Alpine Type Rs Vs. Sundowns

[adulbrich 5,000+ posts]

[quote name='Jeffdachef']both given perfect installs, it'll go down to woofer quality and build. There will be one point where one sub will pull ahead.[/QUOTE]

I'd just like to point out that nobody has mentioned a specific line of Sundown subwoofer. Everyone has just said "Sundown" or "Sundowns".

I think R's are better than Sundown's E series. SA series may edge the R's out. X is where Sundown pulls away. At Z4 things start to get messy. Nightshades bust a nut, and the Team series doesn't even have to show up.

I don't have experience with the SD series, but I bet they rival the R in sound quality, because that was one of their focuses.
@av83; has done lots of installs with the SD series and may be able to chime in.

 

[av83 10+ year member]

I've only been impressed by type r's once. An all leather caddy with two newest gen r's were pretty impressive on a 1500. I've built a box for a newer camaro with two older ones and it was ok on 1k. Very low and even. Box was 3.5 cf/34 hz.

I've been shocked a a pair of e series on 1k a couple times. And an e 15 in a 4th I built was awesome.

SD series get used a lot by me just because of challenging box situations in trucks lol. I would take sd's and sa's over any r's. Shoot, I'd give e's a hard look for the $ over r's if I felt they could handle whatever power they'll get.

 

[adulbrich 5,000+ posts]

I've only been impressed by type r's once. An all leather caddy with two newest gen r's were pretty impressive on a 1500. I've built a box for a newer camaro with two older ones and it was ok on 1k. Very low and even. Box was 3.5 cf/34 hz.

I've been shocked a a pair of e series on 1k a couple times. And an e 15 in a 4th I built was awesome.

SD series get used a lot by me just because of challenging box situations in trucks lol. I would take sd's and sa's over any r's. Shoot, I'd give e's a hard look for the $ over r's if I felt they could handle whatever power they'll get.

Thanks!

I was happy with my R's and I'm not saying they're bad, but there's other stuff out there like Sundown.

 

[hispls 5,000+ posts]

Lmao sundown are very musical.

Says the guy who thinks subs should roll off at 40hz on the high side.

No 10s? I really dig the 10 sound. Not into the over whelming low bass. Also not into over powering my doors either. I like a balance of highs and lows. I also don't like my lows to sound lower than intended. I write music. Hip-hop beats, trap beats, EDM beats, Metal, Death Metal, Rock. I like a system that sounds good with all of that, and keep the bass at the same sound as when I have headphones on (although I expect it to be louder in the car). I don't like to test a track in my car and get lower bass than what I was going for, or heard over the headphones. My 10s seem to give me nice clean bass over the 12s in the other car, or the 15s in the other, but my Optima is the only car I spent some money on. I have 4 Kenwoods in the soul and 3 15s in the torrent.

If you think the size of the woofer makes a difference in the way it sounds you've either been using poorly designed woofers or improperly designed boxes.... or both.

I have heard this. But from my ear, I can tell that 15s have more low end bass than my 10s, and my 10s have way more range than the 15s. But, in defense of the 15s, my 10s are much higher quality speakers. The 15s are hifonics brutus in a ported box powered by a Rockford Fosgate Punch. To me, they sound like poop. Nowhere near the clarity I look for.

By this logic, the Pinto was a terrible car so all hatchbacks are terrible.

I mean, I generally understand that, but I thought it did, IDK how to explain what I thought. So why do you buy a 10 over a 15 or a 12 over an 8? And I'm not trying to be a smart ***, I'm generally curious, I haven't been doing speaker installs long, but got hooked the second I started and want to know everything there is to know.

You plan based on space and the number of coils you want/need. All things being equal, space not an issue larger is nearly always better.

paper cones dont have the greatest sound reproduction for SQ and there cones are paper.

Where did you come up with this little tidbit? The reason that probably 98% of speakers use paper/pulp cones is because they are a very good material for the job.

Wow guys should be jumping all over these. They are priced to move to get there name out . Once they get reconized they will up the prices

They are priced like every other "slap a new brand name on the same Chinese off the shelf "brand". Just hope that when the company goes belly up they've used parts common enough that you can repair yours when they break. In this hobby a lot of guys get burned going for the bargain priced "new" name.

That all said, I personally have only heard one Sundown sub install that actually sounded musical, though that may or may not say anything about the potential of the woofers. Then again, Type R components sound very nice, the subs are good for what they are but nothing special.

