Alpine Type Rs Vs. Sundowns

[Boominburban 10+ year member]

I'm just wondering where you're getting the 1,480 watts RMS from? Seems oddly specific. Clamp number?
Also, after rise you're getting half of that anyways. Just saying, you may think it's more under rated than it is.

Of course it's a specific number. It's exactly what it is making after rise to 2.17 ohms ...

They are factory modified Mmats HC amps, they do close to 2k @1 ohm .. It's closer to 1200 perfectly clean, 1480 ish with just the slight bit of the wave clipped. ....

 

[adulbrich 5,000+ posts]

That is a good point. I'm not entirely familiar with Sundowns and don't know their series. I know certain series are far more expensive and can handle stupid amounts of power. But as far as quality sound, IDK.
I might do a Sundown build in the future, with my emphasis is SQ, and see where that goes. I do have a pretty much bare '12 Kia Soul I can play with. I'm sure the lady wouldn't mind if I bumped up the sounds with no expense to her. But she does really like her 4 Kenwoods. I'm sure she would be way more thrilled with 2 Sundowns. I don't think I could fit 12s and the proper enclosure without taking up the backseat. Hmmm..... IDK. What would be some good door speakers to go with this. I see Sundown makes door speaker, those any good?

I went with Alpines because I researched for months and it came to JL or Alpine. JL was consistently better than Alpines, but alpines were coming in a close second, and the price was astronomically different. So I went with the much cheaper and slightly lower quality Alpines. Now these were just a bunch of online "ratings" and Sundown, DD, and a lot of these brands you mention didn't seem to exist there. I had bought a crappy prefab box and joined here trying to figure out why it sounded so bad. I was Pushing my sub at 1000 watt, 2 ohms, and it just wasn't kicking. I learned here that I needed a box.

I disagree with the notation that you can't buy a box on Ebay. I bought my box on Ebay, much cheaper than building one myself, or at least roughly the same price. I called the place before buying it to ask some questions. Guy said he uses 'em in his car, never had any problems, and he can't build a custom box better, mostly because they are custom built boxes. Also said if I do blow it apart he wants it back to see and will replace it. This of course could be sales tactic, but I'm satisfied. Of course, I haven't custom built a box to really side by side test, but It had the perfect match spec from what the program I used told me, but it was also about the same as what the Alpine UM says, a lil bigger than the Alpine spec. I did say he could build a box to whatever spec I wanted, but it would cost about $30 more because they would have to do "custom cuts." Said they set the cutter up and cut about 100 boxes at the same specs at a time. But they hand glue, screw, and seal the boxes. Here is the Box I bought.

I would have to build my own box for a Sundown however. The box specs I see for the Sundown don't match anything I can find online.

DD is not an online brand persay. Actually the opposite. Digital Designs only sells to "brick-and-mortar" shops.

Prefab ported boxes are not good. For sealed boxes, I don't think it matters as much. They'd just be thinner and less braced than if you built it yourself. For prefab ported boxes, most don't have enough port area, are too small, and/or are tuned really high. I have yet to see a good prefab box that I couldn't build cheaper.

Welp. Your wrong. I am an American Engineer in the Automotive industry. We DO NOT design products to fail. And you buddy with the Optima probably has some sort of wiring issue, power issue, or bought it used. Optima has warranties and uphold them, here they are. We deal with Optima's all the time. And supply our customers with them and Odyssey Batteries. They hold up for years in all sorts of applications, applications that are much more demanding than anybodies audio system, accept this person we did (and I'm sure a few more very high powered systems).

We also produce HO alternators that last for years. Most of the time they are out of warranty when problems arise, Our warranties aren't huge because people abuse these, 3 year, 30000 miles. The abused ones that their output is way higher than intended for the Alt go out within that time frame, the properly used ones don't come back after 5-6 years, 100000ish miles, and we just fix whats wrong, charge parts and labor.

I completely disagree with your notations. If you read the user manual, and use the product as intended, it will last much longer that they say it will. People generally don't use products correctly. If its flawed, warranties will take care of it.

Optima batteries are now made in Mexico iirc, and do not last as long as the older ones.

Can I haz those alternators for my car //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/confused.gif.e820e0216602db4765798ac39d28caa9.gif

Of course it's a specific number. It's exactly what it is making after rise to 2.17 ohms ... They are factory modified Mmats HC amps, they do close to 2k @1 ohm .. It's closer to 1200 perfectly clean, 1480 ish with just the slight bit of the wave clipped. ....

So that's what you clamped? Interesting. Music is still dynamic though, so they're obviously not seeing that all the time. Still a good clamp rising that high

Although, I don't really see the point in saying how much power you're actually putting to something. I always say "before rise", because with different frequencies you will actually get a different output from your amp because the impedance is different. Just food for thought.

