dimming problem.

[kyleorsini 10+ year member]

i have a 05 pontiac g6, i recently did the big 3 with 0 gauge, and i still have a dimming problem its lessend tho, and i plan on upgrading the battery, i have the stock acdelco battery. i currently have a type r with 500 wrms to it, but plan on getting a bxi1608 amp so id be running about 1500wrms. i would prefer not to get a new alternator, but should i keep the current batt up front and get a audio batter for the back or switch to a bigger battery up front?

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[Buck 5,000+ posts]

Get a battery in the back. How much can you spend?

 

[oni 10+ year member]

If he's dimming at 500 rms after the Big 3, I don't think a batt in the back is the first thing he should do. Upgrading the front to an AGM and checking his ground would be better to do first. If that doesn't work, then the batt in the back. But I had 1000 watts in a Grand Prix without dimming and only 1 batt. 500 shouldn't do that to him in a G6

 

[Buck 5,000+ posts]

If he's dimming at 500 rms after the Big 3, I don't think a batt in the back is the first thing he should do. Upgrading the front to an AGM and checking his ground would be better to do first. If that doesn't work, then the batt in the back. But I had 1000 watts in a Grand Prix without dimming and only 1 batt. 500 shouldn't do that to him in a G6

Assuming everything is done right. But I agree. It doesn't seem like it should dim at 500w.

 

[old_dude 10+ year member]

I'm with Buck on this one!//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif (about the battery in the back)

I'm still in the process of building my current system (although all speakers but the subs are in and running off the deck for now, all to be rewired when the amps go in).

BUT: I was wanting to get a bigger alternator for my 98 Dodge Stratus (before I even got a chance to experience the headlight dimming syndrome!). I asked several local friends, both auto mechanics and car audio buffs, if I would notice that much difference between my stock alternator's 125 amp rating and a Bosch 200 amp alternator I wanted to buy. My question was if an additional 75 would make that much of a difference.

The answer I got from everyone I asked? They ALL said to get a second battery! Even my friend of 30 years who has rebuilt alternators and starters since he was a kid said the same thing! Get a second battery! So I did. But he also said what I needed to do (and something you might consider) is the get a "Continuous Duty Solenoid" and hook it to my new 2nd battery rather than an isolator. He's an expert, so I took his advice. (Besides, he said that the 200 amp Bosch would NOT fit in my engine compartment at all!). You can buy them almost anywhere. But since so many auto parts counter people are complete idiots and want an exact application (and color of your car's paint sometimes, for spark plugs!) my buddy said if they ask what application you need this solenoid for, you just tell them it is for a Warn Winch. (Which told me I would be better off finding one at an RV parts dealer.)

So, that's one way to remedy your problem. If you use the Continuous Duty solenoid, I'm told (by an expert) that there is no need to run a a battery isolator. As long as you (and I, too) make SURE to get a deep-cycle marine (or RV) battery as your stereo's new friend. BTW, I went with a freakin' $189 Optima battery, so that sucker better do the job!

I hope this might have helped you or maybe steered you in the right direction.

 

[loopkiller 10+ year member]

First off, you DO NOT want a solenoid based isolator. You want a diode based unit. Your friend might not know about them. They keep the battery isolated even with the engine running. The solenoid type only disconnect the batteries with the engine off. The proper type of diode isolator should be less than $100.

Secondly, since you have plans to upgrade to the 1500W amp, you might want to go with a solution that will be up to par for that system. If you want to buy something to work with your current setup, chances are you will need to upgrade again when you upgrade your system.

My suggestion (similar to above) is:

1) Big 3 (done)

2) Biggest AGM battery you can afford in back

3) 200A diode based isolator (see picture below for reference)

 

[oni 10+ year member]

First off, you DO NOT want a solenoid based isolator. You want a diode based unit. Your friend might not know about them. They keep the battery isolated even with the engine running. The solenoid type only disconnect the batteries with the engine off. The proper type of diode isolator should be less than $100.
Secondly, since you have plans to upgrade to the 1500W amp, you might want to go with a solution that will be up to par for that system. If you want to buy something to work with your current setup, chances are you will need to upgrade again when you upgrade your system.

My suggestion (similar to above) is:

1) Big 3 (done)

2) Biggest AGM battery you can afford in back

3) 200A diode based isolator (see picture below for reference)

Agreed, but if there's something else wrong causing dimming at 500 watts, he should fix that first. All the other stuff at this point in time is a bandaid and a beer for your leg after you accidentally cut it off with a chainsaw (bad analogy, I know).

BUT, he should also do this in advance of the system upgrades as well.

 

[loopkiller 10+ year member]

Agreed, but if there's something else wrong causing dimming at 500 watts, he should fix that first. All the other stuff at this point in time is a bandaid and a beer for your leg after you accidentally cut it off with a chainsaw (bad analogy, I know).
BUT, he should also do this in advance of the system upgrades as well.

You are somewhat right here. He could fix his current issue with an AGM battery under the hood. That would serve him well, until he upgrades that is. Then he would still need another rear battery. If he had not mentioned the future upgrade, I would have simply suggested the under hood AGM alone.

 

[old_dude 10+ year member]

This solenoid is NOT an isolator, per se. You guys are thinking of the typical motorhome twin-battery isolator systems, and you're absolutely right in that aspect. However, mine is being run in a different manner. It's hard to explain, but I'll post the wiring diagram my buddy is going to draw up for me. A Continuous Duty Solenoid is slightly different in design than that Stinger pictured below. I found this out on the site I compared specs on.

