonaudio.com/media/resources/230-500-dayton-audio-dsp-408-user-manual(2).pdf

 

Jeffdachef

Gunz That Turn on Nunz
Feb 5, 2013
17,262
252
South Coast Metro, CA
That’s a valid criticism about not giving it a chance, but...I’m new to the dsp world and just want ease as well as the most of of the equipment I purchase no matter what the price is. Had a chat with a rep from Dayton and their statement basically is the dsp408 is every bit as adaptable to oem integration as well as being able to sum signals he referred me to page 8 in the manual. 

The manual is pretty subpar especially if you’re not familiar with a dsp 

http://www.daytonaudio.com/media/resources/230-500-dayton-audio-dsp-408-user-manual(2).pdf
its really not good at signal summing nor fixing the factory head unit's signal and EQ curve at all. Honestly sounds like a mess straight out the box if the factory head unit is bad, a very clear audible difference if you do direct swaps from speaker level inputs vs the aptx dongle. Try it yourself and you'll see.  You'll find out that it doesnt matter if you are playing Store bought CDs on a factory head unit that is already messing up the signal  so bad that it'll sound like 128kbps mp3, no amount of processing or EQ can restore that resolution due to a p*ss poor internal dac. Vs compared to a Lossless APTX stream thats actually going through and being processed and losslessly converted by a higher quality dac from the DSP.   Reasons why SQ competitors still have to swap out their factory head units to something else is soley because of that reason.  Sh*t input signal, no matter how much you try to polish and refine it, it'll have its limitations and will always be your weakest link.

Only a rare few factory head units output a clear unprocessed signal which need special Maestro connectors. 
 

thats why I made the statement that even with lossless store bought CDs through the low level or hi level inputs to the dsp, the quality was way worse than a 320kbps aptx stream to the dongle by FAR.  It sounds even better when you use lossless streaming services like tidal. 

 
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