Acoustic Elegance AV12-X D2!

[microhaxo 10+ year member]

This sub was never aimed at the car audio community. (atleast when i was interested in buying it) I just heard that it sounded amazing and wanted it for my CAR. I asked john how it works in cars and he said it works really good, but normally they are home theater subs. Check the AVS forums, huge threads about those subs among other HT subs.

But i must say. This sub works Great for car audio if you know what the hell you are doing. Maybe john will make a specific car audio line with a few tweaks line woven spider and a few misc changes here and there but why should john change his driver so he can just underrate it to protect against abuse? If you dont know what you are doing then there was never any reason to look at an AE sub to begin with, go check out some kickers or alpines if you want to play with toys.

You dont see people with mags feeding them 1600w...

 

[jmanpc 5,000+ posts]

I'm just saying... I don't doubt that the voice coil can handle 1000w thermally. The problem is... well, the rest of the soft parts.

If 1600w was able to rip the surround, rip the spider AND fold the cone on a "1000w" sub.... //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/hilarious.gif.02a037aad04aa96f19982b298a3d70a8.gif

I'm just saying, it may be able to handle 1000w for a while, but with all the reports of sagging suspension (Even due to GRAVITY! //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif), theres no way it should be rated to take 1000w daily.

There's nothing wrong with headroom. Subs have to be able to withstand some abuse. I have abused the **** out of some subs, giving 2-3x their rated power and NEVER folded a cone or ripped a surround. Everything from a piece of **** Pep Boys 8" to a nasty Kenwood 10" or a 15" L7.

If someone can completely total a 1000w sub with 1600w, that is laughable.

 

[microhaxo 10+ year member]

Dude, this is a completely HAND made driver intended for HT use. Its called Acoustic Elegance, not RETARDED BASS RESONANCE...

 

[bose301s 5,000+ posts]

I'm just saying... I don't doubt that the voice coil can handle 1000w thermally. The problem is... well, the rest of the soft parts.
If 1600w was able to rip the surround, rip the spider AND fold the cone on a "1000w" sub.... //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/hilarious.gif.02a037aad04aa96f19982b298a3d70a8.gif

I'm just saying, it may be able to handle 1000w for a while, but with all the reports of sagging suspension (Even due to GRAVITY! //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif), theres no way it should be rated to take 1000w daily.

There's nothing wrong with headroom. Subs have to be able to withstand some abuse. I have abused the **** out of some subs, giving 2-3x their rated power and NEVER folded a cone or ripped a surround. Everything from a piece of **** Pep Boys 8" to a nasty Kenwood 10" or a 15" L7.

If someone can completely total a 1000w sub with 1600w, that is laughable.

giving it 60% more power than it was designed for? I would say that would damage it. Put 60% more voltage to a houshold appliance and see how it holds up, not so good. but 1600 watts on the Mag V4 and you would shred the thing, no doubt and it is a 1000 watt sub. Also, EVERY subs suspension sags due to gravity.

 

[NDMstang65 10+ year member]

Well, it has been shown that it can handle 1000W and more no problem, bumpin buick threw more than that in one and it worked fine. 2.5" coild can handle a lot of power, you can throw much more than that on a 2.5" coil without burning the coil, but in a properly designed driver there is no need to.
The tinsels should work fine how they are now, but yes there are better ways to accomplish this, woven would work well, however a woven tinsel creates compliance cure irregularities. The current spiders also work fine for their intended purpose. Not everyone wants to be like Fi and build a 3KW driver and rate it at 1KW and lose efficiency, add mass, and raise Le through the roof. The new Mag V4 is rated at 1000 watts and even 1100 could destroy it, again, it is after a different market than the Fi type drivers.

Finally, the AV line isn't specifically targeted for car use, it is more targeted for home theater use but it just so happens to work in a car. Anyway, that is enough for now.

You sure are stuck on an inductance kick.