So, although you guys are correct in theory, my setup will be slightly different. Which is the sole reason behind getting this specific type of solenoid rather than one of those you mentioned (from a car audio source). I never realized there were so many countless types of solenoids besides the ones you mention.

Sorry if I sound stupid when it comes to isolators, but I am! I myself don't fully understand my friend's theory, but will be glad to fill you in tomorrow after he gives me the rundown on how it gets hooked up. He did agree, however, that I was indeed only running the 2nd battery when the engine was off, so this might not even end up working out for me (depends on my headlight dimmage-per-bumpage factor!).

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crap.gif.7f4dd41e3e9b23fbd170a1ee6f65cecc.gif

 

[loopkiller 10+ year member]

This solenoid is NOT an isolator, per se. You guys are thinking of the typical motorhome twin-battery isolator systems, and you're absolutely right in that aspect. However, mine is being run in a different manner. It's hard to explain, but I'll post the wiring diagram my buddy is going to draw up for me. A Continuous Duty Solenoid is slightly different in design than that Stinger pictured below. I found this out on the site I compared specs on.
So, although you guys are correct in theory, my setup will be slightly different. Which is the sole reason behind getting this specific type of solenoid rather than one of those you mentioned (from a car audio source). I never realized there were so many countless types of solenoids besides the ones you mention.

Sorry if I sound stupid when it comes to isolators, but I am! I myself don't fully understand my friend's theory, but will be glad to fill you in tomorrow after he gives me the rundown on how it gets hooked up. He did agree, however, that I was indeed only running the 2nd battery when the engine was off, so this might not even end up working out for me (depends on my headlight dimmage-per-bumpage factor!).

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crap.gif.7f4dd41e3e9b23fbd170a1ee6f65cecc.gif

Battery Isolators:

Many people listen to their stereo without the engine running. This often leads to dead batteries and a vehicle that won't start. A battery isolator will let you completely discharge one battery without discharging the starting battery.

Different Types of Isolators:

There are 2 main types of battery isolators. The diode based type and the relay (solenoid) type.

Diode Based Isolator:

This type of isolator is basically two very high current diodes in a heat sink. The diode based isolator has the advantage of long life and trouble free operation but many of the diode based isolators cause a .4 to .6 volt loss which means that the batteries will not charge to as high a voltage as when they are connected directly to the alternator.

Solenoid Based Isolators:

This type of isolator uses large high current relays to control the flow of current. The advantage of the solenoid based isolator is that there is virtually no voltage loss across the contacts. The main disadvantage is that the reliability isn't quite as good as the diode based isolator.

NOTE:

There are 2 types of solenoids. They look virtually identical but are designed for different uses.

Ford Type Solenoid:

If you're familiar with older Ford vehicles, you've no doubt seen the fender mounted solenoid. It's used to make/break the connection from the battery to the starter. This solenoid is designed to pass as much as 400 amps of current but only for a short period of time. The solenoid's magnetic coil has only 3-4 ohms of resistance. If used for continuous duty, the coil will overheat and fail. The low resistance provides higher the contact pressure that's needed to keep the contact resistance to a minimum.

Continuous Duty Solenoids:

For main power switching in car audio, you need a continuous duty solenoid. These solenoids will have approximately 15-30 ohms of resistance across the coil. As you can imagine, this will allow the coil to run much cooler than the starter solenoid mentioned above (although the solenoid will be quite warm after a while).

There is more to read an pictures to view on the original site (LINK)

 

[kyleorsini 10+ year member]

thanks for the input guys, i didnt really wanna spend that much money like maybe 250 the most, as i wanna get my new amp next week or well buy it online, yeah dimming at 500 wrms is kinda gay but the g6's have a crap elec system, like 50 gauge thru the whole car //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/tongue.gif.6130eb82179565f6db8d26d6001dcd24.gif//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif i havent done much reading into a second battery for the back or anything i just need some pointers as for those isolator thingers arnt they like 300$

 

[loopkiller 10+ year member]

thanks for the input guys, i didnt really wanna spend that much money like maybe 250 the most, as i wanna get my new amp next week or well buy it online, yeah dimming at 500 wrms is kinda gay but the g6's have a crap elec system, like 50 gauge thru the whole car //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/tongue.gif.6130eb82179565f6db8d26d6001dcd24.gif//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif i havent done much reading into a second battery for the back or anything i just need some pointers as for those isolator thingers arnt they like 300$

Nope. You can find them on eBay for well under $100. You should look for one that is rated at or higher than your alternator's max output rating.

So, if your alt is rated to make 120A max, then you need at least a 120A isolator.

 

[kyleorsini 10+ year member]

so then this would be it then?

http://cgi.ebay.ca/NEW-STINGER-SGP32-200AMP-CURRENT-RELAY-BATTERY-ISOLATOR_W0QQitemZ120387768659QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCar_Electronics_Parts_Accessories?hash=item120387768659&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72:1215|66:2|65:12|39:1|240:1318

 

[loopkiller 10+ year member]

so then this would be it then?http://cgi.ebay.ca/NEW-STINGER-SGP32-200AMP-CURRENT-RELAY-BATTERY-ISOLATOR_W0QQitemZ120387768659QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCar_Electronics_Parts_Accessories?hash=item120387768659&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72:1215|66:2|65:12|39:1|240:1318

Look up to my post about isolators. You want the diode based unit, not the solenoid based unit. That link you gave was the wrong type.

 

[kyleorsini 10+ year member]

oh alright gotcha i put a link for the seloniod one i need the other one the bar one, i just looked on ebay, the 200A ones are like 150-200$cdn and i found 140A for like 100-130 what would be better the 200 amp or 140 amp id prefer not to get a new alternator as it would be a month or 2 till i can get one.