Breaking in new sub-woofer?

[hispls 5,000+ posts]

It's stated on some manufacturers' websites that the woofers require a break in time.

It's an easy cop-out to not honor a warranty on a product that has manufacturing defects.

 

[pro-rabbit 5,000+ posts]

When a sub is new, the suspension is stiffer than nominal, so cone travel is less. Common sense, right? When cone travel is less, ripping the suspension is less likely due to less stress on the materials. Common sense again, right? So since two simple common sense thoughts make it obvious that you dont need to run your subs at low level when new to keep from damaging them, it baffles me why this topic is debated so regularly.

Some companies put it on their sites as they fully believe in break in. Not because the sub will perform better over time, but because of triple joint failures from immediate use at or above RMS.

It's an easy cop-out to not honor a warranty on a product that has manufacturing defects.

This hits the nail on the head for many companies. As with some companies issues like triple joint failure is then said to be "user error" by their standards regardless of how/why it failed. Even if you had the sub for weeks/months you will get the same answer. Or over excursion and a small list of other issues.

All though all reasons are legit in some ways, they are indeed a great way to say.."nope pay for the recone and shipping".

Now if you are getting a super stiff spider pack and expect to play way way down low, then you are just getting the wrong soft parts for the most part and failures will happen.

 

[phrostbyte0311 10+ year member]

I think this vid explains the break in aspect pretty well :

http://youtu.be/QvIUENK81no

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

Some companies put it on their sites as they fully believe in break in. Not because the sub will perform better over time, but because of triple joint failures from immediate use at or above RMS.

Why would the triple joint fail from immediate heavy-use?

 

[pro-rabbit 5,000+ posts]

Why would the triple joint fail from immediate heavy-use?

Long story lol...basically poor quality spider though.

 

[Falcons 5,000+ posts]

Long story lol...basically poor quality spider though.

which should be covered by warrenty anyways

 

[pro-rabbit 5,000+ posts]

which should be covered by warrenty anyways

Should be, but it typically is not. Hence the "break in period" and the clause in a warranty that would make the user liable.

I'm not saying agree with this in anyway.

 

[Chriszle 10+ year member]

"We recommend to allow at least several weeks of playing time to break in DD Woofers, full break in may take many months. DO NOT play subwoofers at max amplifier power in the first couple of days, give the suspensions a chance to loosen up. As the suspension breaks in, the subs will play lower and louder.

After you give the woofers a chance to break in (you'll know when this happens because the woofers will be playing lower and louder) you can start to look at port changes to alter the sound to your personal taste and your vehicles acoustic loading conditions."

This is copy and pasted from the DD website under the 9500 series information. I think DD engineers know a little bit about their subs considering they hold more world records than any other company. As far as the comment about spiders not tearing because the cone isn't traveling as much makes sense logically, however some of the torn spiders I've seen on a few subs (not to name any companies) would lead me to believe otherwise.

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

Long story lol...basically poor quality spider though.

Im still not following how a 'break-in' period of initial low-output use would avoid failure of an inferior spider.

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

"We recommend to allow at least several weeks of playing time to break in DD Woofers, full break in may take many months. DO NOT play subwoofers at max amplifier power in the first couple of days, give the suspensions a chance to loosen up. As the suspension breaks in, the subs will play lower and louder.
After you give the woofers a chance to break in (you'll know when this happens because the woofers will be playing lower and louder) you can start to look at port changes to alter the sound to your personal taste and your vehicles acoustic loading conditions."

This is copy and pasted from the DD website under the 9500 series information. I think DD engineers know a little bit about their subs considering they hold more world records than any other company. As far as the comment about spiders not tearing because the cone isn't traveling as much makes sense logically, however some of the torn spiders I've seen on a few subs (not to name any companies) would lead me to believe otherwise.

Read what DD says there again. They are recommending a break-in period because as the suspension compliance changes, factors like fs will change, thus altering the performance/tuning of the system. This is especially true when a relatively stiff suspension is employed, as DD tends to like to use. They do not say the spiders will fail if you dont break them in.

Ive seen plenty of torn spiders on new subs too. This does not mean a 'break-in' period would have avoided those failures.

 

[pro-rabbit 5,000+ posts]

Im still not following how a 'break-in' period of initial low-output use would avoid failure of an inferior spider.

The break in will allow the resign to used on the spider to break down enough to allow travel instead of causing stress from now wanting to flex. It is a design flaw of some companies do to the nature of the material and resign of the spider(s). The lack of travel causes stress which is put on the glue joints(the triple joint and the former). However, after "break in" the spider allows more travel and less stress on those joints.

