Cleanest Amplifier

[zane 10+ year member]

Well if what you say is true then why don't you own Sparkomatic and Jensen...You would have to be a moron to own Alpine and other brand names since there is no difference. Whe are you so careless with your money if there is no difference at all??? Prove your point and run your system with a Sparkomatic amp

Since you care to make un-educated assumptions about my own systems and my financial situation, refer to my sig.

I run Lanzar, Profile, JBL, and Phoenix Gold Amps.

My amplification between two cars (2 amps per car) cost me under $800.00

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

Kinda throws a kink into your careless ramble.

Nice try though.

I use what I have, because I can.

I simply don’t have the luxury, nor feel the need to drop hundreds of dollars on one component.

Going with that fact- it's pretty amazing what one can accomplish knowing this, and using common knowledge and experience to build a competition system on a budget.

Knowledge, Patience, and Design, are the key to any quality system.

Product has so little to do with anything.

Some, myself included at times, purchase a more expensive product simply because they like its cosmetics.

Others, myself included at times, purchase a more expensive product at a far lower price than many people get a chance to.

Grasp that concept?

An amp is an amp, a watt is a watt. NEITHER can effect Sound Quality.

Not Possible.

Here's a little bit to clear up the idiocy about THD effecting jack squat.

http://www.eatel.net/~amptech/elecdisc/thd.htm

cookies,

-zane

 

[b0mbrman 10+ year member]

Originally Posted by ssracerx2Well if what you say is true then why don't you own Sparkomatic and Jensen...You would have to be a moron to own Alpine and other brand names since there is no difference. Whe are you so careless with your money if there is no difference at all??? Prove your point and run your system with a Sparkomatic amp

good point.

Three things I look for in an amp in order:

1. Features.Look at my sig. I like all-active setups and not many amps will work for that. Both the 300/4 and the m1686i have crossovers that reach that high.
   
2. Durability. I want my equipment to last forever
   
3. Actual power output. Not many people bench test Jensen amps //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/frown.gif.a3531fa0534503350665a1e957861287.gif.

Oh, and of course size...my cars aren't big enough to hold gigantic amps...

And I too will use any free amp you send me...Heck, I'm buying a new truck and could use some free gear //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[Bavarian3 10+ year member]

Since you care to make un-educated assumptions about my own systems and my financial situation, refer to my sig.
I run Lanzar, Profile, JBL, and Phoenix Gold Amps.

My amplification between two cars (2 amps per car) cost me under $800.00

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

Kinda throws a kink into your careless ramble.

Nice try though.

I use what I have, because I can.

I simply don’t have the luxury, nor feel the need to drop hundreds of dollars on one component.

Going with that fact- it's pretty amazing what one can accomplish knowing this, and using common knowledge and experience to build a competition system on a budget.

Knowledge, Patience, and Design, are the key to any quality system.

Product has so little to do with anything.

Some, myself included at times, purchase a more expensive product simply because they like its cosmetics.

Others, myself included at times, purchase a more expensive product at a far lower price than many people get a chance to.

Grasp that concept?

An amp is an amp, a watt is a watt. NEITHER can effect Sound Quality.

Not Possible.

Here's a little bit to clear up the idiocy about THD effecting jack squat.

http://www.eatel.net/~amptech/elecdisc/thd.htm

cookies,

-zane

I use JBL and profile. they costed me a total of like 350. 1400 watts total and they perform quite nicely. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/peace.gif.2db28b618ed8d1964ebbe2f5021d2c39.gif//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[DrewRafter]

Well, since the thread was hijacked, I will once again post to try to get it back to the original point. Which would you rather have, MTX's 801D or Polk's C500.1?

 

[ssracerx2 10+ year member]

If what you guys are saying was true, then all amps would have the same distortion ratings and signal to noise ratios, but they don't because amps do not do what they are ment to do perfectly. A perfect amp would just amplify the signal to a louder level without leaving any imprint from that amp, but thery don't because they can't. All amps leave some sort of imprint, whether it be a tonal imprint or a distortion factor or the way the highs sound or the way the bass sounds. They all imprint something......and the less of an imprint that is left by the amp the better the amp is. I know what point you guys are trying to make about distortion levels being inaudible but you cant tell me that a 50watt rms Sinfoni amp and a 50watt rms Jensen amp reproduce and amplifiy music the same way and that the 2 can not be distinquished between, thats just silly....