That simply proves that you believe everything that you read and take it to heart as the bible and do not question it because your bible says so.

Don't believe all the fancy white papers and laboratory testing and take it as the bible as this is the only way. Get to where you ask questions, dare to be different, and draw conclusions from testing yourself. Instead of believing everything a graph says..or is supposed to say. Making a sub with low inductance is very simple...it has to be put in a certain criteria though.

There's a 2.5 ton ford rollback beside my shop, was built in 1969 and has over a million miles on it. Everything on the thing is heavy old iron. It was built and built to last and be there from now on. Every single vehicle that you buy now is very 'technologically advanced' but is all disposable and made to be thrown away after 5-10 years of use (some last longer, most don't).

That thing was built back when it meant something to have an American product. Those workers built those trucks and stuff with our raw materials that came from here. Now they've all sold out to Mexico..nobody want's to buy a GM product now because yes it is an "American" Brand but it is all made in Mexico and outsourced...and they break if not before the warranty is out right after it is out so the end user has to buy something else new again.

It's about taking pride in what you do..and figure out what is wrong and what is right. This comes through time, trial, and error. There is a very good reason for every single thing that we do. If you want to be on 'the cutting edge of new technology' that's cool. The thing is low inductance on a speaker isn't new technology...it reminds me of a Marketing campaign that Heinz tried to do. Ultimately it is just a color of Ketchup that Heinz tried to push and it failed miserably because they attempted to change the Socially accepted norm..but we all know how that worked out and we don't see green and purple ketchup on the shelves at the grocery store. Because...every American knows that Ketchup is red.

 

[jmanpc 5,000+ posts]

And I'd also like to add that there's a HUGE difference between car audio and home apps.

In movies, the bass is hardly ever constant for more than a few seconds. 30 seconds if its a sick movie. Hypnotize, on the other hand, is three minutes of almost straight up tones. I'd say a Young Jeezy album would inflict much more pain on a sub than a flick filled with explosions.

 

[microhaxo 10+ year member]

Well my sub is holding up JUST fine and it sounds amazing, i have a 3 year warranty with nothing to worry about.

 

[snoopdan 5,000+ posts]

Well my sub is holding up JUST fine and it sounds amazing, i have a 3 year warranty with nothing to worry about.

Awesome, then on that third year when the spider is sagging, are you going to call John back up for a recone //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/confused.gif.e820e0216602db4765798ac39d28caa9.gif

 

[jmanpc 5,000+ posts]

Well my sub is holding up JUST fine and it sounds amazing, i have a 3 year warranty with nothing to worry about.

The following issues are considered abuse and do not constitute a warranty claim:Open voice coil

Burnt or charred voice coil

Bottomed voice coil

Out-gassed voice coil

Voice Coil with a bent former

Burnt tinsel leads

Spider sag

Speakers with silicone caulk used for gasket material

Damaged cone, surround, dustcap, or outer gasket

Damage caused by exposure to excessive heat, chemicals, water, and/or UV radiation

Damage caused by installation slips (screwdriver holes)

Damage caused by negligence, misuse, accident, or abuse

Damage caused during freight or transit

Return shipping on non-defective item

Other items or merchandise to which an Acoustic Elegance LLC product was installed, or used in conjunction with

Other items not manufactured by Acoustic Elegance LLC

Items previously repaired or modified by other than Acoustic Elegance LLC

Sounds to me like if your sub decides to break, you're SOL. I can't think of any other ways for a sub to break //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif

 

[bose301s 5,000+ posts]

You sure are stuck on an inductance kick.
That simply proves that you believe everything that you read and take it to heart as the bible and do not question it because your bible says so.

Don't believe all the fancy white papers and laboratory testing and take it as the bible as this is the only way. Get to where you ask questions, dare to be different, and draw conclusions from testing yourself. Instead of believing everything a graph says..or is supposed to say. Making a sub with low inductance is very simple...it has to be put in a certain criteria though.

