Break in period for subs

That's not quite how that works bro. That's why there are two number on a bottle of oil such as 10w30. 10 being the cold viscosity rating and 30 being the warm. Waiting for your car to warm up is dumb but it's not going to hurt anything. Starting your car and driving it immediately isn't going to hurt anything either, it's an old wives tale.

View attachment 30756

























Yes, I run 0w40 in my jetta, I've got 280k miles on the original motor running 28-30 psi of boost daily.

oil pressure doesn't equal oil flow, and cold oil even the 0wt in my jetta does resist flow more than warm oil. You can block off the outlet of your oil pump and your oil pressure will be fantastic, but you have no oil circulation. The oil voscosity ratings on the bottle are measured at certain Temps, and most daily vehicles now use a 0w20 or 0w30 oil. Race engines usually run 20w50 or even a straight 50wt oil. Getting a little heat in your engine/oil isn't dumb, metals expand when they heat up and different metals expand at different rates. I personally don't go into boost until I've driven about a mile or so, if I wasn't so lazy I'd get an oil temp gauge to go with my others, but im not that anal about it.

My cold Rev comment was in regards to the jackasses in their squatted trucks starting their stone cold trucks and then revving them to redline repeatedly because it's "cool". Getting in your car and driving it normally isn't going to hurt a damn thing. But getting in your car and redlining every gear is certainly not good, especially if you have a journal bearing turbocharger with a tiny ass orifice for oil to circulate through like my jetta. Warming up your car is an old wives tale for the most part now, however it wasn't a wives tale back in the 60s and 70s.

Matt
 
My argument is solely on damaging spiders,
Got any evidence to support this claim? Can any of this be quantified? For example, how do we know precisely how much power your woofer can handle before failing before and after you perform the proper rituals? Exactly what method must be used for "break in" and for how long?
come into any thread and say you are God-king and everyone should bow at your feet.
Please cite where I said this. Mostly I'm just asking for evidence to support any of these rather wild claims about "break in" in regards to loudspeakers.
mechanical compliance and failures resulting from improper care is the most common problem I deal with
So in your line of work, do those products only work to spec after some initial half-duty operation or do they work as soon as they're installed and then gradually atrophy until they are no longer fit for use? Do you have any data that you must measure to see if things are still performing as they should or are parts replaced/repaired only after they obviously/visibly fail or show stress?

Wrong. Asking it twice would be a “silly question”. Asking it once is just wanting to know more. No need for the hostility. I’m not even arguing with you.

I'm not trying to argue with you either. You just left out way too many details for any sort of accurate guess. Again, knowing nothing else I can safely say if you take your current equipment right now and change your vehicle into a wall build you could lose or you could gain huge. Even if we assume everything optimized pre and post wall this still may vary depending on the vehicle; for example CRX is so good acoustically for no-wall you might even lose on the meter trying to wall, if you have a huge cargo van you almost couldn't help but gain simply for reducing the cabin area you need to pressurize. The more specifics you added the closer we could collectively hazard a guess as to how much you would stand to gain.

He gives me t/s data on DD stuff
Share please. Did you chastise him telling him you didn't ask about that and that TS parameters don't matter?
Either way, I'm certainly not arguing that these changes happen and I've already offered to share measured TS parameters I have measured myself which are likely consistent with DD's claim.
My points are that these changes will happen much more quickly than "break in" proponents would have us believe and will almost certainly be inaudible. I have yet to see anybody in the lanes put in fresh subs and then consistently gain throughout the season while changing nothing else solely do to softparts stretching out.
I also do not believe for a minute that there is some proper method to initially soften up a spider that will make it perform any different than any other. Again, you can confirm this by getting a very stiff spider and just working it in your hands and feel it soften up a bit within a few minutes. Now consider how many times you can flex it in a minute vs 25 times per second letting your amp do the work once installed.

And if you want to argue against Digital Designs, keep in mind that they are one of the best and loudest SPL companies in the world, they held the world record for SPL for years with Alan Dante, IIRC. 182-183.xx dB, iirc. It got broken a few years ago, I think. I don't remember by who, if anyone knows, post that up.

Current top 4 on the Termlab leaderboard are all the same team out of Russia running Deaf Bonce, Sundown and Crossfire subs. I'm sure once Dante "breaks in" those DDs a little more he'll gain up a full deeb though and blow those guys out of the water.

