Acoustic Elegance AV12-X D2!

[ninjawhiteboy12 10+ year member]

do you think you have broken it in yet? did you notice a change?

 

[Koon 10+ year member]

I feel like this AV drama is never going to end. and every single thread that has anything to due with an AV continues on for pages and pages with a bunch of mumbo jumbo I can't understand. I'd really just like to know if the sub is good or not, lol.

 

[microhaxo 10+ year member]

The sub sounds great, it was really hot and my car was in the sun all day and the sub still worked great.

 

[ninjawhiteboy12 10+ year member]

why dont you send it some more power and see what it can really do?

 

[microhaxo 10+ year member]

Why? it's exactly how i want it. I'm sending it plenty of power, more than most people would anyway. I set it up to play at RMS very carefully, i have no intentions to surpass or even attempt to see what the sub is capable of past 1000w. I dont understand people. The sub is rated for 1000w RMS.. The sub is rated to run at that nominal power for a reason. If you want to run more power than instructed then look for a sub that has a higher nominal power rating.

The whole reason why this whole drama started is because of people trying to do things that they shouldn't do.

would you try to run your car that has a max of 6k rpm at 8k rpm?

Are people forgetting that this is an SQ sub? It just happens to get loud. Its not an SPL sub, i dont want a fart machine, i want clarity.

 

[kendogg 10+ year member]

nominal power rating.
The whole reason why this whole drama started is because of people trying to do things that they shouldn't do.

would you try to run your car that has a max of 6k rpm at 8k rpm?

Are people forgetting that this is an SQ sub? It just happens to get loud. Its not an SPL sub, i dont want a fart machine, i want clarity.

I also ran 1000 watts to it. I also wanted clarity. And rpm depends on the engine. Stock, probably not, but again, depends on the engine. Few and far between are engines designed to run 2k over the limiter without having harmonics issues.

 

[microhaxo 10+ year member]

Well im sorry you had problems kendogg, my sub appears to be just fine. I bet yours had a defect in it or something.

the rpm thing was an analogy but w/e.

This sub hits PLENTY hard at 1000w, i have ZERO desire to turn it up at all.

 

[ninjawhiteboy12 10+ year member]

oh my bad i thought you were running it at 800 wrms, i wouldnt run it past 1000 wrms either, it looks like it has worked very well for you

 

[microhaxo 10+ year member]

Music is dynamic. For instance the song Young Jeezy - Put ON with kanye west. There is 30 seconds in that song where the bass is at a -3db level, if i where to play that song i would be pulling over 1200w RMS. There is another song by young jeezy White girl and that only draws 754w RMS on the hardest bass hits. And if i would play Bass I love you, well i would most likely break the sub, i believe that track is a 0db track or very close to that if not.

 

[WS2186 10+ year member]

Music is dynamic. For instance the song Young Jeezy - Put ON with kanye west. There is 30 seconds in that song where the bass is at a -3db level, if i where to play that song i would be pulling over 1200w RMS. There is another song by young jeezy White girl and that only draws 754w RMS on the hardest bass hits. And if i would play Bass I love you, well i would most likely break the sub, i believe that track is a 0db track or very close to that if not.

Thanks for the intelligent review microhaxo. Very much appreciated. I am going to have my AV10s installed soon, with a highpass filter in place and in a proper alignment and I anticipate that I will have stellar results as well. I will be getting TL'd right after install as well so I can have some quantifiable results to post as well.

 

[microhaxo 10+ year member]

Sweet, cant wait to see how they perform!

 

[John_E_Janowitz 10+ year member]

Just a quick note on papermaker's woofer that came in about 5min ago. I'll have pictures posted up shortly once i can get them off the camera. The cone is ridiculously bent up. The surround is torn off the cone at one point. The spider is not "worn out", it is actually torn halfway around on one side of the coil from being driven much too far.

The only way for all of the above to happen is simply abuse. The driver has 23mm Xmax and about 30mm travel before the suspension can't physically go any farther. It is not meant to move farther than this. This is more than enough to get high levels of clean output for any SQ type application this woofer was designed for.

If you plan to try to repeatedly drive the woofer past the physical limits, it can and will break. A subsonic filter is necessary in a vented box to prevent over excursion. That is what they are for. Also I feel the need to stress this again, there are reasons the woofer is rated at 1000W and not 1600W and not specifically intended for SPL application.

John

 

[bose301s 5,000+ posts]

What a surprise, Nick from Fi comes into another manufacturer's thread, acts like a dick, gets his ass handed to him and leaves, seems to be a common theme for him.

 

[NDMstang65 10+ year member]

What a surprise, Nick from Fi comes into another manufacturer's thread, acts like a dick, gets his ass handed to him and leaves, seems to be a common theme for him.

I had nothing to do with John until he was cutting on some stuff a few weeks back that I read either here or another forum...had something to do with "American made products" is all I remember.

He didn't hand my ass to me in any sense of the term...he never answered my question either. I wanted to know if your average idiot could hear any of that stuff he was talking about when group delay and real world application in the car is nothing short of totally ignored.