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

They are priced like every other "slap a new brand name on the same Chinese off the shelf "brand". Just hope that when the company goes belly up they've used parts common enough that you can repair yours when they break. In this hobby a lot of guys get burned going for the bargain priced "new" name.

.

Sundown, digital designs, tantric and every other company started out that way. Prices will raise when products get popular. Their motors and baskets are most likely Chinese(Where everyone else gets their motors), their coils are wound in the US though all assembled in California. They dont do the pre-order game like most other companies do either. After following their FB page, Frank, the owner really loves the hobby, and makes sure every one of his customers is happy, so far no issues with any of their products so far from all the members that run them. He also has many product lines coming up soon, even has plans for a neo sub. The company is very determined to stay and be a known name compared to a lot of the fly by night alibaba companies from what i've seen, i've been tracking a lot of them and none come close.

 

[Boominburban]

Hmm, idk many "fly by night" chinese subs that take dbl rated power, on a 2.5" coil .... (1400rms) .....

every time i have emailed the guy, I get a reply within the hour ....

yea, I can't wait for that 16 slug NEO sub to come out .......

my 750-15's have taken hours of abuse on 1480wrms each, which is over dbl rated power ....they haven't got warm to the touch yet ....

I will be running my 1800 SPL - 15's on 3000 rms each, and I will let you all know how that goes ....

I have not come across one person that has anything bad to say about them yet either ..... whether under powered or running over dbl rated, they just seem to work great ... helluva good "chinese" sub I guess ...... I wouldn't recommend a sub to someone that I didn't believe in, or wouldn't use myself ...

 

[Boomin_tahoe 5,000+ posts]

I just find it funny hispls always has something neg to say about someone, something, or where the item/product was made. Surprise. Next time you buy yourself some Nike's look at where it's made. Or a T-Shirt....or hell a candy bar for that matter.

Just because a lot of American things are made in other countries doesn't necessarily mean they're always gonna be bad. Yes their work conditions are horrible and child labor laws etc...but we got no control over that. A lot of USA goods are made overseas because it's costs cheaper to make...everyone knows that.

 

[hispls 5,000+ posts]

Sundown, digital designs, tantric and every other company started out that way. Prices will raise when products get popular. Their motors and baskets are most likely Chinese(Where everyone else gets their motors), their coils are wound in the US though all assembled in California. They dont do the pre-order game like most other companies do either. After following their FB page, Frank, the owner really loves the hobby, and makes sure every one of his customers is happy, so far no issues with any of their products so far from all the members that run them. He also has many product lines coming up soon, even has plans for a neo sub. The company is very determined to stay and be a known name compared to a lot of the fly by night alibaba companies from what i've seen, i've been tracking a lot of them and none come close.

Time will tell.

Hmm, idk many "fly by night" chinese subs that take dbl rated power, on a 2.5" coil .... (1400rms) .....every time i have emailed the guy, I get a reply within the hour ....

yea, I can't wait for that 16 slug NEO sub to come out .......

my 750-15's have taken hours of abuse on 1480wrms each, which is over dbl rated power ....they haven't got warm to the touch yet ....

I will be running my 1800 SPL - 15's on 3000 rms each, and I will let you all know how that goes ....

I have not come across one person that has anything bad to say about them yet either ..... whether under powered or running over dbl rated, they just seem to work great ... helluva good "chinese" sub I guess ...... I wouldn't recommend a sub to someone that I didn't believe in, or wouldn't use myself ...

Just because you're getting nowhere near rated power out of your amp doesn't make a 2.5" coil hold more than 1000W worth of heat. Glad they're working out for you.

I just find it funny hispls always has something neg to say about someone, something, or where the item/product was made. Surprise. Next time you buy yourself some Nike's look at where it's made. Or a T-Shirt....or hell a candy bar for that matter.
Just because a lot of American things are made in other countries doesn't necessarily mean they're always gonna be bad. Yes their work conditions are horrible and child labor laws etc...but we got no control over that. A lot of USA goods are made overseas because it's costs cheaper to make...everyone knows that.

I buy Chinese shoes and they're uncomfortable and fall apart in a few months. My American made work boots are comfortable and last for years.

Who is the engineer behind these? What's the design philosophy? The fact is if even people who innovate have gone under (TC Sounds, RE, and Adire for example), another bargain brand of off the shelf parts really doesn't impress me until the product is proven and the company is proven. The market is incredibly saturated and the barrier of entry to become a real and permanent player is very high.

There simply is a lot more of these type of companies that do not exist anymore than those that do. If you're aware what you're getting and the risk, than go for it. A lot of these have been decent, but don't ignore history. I was saying the same thing about CT when everyone was drooling over them and how's that working out for people who's amps are catching fire.