Guys using DD subs doing well in the lanes is not evidence or data to support break in lore. Do Sundown, DB, or Crossfire subs require "break in"? Do you really imagine the materials they use are all that different than anything else on the market in that tier?

Still waiting on some evidence to support some process other than normal use is required, that the most dramatic changes won't happen within minutes, and that any of this will be audible.
 
Got any evidence to support this claim? Can any of this be quantified? For example, how do we know precisely how much power your woofer can handle before failing before and after you perform the proper rituals? Exactly what method must be used for "break in" and for how long?

Please cite where I said this. Mostly I'm just asking for evidence to support any of these rather wild claims about "break in" in regards to loudspeakers.

So in your line of work, do those products only work to spec after some initial half-duty operation or do they work as soon as they're installed and then gradually atrophy until they are no longer fit for use? Do you have any data that you must measure to see if things are still performing as they should or are parts replaced/repaired only after they obviously/visibly fail or show stress?



I'm not trying to argue with you either. You just left out way too many details for any sort of accurate guess. Again, knowing nothing else I can safely say if you take your current equipment right now and change your vehicle into a wall build you could lose or you could gain huge. Even if we assume everything optimized pre and post wall this still may vary depending on the vehicle; for example CRX is so good acoustically for no-wall you might even lose on the meter trying to wall, if you have a huge cargo van you almost couldn't help but gain simply for reducing the cabin area you need to pressurize. The more specifics you added the closer we could collectively hazard a guess as to how much you would stand to gain.


Share please. Did you chastise him telling him you didn't ask about that and that TS parameters don't matter?
Either way, I'm certainly not arguing that these changes happen and I've already offered to share measured TS parameters I have measured myself which are likely consistent with DD's claim.
My points are that these changes will happen much more quickly than "break in" proponents would have us believe and will almost certainly be inaudible. I have yet to see anybody in the lanes put in fresh subs and then consistently gain throughout the season while changing nothing else solely do to softparts stretching out.
I also do not believe for a minute that there is some proper method to initially soften up a spider that will make it perform any different than any other. Again, you can confirm this by getting a very stiff spider and just working it in your hands and feel it soften up a bit within a few minutes. Now consider how many times you can flex it in a minute vs 25 times per second letting your amp do the work once installed.



Current top 4 on the Termlab leaderboard are all the same team out of Russia running Deaf Bonce, Sundown and Crossfire subs. I'm sure once Dante "breaks in" those DDs a little more he'll gain up a full deeb though and blow those guys out of the water.

Guys using DD subs doing well in the lanes is not evidence or data to support break in lore. Do Sundown, DB, or Crossfire subs require "break in"? Do you really imagine the materials they use are all that different than anything else on the market in that tier?

Still waiting on some evidence to support some process other than normal use is required, that the most dramatic changes won't happen within minutes, and that any of this will be audible.

You are acting like a God-king bro. Chill the f*ck out, seriously. I don't even want to continue this because of how toxic your responses are. It's like a migraine for me to have an opinion on this, with you.

People wayyyy more successful than you or I recommend break in's for their woofers, some don't. I really don't give a f*ck what anybody does with their woofers, related to this. The whole point of this is to discuss both sides.

You're taking some stuff out of context too, purposefully so to be ugly with your personality, I think I'm done trying with this one. You're just too heated on this subject, for whatever reason, like it's actually going to change something in the audio world. You keep acting like I worship the break in or something, to me, and I don't. I'm just speaking from my experience. If I see the sky as blue, I'm gonna say the sky is blue.

If you claim people can't hear the differences in sound when their woofer plays differently, you might as well just go ahead call people idiots or ******** or liars, while you're at it. Sorry you need parameters to know something that you can easily hear with your ears. I've heard it will my ears, over and over, and over, and OVER. I don't have t/s testing equipment; I've looked at pre and post break in data, woofer t/s definitely change after some play time from fresh, like I'm just not sure what side you're arguing really. Subs to have to break in some, they do soften up some, even though a lot of that seems to be fairly quickly.

Your responses has turned this thread into an unworkable one.
 
Like I still don't like we're actually disagreeing. You're just trying to poke a hole in everything for any reason, I feel like. Even though some of this stuff I said seems to match some of the stuff you said.
 
something that you can easily hear with your ears
Funny how so many people can hear the difference but nobody seems to be able to quantify or measure it. You do realize we could find dozens, possibly hundreds of people that will swear up and down that they can really hear the difference when they switch up to 700$ cables.

