Break in period for subs

[Buck 5,000+ posts]

This is the biggest issue I see. The only drivers that would actually need a break in period would be very high powered, long stroke drivers. And compared to the "normal" JL 10w3 or whatever, there are a very small portion of people running true 3000 watt capable drivers.

I'm a numbers guy myself, but this isn't a situation where I have to have numbers to justify my conclusion. Companies A through J have a break in procedure for their higher tier woofers. Could they be covering their *** just for tits? Sure, but most companies wouldn't even bother having a break in procedure unless there was a prior issue to warrant it and cut down on warranty claims.

Add in the fact that the spiders or spider packs needed to handle the true 3000w woofers are extremely stiff, and that they are made partly of resin, it's a no brainer to me personally.

Hell, on one of the 18 inch home theater subs I helped install(can't recall the brand or model, this was years ago, sorry.) you could set a 2 liter on the dustcap and the cone wouldn't move hardly at all.

I would equate a spider wearing in to something like tempering a blade after hardening. A hardened blade is very tough, but it isn't flexible. It's very easy to snap a freshly hardened blade. But after tempering, that same blade looses a bit of "toughness" but gains flexibility.

Matt

Thanks. That’s a good writing there.

 

[Kickstand Premium Member]

I don't think hispls is being argumentative or even getting worked up. He has a valid point. Numbers win arguments, otherwise it's no different than the guy whose buddy hits 200db with two twelves. That and I'm sure he's sick of this topic coming up without anyone providing proof. Comparing anyone to sloride is a low blow.

@Buck 's info from dd that it applies more to 2000w+ drivers makes it even less likely that it will be tested by anyone but manufacturers simply due to cost, and i think we can agree that manufacturers have something to gain by pointing the finger at customers to avoid warranty claims.

I remember reading that Kicker solobarics hit higher scores right out of the box than after being worn in.

I get what your saying
The problem is that a lot of people that are new to the hobby read through these posts looking for information.
Now I run DD's and every single sub I have came with a break in advisement even the 2500 and 3500 series
So what I'm saying is the level of opposition to the subject is telling people not to bother to do it
Are we really going to sit here and tell people not to break in their subs?
I have never heard of anyone damaging their subs directly related to breaking them in
I have heard of people blowing their subs right after they put them in and run full power to them right away
When your a 10 year plus member with 10,000+ post people pay attention to what you say
This is one of those better safe than sorry situations

 

[metalheadjoe 10+ year member]

I get what your saying
The problem is that a lot of people that are new to the hobby read through these posts looking for information.
Now I run DD's and every single sub I have came with a break in advisement even the 2500 and 3500 series
So what I'm saying is the level of opposition to the subject is telling people not to bother to do it
Are we really going to sit here and tell people not to break in their subs?
I have never heard of anyone damaging their subs directly related to breaking them in
I have heard of people blowing their subs right after they put them in and run full power to them right away
When your a 10 year plus member with 10,000+ post people pay attention to what you say
This is one of those better safe than sorry situations

"Better safe than sorry" mindset is the root of anxiety, and anxiety/ocd is no picnic. From example: I can tell you my doors will ALWAYS be locked at night at the expense of lost sleep every night. At some point you have to introduce logic. "Better safe than sorry" suggests you should NEVER run your speakers at full power (or have loud stereos for that matter).

 

[metalheadjoe 10+ year member]

There is NOTHING we can do to our equipment that the manufacturer can't do before it leaves their factory, if they deem it necessary. If certain parts require certain procedures before they are optimally usable, manufacturers are far better equipped to perform those procedures. Businesses don't care about how our stereos sound; they care about making money. The exception is drivers that aren't mass-produced.

If it makes you feel better to play your stereo quieter for a while, go for it, but don't say it's necessary without evidence.

@mat3833 you compared spiders to motor oil and steel blades. Does that make any sense? "Metal can be hardened through certain processes, better play my subs at low volume for a while!"

Does everyone who is pro-break-in do it simply to play it safe? "Playing it safe" translates to "not experienced enough to know what will happen". Nothing wrong with that; I also have subjects where I play it safe due to inexperience, but don't tout on like your inexperienced opinion is the fruit of vast experience. There's a difference between "being safe" and "playing it safe".