 

[tommymilan311]

Can I haz those alternators for my car //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/confused.gif.e820e0216602db4765798ac39d28caa9.gif

Sure. Call us at 563-323-7994, its American Power Systems. They are HPIs. IDK if we will have an HPI to fit your vehicle, but they are in the 280-360 amp range depending on your RPM. If we don't have one to fit your vehicle, we can build you one. Our built ones range in the 180-260 amp but they wont be the HPIs. If your heart was set on HPIs, you would have 2 options. We could custom build one to fit your vehicle, but you don't wanna do that. It is over a grand for a set of custom housings that aren't mass produced, and we aren't going to eat that cost. Or, you could have a local shop build you a custom bracket. The custom bracket will be much cheaper. You'd look at 3000+ plus for a custom HPI, or maybe -800 for a standard HPI and custom bracket.

But if you just went with a custom alt to fit your vehicle. I think they are in the 300-400 range. IDK that for sure, but I'm not sales, audio guys generally hang up on us when they get pricing, so we don't sell many to audio. But believe me, these are way higher quality than the $100 ones you find on ebay. They will give you more reliable power at low RPM and last much longer, and we will give you accurate power ratings, not over inflated ones.

 

[tommymilan311]

DD is not an online brand persay. Actually the opposite. Digital Designs only sells to "brick-and-mortar" shops.

Shop here in the QC sell DDs and Alpines, Custom Whips. They didn't even try to sway me toward DD. The DD were about twice the price of his Alpines so perhaps that is why. He had super good pricing, 150 for brand new Type R, Amazon has em at 139.99ish, and I got a steal after blowing mine getting the pair for 200. (sent the original one back for a full refund. Don't worry, I didn't buy 3 and only get 2)

 

[Boominburban 10+ year member]

DD is not an online brand persay. Actually the opposite. Digital Designs only sells to "brick-and-mortar" shops.
Prefab ported boxes are not good. For sealed boxes, I don't think it matters as much. They'd just be thinner and less braced than if you built it yourself. For prefab ported boxes, most don't have enough port area, are too small, and/or are tuned really high. I have yet to see a good prefab box that I couldn't build cheaper.

Optima batteries are now made in Mexico iirc, and do not last as long as the older ones.

Can I haz those alternators for my car //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/confused.gif.e820e0216602db4765798ac39d28caa9.gif

So that's what you clamped? Interesting. Music is still dynamic though, so they're obviously not seeing that all the time. Still a good clamp rising that high

Although, I don't really see the point in saying how much power you're actually putting to something. I always say "before rise", because with different frequencies you will actually get a different output from your amp because the impedance is different. Just food for thought.

It wasn't to music per say ... I play my stuff for about 15-20 on music, then I usually pop in a bass mekanik CD and use a tone or boomcheck track to get the numbers from... I think I got this clamp from boomcheck 3 or 4 , which I am thinking the rta shows as like 40 and 45 hz alternating tones,iirc,...for 30 seconds ..... And I'm pretty sure most of us here understand that music is dynamic and ohm load changes, blah blah blah ...

And there are reasons why some people want to know how much power we are pushing to the subs ...seen the new termlab magnum sensors??? With direct amp clamp inputs.....

 

[adulbrich 5,000+ posts]

Sure. Call us at 563-323-7994, its American Power Systems. They are HPIs. IDK if we will have an HPI to fit your vehicle, but they are in the 280-360 amp range depending on your RPM. If we don't have one to fit your vehicle, we can build you one. Our built ones range in the 180-260 amp but they wont be the HPIs. If your heart was set on HPIs, you would have 2 options. We could custom build one to fit your vehicle, but you don't wanna do that. It is over a grand for a set of custom housings that aren't mass produced, and we aren't going to eat that cost. Or, you could have a local shop build you a custom bracket. The custom bracket will be much cheaper. You'd look at 3000+ plus for a custom HPI, or maybe -800 for a standard HPI and custom bracket.
But if you just went with a custom alt to fit your vehicle. I think they are in the 300-400 range. IDK that for sure, but I'm not sales, audio guys generally hang up on us when they get pricing, so we don't sell many to audio. But believe me, these are way higher quality than the $100 ones you find on ebay. They will give you more reliable power at low RPM and last much longer, and we will give you accurate power ratings, not over inflated ones.

In that case, I think I'll just get a Team GP if I do need another alt. Thanks though, haha

It wasn't to music per say ... I play my stuff for about 15-20 on music, then I usually pop in a bass mekanik CD and use a tone or boomcheck track to get the numbers from... I think I got this clamp from boomcheck 3 or 4 , which I am thinking the rta shows as like 40 and 45 hz alternating tones,iirc,...for 30 seconds .....

Ok, I gotcha. I was just curious

 

[Boomin_tahoe 5,000+ posts]

Welp. Your wrong. I am an American Engineer in the Automotive industry. We DO NOT design products to fail. And you buddy with the Optima probably has some sort of wiring issue, power issue, or bought it used. Optima has warranties and uphold them, here they are. We deal with Optima's all the time. And supply our customers with them and Odyssey Batteries. They hold up for years in all sorts of applications, applications that are much more demanding than anybodies audio system, accept this person we did (and I'm sure a few more very high powered systems).

We also produce HO alternators that last for years. Most of the time they are out of warranty when problems arise, Our warranties aren't huge because people abuse these, 3 year, 30000 miles. The abused ones that their output is way higher than intended for the Alt go out within that time frame, the properly used ones don't come back after 5-6 years, 100000ish miles, and we just fix whats wrong, charge parts and labor.