The bridges that collapsed in the 1950's and 1960's in California looked great on paper until they built them...then the winds showed what happened when certain things were ignored in the REAL WORLD application...and they collapsed. It looked great in the lab..the models worked beautifully...and when you put it where it was supposed to be..it didn't turn out so real.

I can't help i'm a realist..if you don't like it, tough. I don't sugar coat anything, I call it exactly how it is.

(psssssssssst...which is why I said some time back Car Audio in and of itself has more drama in it then a High School prom...everybody gets sensitive and butt hurt over every thing because a realist says everything is theory that is drawn in conclusion outside of the environment in which the speaker is actually made for which anybody who has done any sort of data sampling knows that its **** at best)

When you gonna start consulting for Boeing there cutie? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[John_E_Janowitz 10+ year member]

for those interested, here are some pics of the woofer papermaker sent back. If someone wants to believe it was build error that caused this, that is your choice. There is however nothing on earth I can do to keep someone from bending the spun aluminum cone, tearing the 100% nomex spider, and ripping the surround off, actually peeling the santoprene in half over most of the detached area.

This is under no circumstances something that happens under normal usage.

John

 

[microhaxo 10+ year member]

wow, that took a beating :|

 

[jmanpc 5,000+ posts]

It's a good looking sub, but there's a big gap between this sub's hype and its ability.

2.5" coil driver rated for 1000w. No.

Aluminum cone + tinsels that aren't woven. No.

Very soft suspension that there have been many reports of people messing up within days. No.

Smearing silicone on the cone to fix the tinsel problem. Laughable at best.

John, I respect your efforts, but this is really a sophomoric attempt at the market you're trying to penetrate. You failed to "idiot-proof" your sub. Seems to me that what you have is a 5-700w driver capable of taking 1000w if you're careful. But, if you rate it at 1000w and put it in the hands of the general car audio crowd, they'll tear it up within hours.

Yes, I'm aware it models oh-so-well, and that it opens up so many possibilities, but in all reality, it is just out of place in the car audio field.

Recommendations:

-Either use woven tinsels or a paper cone.

-Get spiders with some balls.

-Rate the sub at what it will handle day in and day out, with headroom for abuse. You know kids, they'll take a 1000w sub and throw 1,500w at it just because.

-If you're aiming at the car audio market, who cares about extension beyond 100hz?

As for the current models, sell them as replacements in 1970's floor speakers. They seem like they'd fit that bill perfectly. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif

 

[tommyk90 5,000+ posts]

I thought everybody would learn something from TC and realize that aluminum cones don't work.

 

[bose301s 5,000+ posts]

It's a good looking sub, but there's a big gap between this sub's hype and its ability.
2.5" coil driver rated for 1000w. No.

Aluminum cone + tinsels that aren't woven. No.

Very soft suspension that there have been many reports of people messing up within days. No.

Smearing silicone on the cone to fix the tinsel problem. Laughable at best.

John, I respect your efforts, but this is really a sophomoric attempt at the market you're trying to penetrate. You failed to "idiot-proof" your sub. Seems to me that what you have is a 5-700w driver capable of taking 1000w if you're careful. But, if you rate it at 1000w and put it in the hands of the general car audio crowd, they'll tear it up within hours.

Yes, I'm aware it models oh-so-well, and that it opens up so many possibilities, but in all reality, it is just out of place in the car audio field.

Recommendations:

-Either use woven tinsels or a paper cone.

-Get spiders with some balls.

-Rate the sub at what it will handle day in and day out, with headroom for abuse. You know kids, they'll take a 1000w sub and throw 1,500w at it just because.

-If you're aiming at the car audio market, who cares about extension beyond 100hz?

As for the current models, sell them as replacements in 1970's floor speakers. They seem like they'd fit that bill perfectly. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif

Well, it has been shown that it can handle 1000W and more no problem, bumpin buick threw more than that in one and it worked fine. 2.5" coild can handle a lot of power, you can throw much more than that on a 2.5" coil without burning the coil, but in a properly designed driver there is no need to.

The tinsels should work fine how they are now, but yes there are better ways to accomplish this, woven would work well, however a woven tinsel creates compliance cure irregularities. The current spiders also work fine for their intended purpose. Not everyone wants to be like Fi and build a 3KW driver and rate it at 1KW and lose efficiency, add mass, and raise Le through the roof. The new Mag V4 is rated at 1000 watts and even 1100 could destroy it, again, it is after a different market than the Fi type drivers.

Finally, the AV line isn't specifically targeted for car use, it is more targeted for home theater use but it just so happens to work in a car. Anyway, that is enough for now.

 

[snoopdan 5,000+ posts]

I thought everybody would learn something from TC and realize that aluminum cones don't work.

Apparently not.

I've refrained from poasting in this thread up until now mainly because it's been a shitfest I didn't want to even get involved in.

But that's really one poorly designed sub IMO. Santoprene? ya gotta be kiddn me //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif

Aim this to the home audio market, not here. They may be fooled by smoke and mirrors way easier than the car audio people.