 

[RBarlow]

What did you find? I honestly don’t do much of a break in but can see why others do

I found a thread from I think 2017 and pretty much exactly what we have here it went back n forth some did it and believed you should the other half didn't n said it was a waste of time. Lol I'm gonna do it just for the piece of mind this way if something bad happens to a sub il know I did whatever I could to give them their best chance. But up until a few years I had never even heard of not one shop that I bought from ever said a thing about break in? Prob just wanted repeat business lil

 

[RBarlow]

I found a thread from I think 2017 and pretty much exactly what we have here it went back n forth some did it and believed you should the other half didn't n said it was a waste of time. Lol I'm gonna do it just for the piece of mind this way if something bad happens to a sub il know I did whatever I could to give them their best chance. But up until a few years I had never even heard of not one shop that I bought from ever said a thing about break in? Prob just wanted repeat business lil

And my idea of break in is I'm just gonna wire them different to make ohms go up which will inturn as we all know make Amp less powerful unless it's a smart 3 lol

 

[mat3833 10+ year member]

There is NOTHING we can do to our equipment that the manufacturer can't do before it leaves their factory, if they deem it necessary. If certain parts require certain procedures before they are optimally usable, manufacturers are far better equipped to perform those procedures. Businesses don't care about how our stereos sound; they care about making money. The exception is drivers that aren't mass-produced.

If it makes you feel better to play your stereo quieter for a while, go for it, but don't say it's necessary without evidence.

@mat3833 you compared spiders to motor oil and steel blades. Does that make any sense? "Metal can be hardened through certain processes, better play my subs at low volume for a while!"

Does everyone who is pro-break-in do it simply to play it safe? "Playing it safe" translates to "not experienced enough to know what will happen". Nothing wrong with that; I also have subjects where I play it safe due to inexperience, but don't tout on like your inexperienced opinion is the fruit of vast experience. There's a difference between "being safe" and "playing it safe".

I didn't compare motor oil to spiders that was a seperate discussion. I made the tempering comment as a comparison. Trying to make an apples to apples comparison isn't really possible. Some people might understand what tempering does to a blade.

The evidence presented is simply manufacturer recommendations and user accounts. There is no quantifiable data available as far as I am aware of. In my experience with a few 3" and 4" coil woofers with various power ratings and motor strengths, there is a noticeable difference in suspension stiffness after some play time.

For me personally this is just how I do it. I give things with mechanical parts a chance to wear in before I hammer on them. Perhaps this comes from building engines when I was a kid, but either way it is what it is. If I spend a thousand dollars on a speaker, I'm intending on taking care of it and using it for a long time. To me, spending 15 minutes playing some test tones free air to listen for mechanical noises is part of my "receiving process". I set my gains with the speaker disconnected, and I do listen at lower volume for a period of time before turning it up. The beehive 18 I have now was given more time than anything else to wear in simply because it is irreplaceable. It got a full 10 hours of 500w playtime, then another 10 hours at 1000w, then it was pulled from the car during a baffle change and tested free-air at around 1500w before going back in the car and dailying at 2k. Would I consider that normal? Not really, but it didn't inconvenience me one bit.

Playing it safe isn't a bad thing sometimes. I'm not going to advocate being overly careful in everything you do, nor do I nessecarily see an issue with someone being cautious in their life. Everyone can do their own thing, it's their choice.

Do all loudspeakers need a break in? Nope. Do some need a break in? Possibly, so I'll follow manufactures recommendations just like I would when buying a car, or a motor from an engine builder, or putting together a new seal assembly for a $65,000 machine. You do you, and I'll do me. But I certainly don't want to not speak up when someone asks this question.

Matt

 

[mat3833 10+ year member]

And my idea of break in is I'm just gonna wire them different to make ohms go up which will inturn as we all know make Amp less powerful unless it's a smart 3 lol

Wiring at a higher ohm load does reduce the amps output. But you should still be setting your gain with a multimeter either way. I happen to run a smart 3, and at 4 ohms it doesnt make 3000w, it also needs a different output voltage at 2 and 1 ohm to produce the rated 3000w.

Matt

 

[RBarlow]

You were the ******* first, bro. You started it. If you're going to call everything I say bullshit like that, and then claim I'm doing a magic ritual like a sarcastic *******, that's how I'm going to talk to you.

You have something to prove, I don't.

You look for stuff to call me out on bro. You try to correct me on stuff all the time. I don't care.

I'm just sharing my experience. I never said a DD sub sagged. I said an Alpine did, an old one, that had been played a lot. My point was the more that you play a speaker, the more age it gets. Everything eventually fails man, that's aging, everything ages and it changes things, especially if a woofer is being used that whole time. Woofers get worn out suspension wise after lots and lots of playing (takes a very long time, people usually don't have this problem). But I'm just speaking on what I've seen to explain certain factors of subs in certain contexts.