Your responses has turned this thread into an unworkable one.
Yep, asking for proofs really pokes a hole in your boat when you have none.

Simply stop making claims you aren't prepared to back up with objective evidence or be ready to get butthurt when I don't just take your word for it.
 
Got any evidence to support this claim? Can any of this be quantified? For example, how do we know precisely how much power your woofer can handle before failing before and after you perform the proper rituals? Exactly what method must be used for "break in" and for how long?

Please cite where I said this. Mostly I'm just asking for evidence to support any of these rather wild claims about "break in" in regards to loudspeakers.

So in your line of work, do those products only work to spec after some initial half-duty operation or do they work as soon as they're installed and then gradually atrophy until they are no longer fit for use? Do you have any data that you must measure to see if things are still performing as they should or are parts replaced/repaired only after they obviously/visibly fail or show stress?



I'm not trying to argue with you either. You just left out way too many details for any sort of accurate guess. Again, knowing nothing else I can safely say if you take your current equipment right now and change your vehicle into a wall build you could lose or you could gain huge. Even if we assume everything optimized pre and post wall this still may vary depending on the vehicle; for example CRX is so good acoustically for no-wall you might even lose on the meter trying to wall, if you have a huge cargo van you almost couldn't help but gain simply for reducing the cabin area you need to pressurize. The more specifics you added the closer we could collectively hazard a guess as to how much you would stand to gain.


Share please. Did you chastise him telling him you didn't ask about that and that TS parameters don't matter?
Either way, I'm certainly not arguing that these changes happen and I've already offered to share measured TS parameters I have measured myself which are likely consistent with DD's claim.
My points are that these changes will happen much more quickly than "break in" proponents would have us believe and will almost certainly be inaudible. I have yet to see anybody in the lanes put in fresh subs and then consistently gain throughout the season while changing nothing else solely do to softparts stretching out.
I also do not believe for a minute that there is some proper method to initially soften up a spider that will make it perform any different than any other. Again, you can confirm this by getting a very stiff spider and just working it in your hands and feel it soften up a bit within a few minutes. Now consider how many times you can flex it in a minute vs 25 times per second letting your amp do the work once installed.



Current top 4 on the Termlab leaderboard are all the same team out of Russia running Deaf Bonce, Sundown and Crossfire subs. I'm sure once Dante "breaks in" those DDs a little more he'll gain up a full deeb though and blow those guys out of the water.

Guys using DD subs doing well in the lanes is not evidence or data to support break in lore. Do Sundown, DB, or Crossfire subs require "break in"? Do you really imagine the materials they use are all that different than anything else on the market in that tier?

Still waiting on some evidence to support some process other than normal use is required, that the most dramatic changes won't happen within minutes, and that any of this will be audible.


It's not about "precisely knowing how much power". As I have said before, there is no measurement, no quantifiable data, simply recommendations that certain builders put out. Combine that with some good old fashioned logic and that's all I need. Resin doesn't like to bend much. But if you bend it slowly and gradually you can form small cracks in the material and essentially soften the resin to make it "flexible". It's a pretty simple concept.

The main comparison I can give you from my line of work is the high-pressure seals inside the intensifier pump. They are small, maybe 1.25 inch OD 1.125 inch ID 1/8th inch thick "seals" made of delrin. There are 4 in total, 2 are angled one side for a compression fit once installed, one has a closed face on both sides and an o-ring sealing the OD, and the last has a closed face on one side and an open face on the other with an o-ring sealing the OD. The O-rings are a blend of resin, Teflon, and Buna-n.

This particular arrangement of seals has a "wear in" procedure for proper sealing and longevity. We run our intensifier pump at 2 different pressures, low pressure which is 15,000 PSI and high pressure which is 62,000 PSI measured at a dead head. Open head pressures (aka water jet is active and cutting) are roughly 13,000 PSI for low pressure and 58,000 PSI for high pressure. The proper procedure is to bring the pump online and build dead-head pressure to the low setting and let it remain there for at least 60 seconds. Then you transition to low pressure cutting using a program that runs 100 inches of cut at 15 inches per minute. Following that program, high pressure dead head is selected for another 60 seconds. Once that is complete wear in is complete. Seal life is rated between 200 and 250 hours of operation at high pressure stroke rate. Wear in has been skipped accidentally on a few occasions and seal life on those was below 100 hours, the highest life I have seen from a set of seals has been 340 hours, I personally replaced that set of seals and made sure all surfaces were as clean is a could make them and I doubled the low pressure wear in procedure.

