10" sub..Sensitivity vs power handling vs weight

[Z1NONLY 10+ year member]

I recently bit the bullet and built a ported enclosure in my Z (was a single JL 10WX sealed .75 cube with 120w rms from an MTX 4244), then a friend of mine offered me a great deal on his 500/1v2.

I have been plugging in T/S numbers from a lot of different subs that I think would handle 500rms, but then I graphed my old JL 10w3v2. (I was using this in my work vehicle with 180w rms from a Kicker ZX460)

I seriously doubt the 10W3v2 or v3 could handle 500rms, but it apparently wouldn't need too.

@300w (which I hope it can handle) the v2 is graphing the same approximate output of other "tougher" subs @500w. (Fi, SA, DC etc) The 10w3v3 needs 400 watts for the same output.

I track this car regularly, so a ported 1.1 cube (after slot-port and 10w3v2 displacement) enclosure and 10" woofer is already a weight compromise of sorts.

I have shifted my search from subs that can handle 500w to subs that have enough sensitivity to get loud without needing a 30lb magnet and 500watts to do it. (And sounding decent in the process would be nice too)

Anyone have recommendations for subs that graph around 112db, with decent response curves, at or below, 500watts RMS? (I'm using Bass Box Pro 6, but I'm not that concerned with the software if we are all comparing the same subs)

If it happens to be lighter too, great. (but not required.)

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[Z1NONLY 10+ year member]

Anyone?

 

[Heeltoeclutch 10+ year member]

I feel your pain man, I tried to do everything possible to avoid adding too much weight cuz I wanted to keep my car reasonably quick.

After nothing else got the results I wanted I ended up also biting the bullet and getting an SSA DCON 10" S4 and building a 1 cube ported box for it, and am so glad I did. The sub gets uncomfortably loud for most people (including me) running below RMS, and the SQ is very satisfying as well! I'm running it off of an old US Amps USA-50HC, which is rated at 100W bridged at 4 ohms (but it's an old US Amps amp, sooooo probly a bit more than that). The sub is rated for 300W RMS. It weighs 20 lbs. total. I couldn't be happier with it.

Just my 2 cents //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

Edit: oh and just an FYI - I built the box with 1/2" MDF to save more weight and used flared PVC as the port to save more weight //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif some stuff to consider.

Here tis

 

[hispls 5,000+ posts]

First of all if you already have the JL try it out, it may do what you need. Second, if weight is an issue try 5/8" cabinet grade plywood instead of 3/4 MDF. Likely at those power levels flexing won't be an issue, and if it is some strategic bracing with pine dowels should suffice to tighten it up.

I'd also say if weight is an issue pony up the dough for a neo magnet driver. In theory the difference between 400 and 500W will be nearly inaudible anyway.

 

[SPLaudio 5,000+ posts]

single 10 can get really loud and sound good. i could build you something //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[Z1NONLY 10+ year member]

Thanks guys, the W3v2 is going to get 300w out of that 500/1 once I get some more power cable ran. I was just wondering if there were options I had not yet considered. It's rather loud with the 180 watts out of the zx460. The 500/1 adjusted for 300w @-3db @50Hz should not ever come close to clipping and the 250 damping factor is probably much better than the zx460 right now. (2 channels bridged into one @ 2 ohms)

The w3v2 is old so I wonder how long it will be before I need to refoam.

 

[Z1NONLY 10+ year member]

Edit: oh and just an FYI - I built the box with 1/2" MDF to save more weight and used flared PVC as the port to save more weight //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif some stuff to consider.
Here tis

I was going to use 5/8 but none was available when I went to get the MDF. The Z needs at least half a tank of gas to help the rear tires hook up out of turns. Now that I have that sub right over the rear tires, I'll just start running with 1/4 tank. (That's what I'm telling myself so I feel better anyway)

 

[TheUnderFighter 10+ year member]

I was going to recommend a Dcon as well... But, you could also look at some 8" drivers. I am sure they would still offer the output you need, and you could get by with a smaller enclosure. The few I would recommend would be an SA-8, Soundsplinter's Oprhan 8's which are on closeout, DC level 2... those are beefy 8" that you can run with under 1^ft... Also, something to consider would be building your enclosure out of birch, which is often used when weight is a concern. I don't know how much lighter it is, but I would also think with a lower powered set-up such as this, 5/8 wouldn't be a problem. I looked around Partsexpress for some smaller 8" Woofers, that still can handle around 300w, I'll post the links for you here:

TC Sounds Epic 8" DVC Subwoofer

Dayton Audio RSS210HF-4 8" Reference HF Subwoofer 4 Ohm

Tang Band W8-1747A 8" Aluminum Cone Subwoofer

Tang Band W8-1747 8" Aluminum Cone Subwoofer

Tang Band W8-740P 8" Subwoofer

Smaller, more efficient drivers mean less weight, and smaller box

 

[Z1NONLY 10+ year member]

Well the box is already built. I have another event in a couple weeks. If my time suffers on the test & tune track (very consistent on that course, so I will see a difference on the clock if this enclosure is hurting performance), I may build another lighter box.