I completely disagree with your notations. If you read the user manual, and use the product as intended, it will last much longer that they say it will. People generally don't use products correctly. If its flawed, warranties will take care of it.

Lol my reply was for everyday items we use. Not one specific like you mentioned.

Oh BTW...Optima batteries made today ****. Everybody knows this.

 

[tommymilan311]

In that case, I think I'll just get a Team GP if I do need another alt. Thanks though, haha

Looked them up and they are about on par with our pricing. We aren't big into the Audio market, so we don't try to compete with guys like this. We are more contract oriented. But in terms of Alts like this, they likely do the same thing we do, but they paint theirs and make them look a bit more "snazzy".

They look like they have quality products, pricing seems so as well. I'd trust 'em.

 

[tommymilan311]

what are the thoughts on type X Alpines?

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

I disagree with the notation that you can't buy a box on Ebay. I bought my box on Ebay, much cheaper than building one myself, or at least roughly the same price. I called the place before buying it to ask some questions. Guy said he uses 'em in his car, never had any problems, and he can't build a custom box better, mostly because they are custom built boxes. Also said if I do blow it apart he wants it back to see and will replace it. This of course could be sales tactic, but I'm satisfied. Of course, I haven't custom built a box to really side by side test, but It had the perfect match spec from what the program I used told me, but it was also about the same as what the Alpine UM says, a lil bigger than the Alpine spec. I did say he could build a box to whatever spec I wanted, but it would cost about $30 more because they would have to do "custom cuts." Said they set the cutter up and cut about 100 boxes at the same specs at a time. But they hand glue, screw, and seal the boxes. Here is the Box I bought.

I would have to build my own box for a Sundown however. The box specs I see for the Sundown don't match anything I can find online.

You have obviously never heard the alpines in a proper box, Bass will be even cleaner, louder and lower. Everything on ebay under 100 dollars is basically junk. You put a real woofer in there and they will blow apart in months or less. Guys will BS their way into everything Custom my @ss, does he even understand what custom is? They guy is fking BSing his way into a sale and he succeeded. A box for two 12s cost less than 45 total with all glue screws, caulk and a sheet of 4x8 feet mdf. WAY cheaper than any EBAY junk you buy. Once you go custom, you will see that prefabs are JUNK. Night and day difference. Unless you really like the boomy bass with no linearity of sound and the being able to play from 25hz to 70hz with good roll offs. Because prefabs focus on 40hz to 80hz boomy midbass range, thats what they are basically tuned and geared for.

 

[adulbrich 5,000+ posts]

what are the thoughts on type X Alpines?

Not as common as R's because of the price. Apparently they have inside and outside coil windings on the former, which i think is cool.

For the money, I'm sure you can get better though.

 

[tommymilan311]

Not as common as R's because of the price. Apparently they have inside and outside coil windings on the former, which i think is cool.
For the money, I'm sure you can get better though.

Probably. Spec wise they seem about the same as the Type Rs. But yeah, 3 times the price. I'm guessing they are something like the Rs but made with better, or more expensive, material. As far as inside out coil winding, I don't really know what that means. I can honestly say I didn't even consider them when doing my build. Just far too expensive, even on the "low."

 

[hispls 5,000+ posts]

Of course it's a specific number. It's exactly what it is making after rise to 2.17 ohms ... They are factory modified Mmats HC amps, they do close to 2k @1 ohm .. It's closer to 1200 perfectly clean, 1480 ish with just the slight bit of the wave clipped. ....

Wow, a subwoofer that's 2.17 ohm at every frequency is fascinating, tell us more.

Shop here in the QC sell DDs and Alpines, Custom Whips. They didn't even try to sway me toward DD. The DD were about twice the price of his Alpines so perhaps that is why. He had super good pricing, 150 for brand new Type R, Amazon has em at 139.99ish, and I got a steal after blowing mine getting the pair for 200. (sent the original one back for a full refund. Don't worry, I didn't buy 3 and only get 2)

DD does almost everything in-house and use top quality materials and parts. They also actually do R&D and they have results to justify their prices. One example of you get what you pay for with them.

what are the thoughts on type X Alpines?

Do they still make them? They used to be excellent. Great sounding woofers that could realistically take 1000W continuous power. Older type X components were even better IIRC OEM'd by Scanspeak, SEAS or one of the other high end European manufacturers

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

Probably. Spec wise they seem about the same as the Type Rs. But yeah, 3 times the price. I'm guessing they are something like the Rs but made with better, or more expensive, material. As far as inside out coil winding, I don't really know what that means. I can honestly say I didn't even consider them when doing my build. Just far too expensive, even on the "low."

they arent as loud(not by far), mainly sound quality oriented, really amazing sounding woofers.

 

[tommymilan311]

Do they still make them? They used to be excellent. Great sounding woofers that could realistically take 1000W continuous power. Older type X components were even better IIRC OEM'd by Scanspeak, SEAS or one of the other high end European manufacturers

Yes sir they do. Looks like only 10s though. Alpine Electronics of America, Inc.