There's a 2.5 ton ford rollback beside my shop, was built in 1969 and has over a million miles on it. Everything on the thing is heavy old iron. It was built and built to last and be there from now on. Every single vehicle that you buy now is very 'technologically advanced' but is all disposable and made to be thrown away after 5-10 years of use (some last longer, most don't).

That thing was built back when it meant something to have an American product. Those workers built those trucks and stuff with our raw materials that came from here. Now they've all sold out to Mexico..nobody want's to buy a GM product now because yes it is an "American" Brand but it is all made in Mexico and outsourced...and they break if not before the warranty is out right after it is out so the end user has to buy something else new again.

It's about taking pride in what you do..and figure out what is wrong and what is right. This comes through time, trial, and error. There is a very good reason for every single thing that we do. If you want to be on 'the cutting edge of new technology' that's cool. The thing is low inductance on a speaker isn't new technology...it reminds me of a Marketing campaign that Heinz tried to do. Ultimately it is just a color of Ketchup that Heinz tried to push and it failed miserably because they attempted to change the Socially accepted norm..but we all know how that worked out and we don't see green and purple ketchup on the shelves at the grocery store. Because...every American knows that Ketchup is red.

And you're stuck on the long coil, retardedly overbuilt wet fart sounding kick. Yes, low inductance may not be new but it is important. No everyone wants a sub that has to be crossed at 50Hz or lower to give any semblance of good sound. Fi is no different or special from any other sub company like you seem to think. Everyone wants something different, and to be honest, hell would have to freeze over before I bought a Fi sub for my system, however for others they are perfect.

 

[microhaxo 10+ year member]

Yes i will, 3 years is a LONG life for a sub in my opinion. I've never had a sub longer than 3 years in fact. Except for some old school rockfords, they hit for a long time. the only thing holding the cone on the frame is the GRILL covers, LMAO..

Also i dont abuse my sub. Its not going to see more than 1000w RMS.

 

[NDMstang65 10+ year member]

And you're stuck on the long coil, retardedly overbuilt wet fart sounding kick. Yes, low inductance may not be new but it is important. No everyone wants a sub that has to be crossed at 50Hz or lower to give any semblance of good sound. Fi is no different or special from any other sub company like you seem to think. Everyone wants something different, and to be honest, hell would have to freeze over before I bought a Fi sub for my system, however for others they are perfect.

It is only important because you have been taught that Purple Ketchup is your socially accepted norm.

Stuff i've got for industrial noise control applications literally have no

inductance...because the woofers play up to..you guessed it. 500Hz. I can do low inductance very easy. The problem is in car audio..they come back! (For reasons you are seeing..right here)

It's funny Fi subs sound like a wet fart..If I remember right we've got 3 world title SQ cars running the subs? Steve was running a pair of the 12 Q's..Mr. Budwala is running one of our subs as well. So is Dave Edwards...all of which have 'horrid inductance and can't sound good'

So tell me there slick, How many IASCA/USACi/MECA world championship cars are running low inductance and/or xbl^2 equipped woofers? I'll be waiting for that one.

I'm actually a huge fan of low inductance..just not within the context of 'car audio' within this particular scenario. Now SQ applications...if you want to do low inductance on a sub sure, but it isn't a deal breaker...but we've already had this discussion and you still do not get that you don't cross your sub at 100Hz in a SQ car that is worth anything.

You have a crowd that likes classical music...why are you going to setup Mason for a show for them when they don't like it and that isn't what they paid for?

 

[tommyk90 5,000+ posts]

Yes i will, 3 years is a LONG life for a sub in my opinion. I've never had a sub longer than 3 years in fact. Except for some old school rockfords, they hit for a long time. the only thing holding the cone on the frame is the GRILL covers, LMAO..

Also i dont abuse my sub. Its not going to see more than 1000w RMS.

I have had a 10" RE seXXX since 2003.