 

[ssracerx2 10+ year member]

Well, since the thread was hijacked, I will once again post to try to get it back to the original point. Which would you rather have, MTX's 801D or Polk's C500.1?

I personally would prefer the Polk between the 2, but I really like Arc....

 

[DrewRafter]

I personally would prefer the Polk between the 2, but I really like Arc....

Thanks for the input!!!

 

[CELLERBR 10+ year member]

I would go MTX between the 2, I have never liked Polk. No reason really just personal preference.

 

[n2audio 5,000+ posts]

If what you guys are saying was true, then all amps would have the same distortion ratings and signal to noise ratios, but they don't because amps do not do what they are ment to do perfectly.

You're right, but the difference in THD% and S/N ratios is too small to be perceivalbe by our ears. We're talking about fractions of a percent - trust me - you can't hear it.

A perfect amp would just amplify the signal to a louder level without leaving any imprint from that amp, but thery don't because they can't. All amps leave some sort of imprint, whether it be a tonal imprint or a distortion factor or the way the highs sound or the way the bass sounds.

Conventional thinking would support that, and marketing departments work night and day to keep that theory alive. But when you finally sort through all the myths you'll find that it's just not the case.

Obviously crossover set-points and slopes will modify the sound but I believe it's clearly implied that we're dealing with the amplification - not the processing.

I know what point you guys are trying to make about distortion levels being inaudible but you cant tell me that a 50watt rms Sinfoni amp and a 50watt rms Jensen amp reproduce and amplifiy music the same way and that the 2 can not be distinquished between, thats just silly....

You're missing the point. If you had a Jensen RATED for 50x2 and a Sinfoni RATED for 50x2 of course you'd never get the same sound out of the Jensen.

BUT! It's not due to "tonal" blah blah or Sinfoni's "warmth and clarity" from their "higher quality components". It's due to the fact that the Sinfoni would actually be putting out 80x2 while the Jensen would be 30x2.

It doesn't become a debate until you take a Jensen 100x2 and a Sinfoni 50x2 that will both do 75 or 80 watts per channel. In that case you CAN get the 2 amps to "sound" exactly alike - it's been done hundreds of times.

 

[b0mbrman 10+ year member]

Originally Posted by ssracerx2I know what point you guys are trying to make about distortion levels being inaudible but you cant tell me that a 50watt rms Sinfoni amp and a 50watt rms Jensen amp reproduce and amplifiy music the same way and that the 2 can not be distinquished between, thats just silly....

Well if you say it's silly, am I right to assume that you believe you can distinguish between the two?
I wish someone out there would offer an amp challenge or something that let people take a double-blind test between an expensive amp and an inexpensive amp...

 

[n2audio 5,000+ posts]

I wish someone out there would offer an amp challenge or something that let people take a double-blind test between an expensive amp and an inexpensive amp...)

uh oh

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[ssracerx2 10+ year member]

You're right, but the difference in THD% and S/N ratios is too small to be perceivalbe by our ears. We're talking about fractions of a percent - trust me - you can't hear it.

Conventional thinking would support that, and marketing departments work night and day to keep that theory alive. But when you finally sort through all the myths you'll find that it's just not the case.

Obviously crossover set-points and slopes will modify the sound but I believe it's clearly implied that we're dealing with the amplification - not the processing.

You're missing the point. If you had a Jensen RATED for 50x2 and a Sinfoni RATED for 50x2 of course you'd never get the same sound out of the Jensen.

BUT! It's not due to "tonal" blah blah or Sinfoni's "warmth and clarity" from their "higher quality components". It's due to the fact that the Sinfoni would actually be putting out 80x2 while the Jensen would be 30x2.

It doesn't become a debate until you take a Jensen 100x2 and a Sinfoni 50x2 that will both do 75 or 80 watts per channel. In that case you CAN get the 2 amps to "sound" exactly alike - it's been done hundreds of times.