 

[Boominburban]

Yea, I guess it is a **** good thing I know exactly what we m getting out of my amps, thank you.. .and straight up **** you for insinuating I don't ... You arrogant prick . .

 

[Boomin_tahoe 5,000+ posts]

Time will tell.


Just because you're getting nowhere near rated power out of your amp doesn't make a 2.5" coil hold more than 1000W worth of heat. Glad they're working out for you.

I buy Chinese shoes and they're uncomfortable and fall apart in a few months. My American made work boots are comfortable and last for years.

Who is the engineer behind these? What's the design philosophy? The fact is if even people who innovate have gone under (TC Sounds, RE, and Adire for example), another bargain brand of off the shelf parts really doesn't impress me until the product is proven and the company is proven. The market is incredibly saturated and the barrier of entry to become a real and permanent player is very high.

There simply is a lot more of these type of companies that do not exist anymore than those that do. If you're aware what you're getting and the risk, than go for it. A lot of these have been decent, but don't ignore history. I was saying the same thing about CT when everyone was drooling over them and how's that working out for people who's amps are catching fire.

Your right. High paying jobs are becoming a thing of the past. Why? Ask Obama....no wait, ask the corporations. Shipping OUR jobs overseas because it's cheaper. No more 100K jobs here (for example)

I've been saying this for years. Whatever we buy doesn't last as long as it should anymore. Why? Because of how it's either engineered or made. I worked with a co worker and he had talked to a true engineer that purposely made products that way. Dunno what was made but still....because the companies want us to keep buying. Just look at Optima batteries. I knew of a person that had a Redtop that lasted 8 years. Your lucky if you bought one and lasted 1 year.

 

[hispls 5,000+ posts]

Your right. High paying jobs are becoming a thing of the past. Why? Ask Obama....no wait, ask the corporations. Shipping OUR jobs overseas because it's cheaper. No more 100K jobs here (for example)
I've been saying this for years. Whatever we buy doesn't last as long as it should anymore. Why? Because of how it's either engineered or made. I worked with a co worker and he had talked to a true engineer that purposely made products that way. Dunno what was made but still....because the companies want us to keep buying. Just look at Optima batteries. I knew of a person that had a Redtop that lasted 8 years. Your lucky if you bought one and lasted 1 year.

There's a few sides of the outsourcing manufacturing story. First of all, most of the work is mindless and can be done by a robot or a third world child. Paying skilled-labor rates for that is just plain silly. The sad truth is that a lot of our population is simply becoming unemployable and the trend will not improve. Even as the standard of living increases for Chinese (along with their pay grade) advances in automation mean that you will only need 1 guy (to oversee robots) to do the work of 30 Chinese kids. The days of 30$ an hour plus 20$ worth of benefits to put a bolt in a car door are long gone and never coming back.

Mind you, some protectionist tariffs wouldn't hurt and could be useful in promoting innovation here. Lesser restrictions and government mandates on US employers would help as well.

Of course there's plenty of 100K a year jobs to be had. Most skilled tradesman can earn this, a good/driven salesman can earn this, and if you live in the right area you can easily make that just washing windows or with a hot-dog cart.

A lot of the cheapness of Chinese goods comes from cheaping out in materials. Things that you can't see (quality of steel, glue, magnet grade) can easily be skimped and you won't ever know it. Otherwise, they give you what you ask for. Most "companies" aren't asking for a product that'll last 20 years, but something that will work good enough and come in at the right price point. When your only criteria for product design is price those "savings" are coming out of somewhere. Some things are pretty solid that are made in China but the company has to be up the arse of the manufacturer keeping up standards and you'll pay for the quality.

 

[Boomin_tahoe 5,000+ posts]

Think were gettin' off topic here...

 

[adulbrich 5,000+ posts]

Hmm, idk many "fly by night" chinese subs that take dbl rated power, on a 2.5" coil .... (1400rms) .....every time i have emailed the guy, I get a reply within the hour ....

yea, I can't wait for that 16 slug NEO sub to come out .......

my 750-15's have taken hours of abuse on 1480wrms each, which is over dbl rated power ....they haven't got warm to the touch yet ....

I will be running my 1800 SPL - 15's on 3000 rms each, and I will let you all know how that goes ....

I have not come across one person that has anything bad to say about them yet either ..... whether under powered or running over dbl rated, they just seem to work great ... helluva good "chinese" sub I guess ...... I wouldn't recommend a sub to someone that I didn't believe in, or wouldn't use myself ...