Originally I purchased it as a sub for my truck. First it was in a normal 1.5 cube, 35 hz box that sounded awesome.

Then I got into competing and stepped it up. Started shoving in excess of 2500 watts to it (it was rated for 1000). Burps and music. I used it for competition for over 2 years.

Now it resides in a 4 cube @ 20 hz (downfiring) home theater enclosure running off a 300w plate amp.

My old, beat up seXXX only shows slight signs of sagging, and I guarantee its been through a shitton more abuse than any AE driver. I've had the thing for over 6 years!

Bottom line is, don't rate a sub for 1000 watts if it's gonna crap out after a year. Rate the **** for 500 like it should be.

 

[microhaxo 10+ year member]

My system is crossed at 78hz. I would never bring it past that and this sub sounds WAY different compared to any of the other subs i have owned and or listened too.

I have yet to hear something better than the polks (sr214 i think ) to dominate the higher end of 70hz like they do in my friends mazda (horrible low end in his sealed box for some reason), but this sub is exactly what i wanted.

 

[nastyaudioman 10+ year member]

Well, it has been shown that it can handle 1000W and more no problem, bumpin buick threw more than that in one and it worked fine. 2.5" coild can handle a lot of power, you can throw much more than that on a 2.5" coil without burning the coil, but in a properly designed driver there is no need to.
The tinsels should work fine how they are now, but yes there are better ways to accomplish this, woven would work well, however a woven tinsel creates compliance cure irregularities. The current spiders also work fine for their intended purpose. Not everyone wants to be like Fi and build a 3KW driver and rate it at 1KW and lose efficiency, add mass, and raise Le through the roof. The new Mag V4 is rated at 1000 watts and even 1100 could destroy it, again, it is after a different market than the Fi type drivers.

Finally, the AV line isn't specifically targeted for car use, it is more targeted for home theater use but it just so happens to work in a car. Anyway, that is enough for now.

Something against Fi it seems? Why you be hating fool?

Dude, this is a completely HAND made driver intended for HT use. Its called Acoustic Elegance, not RETARDED BASS RESONANCE...

Well keep the fvck off a car audio forum where the sub will be destroyed.

 

[microhaxo 10+ year member]

Why does this have to turn into a flame war.. Do i have to be a bumbling bass happy ****TARD to be able to post on this forum? My setup is for quality, not burps and ghetto ****.

Plenty of people using dayton subs on here and i dont see them hating, what about the mag users, what about the Diyma????

Im starting to get pissed over all this ****. I make an honest review and everyone jumps on here dumping all over eachother saying he said this and this sub is garbage, will die in 3 years ETC.. I bet you havent even HEARD this sub play even once, so why dont you stfu.

 

[NDMstang65 10+ year member]

Something against Fi it seems? Why you be hating fool?

He don't like me because I don't sugar coat anything and blow smoke up anybody's butt to con their hard earned money out of their wallet with some pretty graphs and posters and 'because I said so' lines //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif. I'm just a realist..and call the pot black when the pot is black.

..Come to think of it that reminds me of those pesky smooth talking Vacuum cleaner salesman that used to go door to door selling shotty vacuums for a lot of money...

Go figure LOL.

 

[nastyaudioman 10+ year member]

He don't like me because I don't sugar coat anything and blow smoke up anybody's butt to con their hard earned money out of their wallet with some pretty graphs and posters and 'because I said so' lines //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif. I'm just a realist..and call the pot black when the pot is black.
..Come to think of it that reminds me of those pesky smooth talking Vacuum cleaner salesman that used to go door to door selling shotty vacuums for a lot of money...

Go figure LOL.

Oh man, I know what ya mean. Did you ever get the HT guy too? lol.

 

[NDMstang65 10+ year member]

HT guy?

 

[nastyaudioman 10+ year member]

Some fool with a $100 HT setup trying to tell me that MSRP is $1500 and willing to sell for $750. Kind of funny, you should have seen this junk.