DO YOU EVER PLAY 25 HZ BRO? TELL ME. I'M NOT TALKING UNTIL YOU TELL ME THAT YOU PLAY 25 HZ SO YOU CAN UNDERSTAND WHERE I'M COMING FROM. I'M NOT TUNED AT F*CKING 38-40 HZ. BREAK IN DOESN'T MATTER NEARLY AS MUCH WHEN YOU'RE TUNED THAT HIGH.

ONCE AGAIN, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THINGS TOWARDS ME IN A WAY I DIDN'T STATE THEM.

I never claimed sh*t about t/s parameters, expect where you can see where a woofer has been tested with zero break in time, like some Skar t/s parameters seem to be.

You keep saying t/s parameters and changes in response to me, like you're proving yourself right, when I never mentioned t/s parameters.

I don't need t/s parameters to confirm what my ears are hearing. It's not anecdotal evidence. You might as well go ahead and call me a liar and full of sh*t. How in the living f*ck would YOU know anything about what I'VE heard and how it sounded? That's a really big ******* assumption that only your experiences are correct.

So do you play 25 hz? Answer the question and don't avoid it, because it's completely relevant. You don't have to break in much to play 35-40 hz, if any at all.

Oh that's right, you don't think anybody should like any sound other than what YOU like. So therefore people don't need to break in because they shouldn't play lows because you don't like lows. And all of this is a complicated subject. This is the opposite of a one size fits all recommendation. Just the type of music you listen to can determine a break in, if it's even needed dude.

Let me know when DD is sending you box designs directly. Because that's what I have. DD, the actual company, sends me box design customers that contact them, sometimes, if the situation is appropriate. So I certainly must be an idiot.

You're trying to be so right that you aren't even listening to my side. You've made up your mind that you know everything and very aggressively go after things you think are BS. I largely respect that, actually. But you aren't really getting what I'm saying, I don't feel like, based off how you respond to me.

I don't even think I can hear 25hz so yeah I'm tuned to 40 and It hits everything I need it hopefully someday I will have the refined pallet like you gents I imagine it comes with experience so il get there I'm in it for the long haul now drinking n drugging days behind me actually have the money n ambition to be into it again so thanks to all you guys who do take the time to answer ppls questions and share some of ur knowledge it's appreciated

 

[Buck 5,000+ posts]

I don't even think I can hear 25hz so yeah I'm tuned to 40 and It hits everything I need it hopefully someday I will have the refined pallet like you gents I imagine it comes with experience so il get there I'm in it for the long haul now drinking n drugging days behind me actually have the money n ambition to be into it again so thanks to all you guys who do take the time to answer ppls questions and share some of ur knowledge it's appreciated

I could definitely hear 25 hz I had a decaf song that played 40 and 25 hz, and dude, it was sooooo loud. It absolutely murdered my Explorer, that's why I had to have the hatch welded where I broke stuff 3 separate times. I broke stuff bad enough, with 2400 rated watts, I almost lost my entire rear glass, because everything broke that was holding it on, except for one bolt. My Explorer would hit 25 hz. I was doing a mid to high 140's from 25-29. It fell off fairly steeply, but I could hit like a 147 at somewhere between 27-29 hz, and iirc it was a 145 at 25-26 hz, but it fell off really badly iirc at like 23 hz or so.

The song Get Silly, that has the high 20's note in it, I used to mess with people, because most people had no idea there was bass in that song like there was, because few people could really grab that note. I trolled people a little, lol.

 

[RBarlow]

Wiring at a higher ohm load does reduce the amps output. But you should still be setting your gain with a multimeter either way. I happen to run a smart 3, and at 4 ohms it doesnt make 3000w, it also needs a different output voltage at 2 and 1 ohm to produce the rated 3000w.

Matt

Ahh I seen drill labs on YouTube test one n he got everything thdy claimed but I do remember something with volts though but yeah I usually try not to turn my gains past half which is where it is now n il leave it unless whsn I do wire it back to a 2 ohm final load they sound underpowered but usually my last option I go to I will play with sub sonic crossovers I have an old school even though my radio has a better on I just like playing connect the dots

 

[RBarlow]

I could definitely hear 25 hz I had a decaf song that played 40 and 25 hz, and dude, it was sooooo loud. It absolutely murdered my Explorer, that's why I had to have the hatch welded where I broke stuff 3 separate times. I broke stuff bad enough, with 2400 rated watts, I almost lost my entire rear glass, because everything broke that was holding it on, except for one bolt. My Explorer would hit 25 hz. I was doing a mid to high 140's from 25-29. It fell off fairly steeply, but I could hit like a 147 at somewhere between 27-29 hz, and iirc it was a 145 at 25-26 hz, but it fell off really badly iirc at like 23 hz or so.