I'm just wondering where you're getting the 1,480 watts RMS from? Seems oddly specific. Clamp number?

Also, after rise you're getting half of that anyways. Just saying, you may think it's more under rated than it is.

 

[tommymilan311]

[quote name='adulbrich']I'd just like to point out that nobody has mentioned a specific line of Sundown subwoofer. Everyone has just said "Sundown" or "Sundowns".

I think R's are better than Sundown's E series. SA series may edge the R's out. X is where Sundown pulls away. At Z4 things start to get messy. Nightshades bust a nut, and the Team series doesn't even have to show up.

I don't have experience with the SD series, but I bet they rival the R in sound quality, because that was one of their focuses.
@av83; has done lots of installs with the SD series and may be able to chime in.[/QUOTE]

That is a good point. I'm not entirely familiar with Sundowns and don't know their series. I know certain series are far more expensive and can handle stupid amounts of power. But as far as quality sound, IDK.

I might do a Sundown build in the future, with my emphasis is SQ, and see where that goes. I do have a pretty much bare '12 Kia Soul I can play with. I'm sure the lady wouldn't mind if I bumped up the sounds with no expense to her. But she does really like her 4 Kenwoods. I'm sure she would be way more thrilled with 2 Sundowns. I don't think I could fit 12s and the proper enclosure without taking up the backseat. Hmmm..... IDK. What would be some good door speakers to go with this. I see Sundown makes door speaker, those any good?

I went with Alpines because I researched for months and it came to JL or Alpine. JL was consistently better than Alpines, but alpines were coming in a close second, and the price was astronomically different. So I went with the much cheaper and slightly lower quality Alpines. Now these were just a bunch of online "ratings" and Sundown, DD, and a lot of these brands you mention didn't seem to exist there. I had bought a crappy prefab box and joined here trying to figure out why it sounded so bad. I was Pushing my sub at 1000 watt, 2 ohms, and it just wasn't kicking. I learned here that I needed a box.

I disagree with the notation that you can't buy a box on Ebay. I bought my box on Ebay, much cheaper than building one myself, or at least roughly the same price. I called the place before buying it to ask some questions. Guy said he uses 'em in his car, never had any problems, and he can't build a custom box better, mostly because they are custom built boxes. Also said if I do blow it apart he wants it back to see and will replace it. This of course could be sales tactic, but I'm satisfied. Of course, I haven't custom built a box to really side by side test, but It had the perfect match spec from what the program I used told me, but it was also about the same as what the Alpine UM says, a lil bigger than the Alpine spec. I did say he could build a box to whatever spec I wanted, but it would cost about $30 more because they would have to do "custom cuts." Said they set the cutter up and cut about 100 boxes at the same specs at a time. But they hand glue, screw, and seal the boxes. Here is the Box I bought.

I would have to build my own box for a Sundown however. The box specs I see for the Sundown don't match anything I can find online.

 

[tommymilan311]

Your right. High paying jobs are becoming a thing of the past. Why? Ask Obama....no wait, ask the corporations. Shipping OUR jobs overseas because it's cheaper. No more 100K jobs here (for example)
I've been saying this for years. Whatever we buy doesn't last as long as it should anymore. Why? Because of how it's either engineered or made. I worked with a co worker and he had talked to a true engineer that purposely made products that way. Dunno what was made but still....because the companies want us to keep buying. Just look at Optima batteries. I knew of a person that had a Redtop that lasted 8 years. Your lucky if you bought one and lasted 1 year.

Welp. Your wrong. I am an American Engineer in the Automotive industry. We DO NOT design products to fail. And you buddy with the Optima probably has some sort of wiring issue, power issue, or bought it used. Optima has warranties and uphold them, here they are. We deal with Optima's all the time. And supply our customers with them and Odyssey Batteries. They hold up for years in all sorts of applications, applications that are much more demanding than anybodies audio system, accept this person we did (and I'm sure a few more very high powered systems).

We also produce HO alternators that last for years. Most of the time they are out of warranty when problems arise, Our warranties aren't huge because people abuse these, 3 year, 30000 miles. The abused ones that their output is way higher than intended for the Alt go out within that time frame, the properly used ones don't come back after 5-6 years, 100000ish miles, and we just fix whats wrong, charge parts and labor.

I completely disagree with your notations. If you read the user manual, and use the product as intended, it will last much longer that they say it will. People generally don't use products correctly. If its flawed, warranties will take care of it.