Here's the "compromise" box.... The hight of the port was limited by the strut tower and the width was limited for maximum mounding depth. (A hair over 8") The top of the port was 1/4 MDF and furring strips ripped to 1.25 inches were used to support the port. VV shouldn't be an issue unless I get about 700 watts to something like a W6v2 and that's only around 20Hz. It sounds good @180 watts right now...

Here's the new box with a WX next to the box I raced with for years. (you can get an idea of how much I've added.

And mounted in the car (This is the WX, I have since installed the W3v2, and cleaned up the wires with the new amp rack)

little "stealth" amp rack. (There's a stock panel that covers it) There's enough room for the 500/1 in there too.

 

[TheUnderFighter 10+ year member]

Clean install. Well then I guess this is null for a couple more weeks until you get on the track again. If time doesn't suffer, then you can leave it and be good. If it does, back to the drawing board?

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

I recently bit the bullet and built a ported enclosure in my Z (was a single JL 10WX sealed .75 cube with 120w rms from an MTX 4244), then a friend of mine offered me a great deal on his 500/1v2.
I have been plugging in T/S numbers from a lot of different subs that I think would handle 500rms, but then I graphed my old JL 10w3v2. (I was using this in my work vehicle with 180w rms from a Kicker ZX460)

I seriously doubt the 10W3v2 or v3 could handle 500rms, but it apparently wouldn't need too.

@300w (which I hope it can handle) the v2 is graphing the same approximate output of other "tougher" subs @500w. (Fi, SA, DC etc) The 10w3v3 needs 400 watts for the same output.

I track this car regularly, so a ported 1.1 cube (after slot-port and 10w3v2 displacement) enclosure and 10" woofer is already a weight compromise of sorts.

I have shifted my search from subs that can handle 500w to subs that have enough sensitivity to get loud without needing a 30lb magnet and 500watts to do it. (And sounding decent in the process would be nice too)

Anyone have recommendations for subs that graph around 112db, with decent response curves, at or below, 500watts RMS? (I'm using Bass Box Pro 6, but I'm not that concerned with the software if we are all comparing the same subs)

If it happens to be lighter too, great. (but not required.)

Hoffman's Iron Law tells us that unless you are willing to sacrifice low frequency extension, the added output you will gain from higher sensitivity will be offset by the added weight of a larger enclosure.

 

[THATpurpleKUSH 5,000+ posts]

Look at the Boston Acoustics G1 series. Very good entry level woofers. The 12in version weighs about 10lbs. All BA subs have very lightweight cones and are very efficient. I ran 500wrms to my G1 and hit a 137 with it in a ported daily tuned box. They are very musical and to me BA stuff has better sq than JL. They do make the g1 in an 8in version too. A pair would be perfect for 500wrms.

 

[Z1NONLY 10+ year member]

Clean install. Well then I guess this is null for a couple more weeks until you get on the track again. If time doesn't suffer, then you can leave it and be good. If it does, back to the drawing board?

Thanks.

...Pretty much. Although, I Just remembered that I haven't removed my spare and jack at the track in over 5 years. (Ever since I decided I needed some weight over the rear tires.) If I start removing that stuff at the track, I might just break even weight wise, but having the weight in front of the rear tires is better than behind the rear tires where the spare is.

Look at the Boston Acoustics G1 series. Very good entry level woofers. The 12in version weighs about 10lbs. All BA subs have very lightweight cones and are very efficient. I ran 500wrms to my G1 and hit a 137 with it in a ported daily tuned box. They are very musical and to me BA stuff has better sq than JL. They do make the g1 in an 8in version too. A pair would be perfect for 500wrms.

Just graphed the G2 and G3 subs and I'm liking what I'm seeing. (Looking at the 10's)

 

[Kangaroux 5,000+ posts]

Just graphed the G2 and G3 subs and I'm liking what I'm seeing. (Looking at the 10's)

Just keep in mind graphing will only do so much lol. I've graphed subs that marked up terribly but performed just fine in reality

 

[Z1NONLY 10+ year member]

I can understand that. The graphing is just for apples to apples comparisons. Once any given system is put into a vehicle, the reference response curve goes out the window. I used to be very skeptical of any "on paper" representation of sound, but this software has never surprised me with respect to relative output and response. When comparing different subs in the same box/amp/car, it always sounds like it "looks" in the software.

SQ is another matter though. Simply having a given output at a given frequency doesn't necessarily mean it will sound good doing it.