You can measure how well the seal assemblies are actually sealing by checking the stroke rate of both left and right side of the pump. An average stroke rate on a fresh rebuild is 34-37 strokes per minute, first startup after a seal job usually sits at 46 SPM and as the seals wear in the stroke rate drops down to the 34-37 range. maximum stroke rate before warnings start going off is 45 SPM and the machine will shut down if SPM exceeds 51 on either side of the pressure head.

Matt
 
I remember dad talking about break in on the pumps at Mobil Oil all the time. He and others would do the break in properly so the seals, parts and what not would last thousands of hours. Those who didn't didn't last very long maybe a couple thousand hours vs the 10-15 thousand hours when they were properly broke in.

I always break in my subwoofer gradually I would rather not take the chance considering how much they cost these days.
 
Like I still don't like we're actually disagreeing. You're just trying to poke a hole in everything for any reason, I feel like. Even though some of this stuff I said seems to match some of the stuff you said.
I'm fairly certain he likes to play devil's' advocate to almost everything just for the sake of starting an argument.
But challenging other people's responses is not the problem.
One could even say it's a necessary evil that helps get the right info out to who needs it
They way it's done is a whole other thing
It is possible to have a conversation with someone without attempting to humiliate or demean them.
There is a very fine line between this and going full blown Slo Ride
The problem is when you do it too much people stop paying attention to what your saying
 
there is no measurement, no quantifiable data
So we cannot measure the difference but we can hear it? It seems strange that if humans only start to notice a change in sound intensity at 1.0dB we can't measure changes from this break-in phenomenon with equipment like Termlab which is much more sensitive.

I use a double diaphragm pump for my business and it required no wear-in or warm-up procedure. A loudspeaker is a pump of sorts, but not all pumps are created equal, though if we're going to say industrial pumps are relevant I'd suggest double diaphragm style is much more similar to a loudspeaker than anything that'll generate the sort of pressure you're working with.


I'm fairly certain he likes to play devil's' advocate to almost everything just for the sake of starting an argument.

I'm trying to shed light on an urban legend here. You will notice that nobody has presented any quantifiable evidence to support any of this speaker break-in mythos. It should be obvious by now that the truth of the matter is far from what marketing departments would have us believe and IMO the motives behind manufacturers and retailers perpetuating this idea (with zero data to back it up) must be suspect.
 
So we cannot measure the difference but we can hear it? It seems strange that if humans only start to notice a change in sound intensity at 1.0dB we can't measure changes from this break-in phenomenon with equipment like Termlab which is much more sensitive.

I use a double diaphragm pump for my business and it required no wear-in or warm-up procedure. A loudspeaker is a pump of sorts, but not all pumps are created equal, though if we're going to say industrial pumps are relevant I'd suggest double diaphragm style is much more similar to a loudspeaker than anything that'll generate the sort of pressure you're working with.




I'm trying to shed light on an urban legend here. You will notice that nobody has presented any quantifiable evidence to support any of this speaker break-in mythos. It should be obvious by now that the truth of the matter is far from what marketing departments would have us believe and IMO the motives behind manufacturers and retailers perpetuating this idea (with zero data to back it up) must be suspect.


Once again I'll point out the fact that I'm not saying anything gets louder. The difference in mechanical compliance could surely be measured, but a termlab isn't the equipment to do that.

And a diaphragm pump is not a loudspeaker. Diaphragms are made of a very flexible material. The Yamada diaphragm pumps we use are hilariously durable, because they are ment to be. They will literally pump ball bearings through lines if there is some kind of fluid with the bearings.
This is a yamada diaphragm folded in half:

16268764632362305960545126693964.jpg


Here is that same diaphragm after being folded in half:

1626876514064665866064621190321.jpg


Try doing that with a stiff spider and tell me how it goes.

The industrial pump I was referring to is an intensifier pump that takes standard 60 PSI city water and turns it into a 60,000 PSI stream of death and diatruction. It is relevant because it has a wear in procedure for its high pressure seals.