I'm not saying that every case is poor quality or anything of that nature and many triple joint failures are because of using the sub out side of its designed limits. I'm just stating that the "break in" idea allows for loop wholes in the warranty itself and is used to say user error and charge for repairs.

"We recommend to allow at least several weeks of playing time to break in DD Woofers, full break in may take many months. DO NOT play subwoofers at max amplifier power in the first couple of days, give the suspensions a chance to loosen up. As the suspension breaks in, the subs will play lower and louder.
After you give the woofers a chance to break in (you'll know when this happens because the woofers will be playing lower and louder) you can start to look at port changes to alter the sound to your personal taste and your vehicles acoustic loading conditions."

This is copy and pasted from the DD website under the 9500 series information. I think DD engineers know a little bit about their subs considering they hold more world records than any other company. As far as the comment about spiders not tearing because the cone isn't traveling as much makes sense logically, however some of the torn spiders I've seen on a few subs (not to name any companies) would lead me to believe otherwise.

DD sticks to the "over built" idea and then allow the "break in" to get the driver to optimum working condition. The video posted here(in this thread) explains their idea of it fairly well.

I won't go into any more detail behind DD then that though as they like to be shrouded with mystery. lol

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

The break in will allow the resign to used on the spider to break down enough to allow travel instead of causing stress from now wanting to flex. It is a design flaw of some companies do to the nature of the material and resign of the spider(s). The lack of travel causes stress which is put on the glue joints(the triple joint and the former). However, after "break in" the spider allows more travel and less stress on those joints.
I'm not saying that every case is poor quality or anything of that nature and many triple joint failures are because of using the sub out side of its designed limits. I'm just stating that the "break in" idea allows for loop wholes in the warranty itself and is used to say user error and charge for repairs.

I understand what you are saying about added stress to the joint due to less suspension travel. But the problem with that idea is, once the suspension loosens up and allows higher suspension travel, that stress is still present (and largely the same) because the suspension is moving further, still applying the relatively same amount of stress on the glue joints. It would be equivalent to suggesting stiff suspension speakers with less cone excursion are more likely to break than speakers with looser suspension that have higher excursion potential.

Say you have 1000 watts on tap. When the sub is new, cone travel is (slightly) less. When the sub is older and suspension compliance loosens up, cone travel is (slightly) higher. When the suspension is stiffer, you are suggesting this adds more stress to the t-joint because the spider is trying to resist motion more. But, once the suspension loosens up, cone travel goes up, and even though the suspension is not as stiff as it use to be, stress on the t-joint (and spider landing joint) will be approximately the same, because even though the suspension is looser, its not 'stretching' further. Remember, that 1000 watts transfers a certain amount of energy to the speaker's suspension, regardless of suspension compliance.

Look at it another way. Say suspension compliance is 0. The cone will not move at all. Now we send that 1000 watts through the coil. NO suspension travel, none. Have we increased stress on the t-joint by having no suspension travel? Have we lowered the stress on it? Or is it approximately the same? 1000 watts creates a certain amount of 'work', so the answer is the stress will be similar.

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

Oh, but I 100% agree that many companies have a hidden agenda when publishing their expectation of a break-in period. Ive never seen any statistics on it, but Id be willing to bet the most likely time for a speaker failure is when it is new. Not because suspension compliance is lower, but because that is when problems from improperly set up systems (too big of an amp, too large of an enclosure, wrong gain settings, etc) will most likely manifest themselves in the form of failed suspension parts/materials/joints. So it only makes sense for a manufacturer to have a get out of jail free card to protect themselves, in the form of a built-in way to void warranties on newly sold products without the hassle of having to investigate each failure to determine is exact reason.

 

[Falcons 5,000+ posts]

Oh, but I 100% agree that many companies have a hidden agenda when publishing their expectation of a break-in period. Ive never seen any statistics on it, but Id be willing to bet the most likely time for a speaker failure is when it is new. Not because suspension compliance is lower, but because that is when problems from improperly set up systems (too big of an amp, too large of an enclosure, wrong gain settings, etc) will most likely manifest themselves in the form of failed suspension parts/materials/joints. So it only makes sense for a manufacturer to have a get out of jail free card to protect themselves, in the form of a built-in way to void warranties on newly sold products without the hassle of having to investigate each failure to determine is exact reason.

i'd say listen to the mods. there is a reason they are mods. they know their stuff and they wont lie to you

 

[sacsking916 5,000+ posts]

i love when holic unleashes his vast knowledge. best debates usually have this guy in them.