OK How about this lets agree to disagree since I do believe that amps have their own tonal characteristics and blahhh blamm hulaboluuu. I think that the only mature way to handle this is that we just race and the winner is right. Doesn't that sound waaay cool... take care and by the way either way if you are right or not {which I stoutly disagree with} you should go join a debate club or some kind of lawyering or bring peace to the middle east because you REALLY can put up an argument, I am genually impressed......peace

 

[b0mbrman 10+ year member]

Yup...I really wish there was a test...

I bet someone would even give you 99 to 1 odds //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

 

[zane 10+ year member]

If what you guys are saying was true, then all amps would have the same distortion ratings and signal to noise ratios, but they don't because amps do not do what they are ment to do perfectly.

No they would not. If all ratings were uniform, there would be 1 amp and only 1 amp.

There are different ways of amplifying a signal- hence different amplifier classes.

A perfect amp would just amplify the signal to a louder level without leaving any imprint from that amp, but thery don't because they can't. All amps leave some sort of imprint, whether it be a tonal imprint or a distortion factor or the way the highs sound or the way the bass sounds. They all imprint something......and the less of an imprint that is left by the amp the better the amp is.

THD would be the only imprint- which is now clearly a moot point as it is not audible.

S/N - Signal is still there. Any introduced noise that by some slim chance is audible, is just that - noise, which does not effect SQ, it just makes noise.

Regardless, an audible noise would mean that something within the amplifier itself wasn't functioning properly- thus a defective amplifier.

The highs and the bass, and everything else in between will not change between amp a and amp b.

Noise does not equate to SQ.

THD does not equate to SQ.

To spell it out:

"The goal of a good amplifier is to cause as little distortion as possible. (THD below 1% - in-audible) The final signal driving the speakers should mimic the original input signal as closely as possible, even though it has been boosted several times. "

http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/amplifier.htm

http://www.eatel.net/~amptech/elecdisc/amplfier.htm

amplifier

n : electronic equipment that increases strength of signals passing through it

amplifier

\Am"pli*fi`er\, n. One who or that which amplifies.

am•pli•fi•er

n.

One that amplifies, enlarges, or extends.

Electronics. A device, especially one using transistors or electron tubes, that produces amplification of an electrical signal.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=amplifier

amplifier An electronic device used to increase an electrical signal. The signal may be voltage, current or both (power). Preamplifier is the name applied to the first amplifier in the audio chain, accepting inputs from microphones, or other transducers, and low output sources (CD players, tape recorders, turntables, etc.). The preamplifier increases the input signals from mic-level, for instance, to line-level. Power amplifier is the name applied to the last amplifier in the audio chain, used to increase the line-level signals to whatever is necessary to drive the loudspeakers to the loudness required. See amplifier classes.

http://www.rane.com/par-a.html

Now, where exactly in technical and common definition do you percieve to conclude that an amplifier will effect Sound Quality?

I know what point you guys are trying to make about distortion levels being inaudible but you cant tell me that a 50watt rms Sinfoni amp and a 50watt rms Jensen amp reproduce and amplifiy music the same way and that the 2 can not be distinquished between, thats just silly....

http://www.rane.com/par-a.html

Refer to the highly detailed articles on various amplifier classes.

Sinfoni look pretty, however, a watt is a watt.

Watt's have no SQ thus they can not effect it.

Believing that an amplifier has even a remote ability to effect SQ, naw, that's just silly.....

take it easy,

-zane

 

[zane 10+ year member]

You're missing the point. If you had a Jensen RATED for 50x2 and a Sinfoni RATED for 50x2 of course you'd never get the same sound out of the Jensen.

BUT! It's not due to "tonal" blah blah or Sinfoni's "warmth and clarity" from their "higher quality components". It's due to the fact that the Sinfoni would actually be putting out 80x2 while the Jensen would be 30x2.

Thus a faulty human error in which the ears actually believe they can hear a difference by means of only increased power.

SQ has not changed. The signal has increased creating the false perception.

Combine this with non-standard power specifications used by nearly every audio manufacturer, of course some will think the SQ has improved by switching amplifiers, when in reality, the signal strength (wattage) has varied.

take it easy,

-zane