Matt
 
I'm fairly certain he likes to play devil's' advocate to almost everything just for the sake of starting an argument.
But challenging other people's responses is not the problem.
One could even say it's a necessary evil that helps get the right info out to who needs it
They way it's done is a whole other thing
It is possible to have a conversation with someone without attempting to humiliate or demean them.
There is a very fine line between this and going full blown Slo Ride
The problem is when you do it too much people stop paying attention to what your saying
I don't think hispls is being argumentative or even getting worked up. He has a valid point. Numbers win arguments, otherwise it's no different than the guy whose buddy hits 200db with two twelves. That and I'm sure he's sick of this topic coming up without anyone providing proof. Comparing anyone to sloride is a low blow.

@Buck 's info from dd that it applies more to 2000w+ drivers makes it even less likely that it will be tested by anyone but manufacturers simply due to cost, and i think we can agree that manufacturers have something to gain by pointing the finger at customers to avoid warranty claims.

I remember reading that Kicker solobarics hit higher scores right out of the box than after being worn in.
 
I don't think hispls is being argumentative or even getting worked up. He has a valid point. Numbers win arguments, otherwise it's no different than the guy whose buddy hits 200db with two twelves. That and I'm sure he's sick of this topic coming up without anyone providing proof. Comparing anyone to sloride is a low blow.

@Buck 's info from dd that it applies more to 2000w+ drivers makes it even less likely that it will be tested by anyone but manufacturers simply due to cost, and i think we can agree that manufacturers have something to gain by pointing the finger at customers to avoid warranty claims.

I remember reading that Kicker solobarics hit higher scores right out of the box than after being worn in.

This is the biggest issue I see. The only drivers that would actually need a break in period would be very high powered, long stroke drivers. And compared to the "normal" JL 10w3 or whatever, there are a very small portion of people running true 3000 watt capable drivers.

I'm a numbers guy myself, but this isn't a situation where I have to have numbers to justify my conclusion. Companies A through J have a break in procedure for their higher tier woofers. Could they be covering their ass just for tits? Sure, but most companies wouldn't even bother having a break in procedure unless there was a prior issue to warrant it and cut down on warranty claims.

Add in the fact that the spiders or spider packs needed to handle the true 3000w woofers are extremely stiff, and that they are made partly of resin, it's a no brainer to me personally.

Hell, on one of the 18 inch home theater subs I helped install(can't recall the brand or model, this was years ago, sorry.) you could set a 2 liter on the dustcap and the cone wouldn't move hardly at all.

I would equate a spider wearing in to something like tempering a blade after hardening. A hardened blade is very tough, but it isn't flexible. It's very easy to snap a freshly hardened blade. But after tempering, that same blade looses a bit of "toughness" but gains flexibility.

Matt
 
I don't think hispls is being argumentative or even getting worked up. He has a valid point. Numbers win arguments, otherwise it's no different than the guy whose buddy hits 200db with two twelves. That and I'm sure he's sick of this topic coming up without anyone providing proof. Comparing anyone to sloride is a low blow.

@Buck 's info from dd that it applies more to 2000w+ drivers makes it even less likely that it will be tested by anyone but manufacturers simply due to cost, and i think we can agree that manufacturers have something to gain by pointing the finger at customers to avoid warranty claims.

I remember reading that Kicker solobarics hit higher scores right out of the box than after being worn in.

I second this, I’ve seen woofers do the same. I’m sure it’s an Fs / resonance thing.
 
Activity
No one is currently typing a reply...

Similar threads

Yeah I had lived in the sticks my whole life till a few yrs ago I moved to a different city to start over. Haven't had any break ins yet but...
6
917
Looking to buy and install an LOC. I got the basic functionality of it but not sure what I need. My set up is a factory Impala stock radio, 4...
0
906
Additinally, no need to reference "max" anything as those specs are useless. Most of know how to look at specs for a given speaker, amp, HU, etc...
2
117
If they had an orange basket I would have to buy them.... Hmmmm Sell my 4 Xs and get 6 of those and do no-wall again with one more 4500..... :unsure:
4
209
That’s the little single 6.5 inch enclosure. The Savard did just as well as the RDS. These subs do well in ported or 6th orders but not as well...
12
447

About this thread

RBarlow

CarAudio.com Recruit
Thread starter
RBarlow
Joined
Location
Pennsylvania
Start date
Participants
Who Replied
Replies
166
Views
13,293
Last reply date
Last reply from
Buck
1000006564.jpg

Mr FaceCaser

    Mar 28, 2024
  • 0
  • 0
1000006569.jpg

Mr FaceCaser

    Mar 28, 2024
  • 0
  • 0

Latest topics

Top