The song Get Silly, that has the high 20's note in it, I used to mess with people, because most people had no idea there was bass in that song like there was, because few people could really grab that note. I trolled people a little, lol.

Holy shit I remember that was the record when I was last into this and used to have like 4 different mag subs car audio being one of them but I still have the article it was a yellow blazer with 16 15 inch subs and 4 1000 watt Amps lol it hit 147 and held the record prob mid 90s

 

[RBarlow]

Holy shit I remember that was the record when I was last into this and used to have like 4 different mag subs car audio being one of them but I still have the article it was a yellow blazer with 16 15 inch subs and 4 1000 watt Amps lol it hit 147 and held the record prob mid 90s

I have to figure out what hertz my components try ans play once in a while and change it cause it will sound like zhit only like in 2 spots on 2 different songs every other song I've played tgere were no issue but I have 90s Era mb quart q series 3 way its an 8 inch a 5 n quarter a tweeter with the beefiest crossovers I've ever seen come with a component set so how do I figure what hz that is it's some where in the lows but seems like it goes lower with no issues this is like in the middle somewhere if I had to guess

 

[hispls 5,000+ posts]

I have heard of people blowing their subs right after they put them in and run full power to them right away

If a loudspeaker is breaking at or below rated power in 5 minutes or 5 years it is either because somebody lied about power handling or there was a problem with manufacturing/materials or there was some other kind of gross abuse or user error happening. There's nothing that happens after (insert number of hours and the magic ritual of your choice here) that is going to be the difference between survival or failure of a sub. Or put another way if you're breaking a woofer, it would have broken under those conditions regardless of what ceremony you performed beforehand.

Once again I'll point out the fact that I'm not saying anything gets louder. The difference in mechanical compliance could surely be measured

I think many break-in believers do claim this, and yes, compliance does change and is (and has been) measured. I offered to share some of my own data on the subject as well as providing several links to data that others have measured but I was attacked saying that doesn't mean anything. Which ironically is more or less true, because the changes in specs (most of which which happen very quickly) do not predict any audible difference over time between new out of the box and the point where they wear out and fail.

Diaphragms are made of a very flexible material. The Yamada diaphragm pumps we use are hilariously durable, because they are ment to be.

As are loudspeaker parts. In fact, I'd wager any well made modern subwoofer used within its limits will out-last the moving parts in a double diaphragm pump.

Sundown Zv2 spider here 8 3/4" version. Seems to suffer no ill effects from folding it in half and feels noticeably softer after just a minute of bending it back and forth in my hands. Since DD came up a lot, they use multiple layers of rather soft and thin spiders.

the spiders or spider packs needed to handle the true 3000w woofers are extremely stiff

Like the Sundown spider in the pic above?

i think we can agree that manufacturers have something to gain by pointing the finger at customers to avoid warranty claims.

I remember reading that Kicker solobarics hit higher scores right out of the box than after being worn in.

Considering this myth is wildly propagated by some ultra expensive snobophile home theater product manufacturers I'd say it's as much as anything just setting the stage for the buyers' expectations when they first get the product installed and start comparing it to whatever they had before or whatever they expect. It's basically saying "hey, don't return this right away if you don't like the sound, just give it a few weeks/months and it'll sound totally different!" Not so much about "breaking in" your new speakers/cables/whatever snake oil they just sold you, but breaking in the listener to get used to the different sound or even just setting the stage of expectation which the user will create for himself via psychoacoustics.

As far as people gaining with fresh subs/recones this would be extremely install dependent and certainly inaudible (under 1dB, and in reality probably only a couple tenths, or in other words the amount of variance you'd likely experience due to changes in the weather, humidity, air pressure, etc.). If anybody could just go ahead and gain a full dB based on the suspension of a new sub those manufacturers would either be designing parts to maintain whatever specs gain so much or be scrambling to keep up with demand for fresh new parts to give competitors the edge.

The song Get Silly, that has the high 20's note in it

And finally posting some of the music with <30hz material in it. Cool. I'll remember that if I ever have the occasion to mess with low tuning.

 

[hispls 5,000+ posts]

a yellow blazer with 16 15 inch subs and 4 1000 watt Amps lol it hit 147 and held the record prob mid 90s

World record inn 1991 was around 151 and change held by M&M. By 97 Alma Gates had just broken 160 and in 98 her and others were getting into the 170s. Those 90s numbers were old Audiocontrol meters so who knows how accurate those were? That said I think it was around 96 or 97 that the Lanzar van was up in my area with a dozen 15s in a v wall, they claimed 157dB or thereabouts. It was really intense and IMO that build would still turn heads today. Mid 150s out of sealed boxes is nothing to sneeze at.