Break in period for subs

[Buck 5,000+ posts]

Lmk if you'd ever like a CNC'd box haha. I'm close to you I assume.

Dammit, I keep forgetting it's you.

 

[mat3833 10+ year member]

Lmk if you'd ever like a CNC'd box haha. I'm close to you I assume.

Soon man, have to get this 3 way front stage finished and do some more deadening before I can put this 18 in the 6th order.

 

[Buck 5,000+ posts]

Soon man, have to get this 3 way front stage finished and do some more deadening before I can put this 18 in the 6th order.

Man, I can't wait to see how that works, or how you do it. LMK.

 

[mat3833 10+ year member]

Man, I can't wait to see how that works, or how you do it. LMK.

It's Goin to require some cutting. No way I have enough space for a 6th order in the trunk without making more room... If you run the numbers and tell me you can make it all fit in 10 cubes it might work as is, lol

 

[SlugButter]

How high can cabin gain raise when you wall off a vehicle? Is it a slight jump or does it raise significantly?

 

[mat3833 10+ year member]

How high can cabin gain raise when you wall off a vehicle? Is it a slight jump or does it raise significantly?

Well, pressuring a smaller space will net a gain. The more space you cut out the higher the gain. But you also change cabin resonance, so I'm not sure how it all works.

 

[SlugButter]

Well, pressuring a smaller space will net a gain. The more space you cut out the higher the gain. But you also change cabin resonance, so I'm not sure how it all works.

I had a diamond audio D6 10 inch, 1.2 cubes @ 30hz, in my Chevy s10 truck for years. Bangin little sub. 140.3 sealed at the dash on 700 watts. When I sold the truck I put all the same exact equipment in my Jeep Patriot and the sound was a noticeable difference. It seemed like a positive gain in SQ but a loss of loudness by ear, but I never did meter it in the Jeep to see what the difference was. Maybe just psychological.

 

[hispls 5,000+ posts]

Any other questions,

Yes, how does any of that prove that stretching the suspension is going to not happen within a few minutes of hard play either way, how does it prove that a non-defective woofer in this hypothetical situation would fail any more or less quickly in the first minutes of use or a year later? If you are suggesting that a user is depending on low compliance to prevent over-excursion below tuning that the suspension will be worse and not better at controlling the cone over time. Can you show me some measured data to quantify whether any of this is likely to be audible and after what period of "break in"?
Lastly when it comes to which subs require some special procedure and which do not, do you have some examples of each?

If multiple companies that build subwoofers recommend a break in, why in the Alabama cousin-******* ******** would you say it's not a thing.

There's lots of snake oil being sold in this business. Why not post up some real evidence as proof; appeal to authority is not an argument. Surely if we can hear this difference we can measure and quantify it, right? I'm certainly willing to consider your evidence.

Hearing sounds is evidence.

So why would anybody bother with Termlab? We can just throw SPL and RTA measurements out the window and just start going by what you think something sounded like a couple months ago and call it good. No sense complicating this thing asking for some sort of quantifiable measurements.

 

[hispls 5,000+ posts]

When I sold the truck I put all the same exact equipment in my Jeep Patriot and the sound was a noticeable difference.

Must be from "breaking in" and certainly not from putting it in a completely different vehicle. There is no other explanation.

 

[hispls 5,000+ posts]

How high can cabin gain raise when you wall off a vehicle?

This is a silly question. Way too many variables can and will change. If you had a way below optimum install before vs. a perfectly optimized wall you could probably gain 20dB, if you had a perfectly optimized install and half arse the wall you could lose. No part of that question, as it is written, really allows apples to apples comparison and leaves too many variables to guessing.

 

[mat3833 10+ year member]

Yes, how does any of that prove that stretching the suspension is going to not happen within a few minutes of hard play either way, how does it prove that a non-defective woofer in this hypothetical situation would fail any more or less quickly in the first minutes of use or a year later? If you are suggesting that a user is depending on low compliance to prevent over-excursion below tuning that the suspension will be worse and not better at controlling the cone over time. Can you show me some measured data to quantify whether any of this is likely to be audible and after what period of "break in"?
Lastly when it comes to which subs require some special procedure and which do not, do you have some examples of each?


There's lots of snake oil being sold in this business. Why not post up some real evidence as proof; appeal to authority is not an argument. Surely if we can hear this difference we can measure and quantify it, right? I'm certainly willing to consider your evidence.

So why would anybody bother with Termlab? We can just throw SPL and RTA measurements out the window and just start going by what you think something sounded like a couple months ago and call it good. No sense complicating this thing asking for some sort of quantifiable measurements.

My argument is solely on damaging spiders, not T/S shift or any audible differences. Breaking in a woofer is the act of giving it some time on lower power before you give it a "few minutes" of hard play.

There is no info on spider stretch. Nobody does testing. I have no interest in testing something that potentially affects such a small number of woofers. You do you, I'll do me. But just because you think you know all and are right doesn't mean you should come into any thread and say you are God-king and everyone should bow at your feet.

I don't know **** about alot of ****, but in my line of work mechanical compliance and failures resulting from improper care is the most common problem I deal with. Spiders are nothing but a mechanical means to control an electrically driven coil.

Matt

 

[SlugButter]

This is a silly question. Way too many variables can and will change. If you had a way below optimum install before vs. a perfectly optimized wall you could probably gain 20dB, if you had a perfectly optimized install and half arse the wall you could lose. No part of that question, as it is written, really allows apples to apples comparison and leaves too many variables to guessing.

Wrong. Asking it twice would be a “silly question”. Asking it once is just wanting to know more. No need for the hostility. I’m not even arguing with you.

 

[Slo_Ride 5,000+ posts]

Not quite how that works man. Oil has a viscosity rating. That rating is for a certain range of Temps. I'm in central Florida, so it's not as extreme, but my oil pressure at idle "cold" is 55-60 psi. Up to temp my idle oil pressure is 15-20 psi. I have a 4cyl turbo, so I stay out of the throttle as much as possible until I see my idle oil pressure down to at least 25psi, or at a 50mph cruise oil pressure at about 55psi.

Oil pressure doesn't equal oil flow. Oil pressure is actually the resistance of the oil flowing.

Matt

That's not quite how that works bro. That's why there are two number on a bottle of oil such as 10w30. 10 being the cold viscosity rating and 30 being the warm. Waiting for your car to warm up is dumb but it's not going to hurt anything. Starting your car and driving it immediately isn't going to hurt anything either, it's an old wives tale.

 

[Buck 5,000+ posts]

I got an official response from my guy at DD. He gives me t/s data on DD stuff, I get a more direct line of contact than you would just being a customer, I would say. So I genuinely asked his opinion about breaking in their woofers, how important it was, and I asked him to very honest with me. He was. He really stated that he thought breaking in subs was important.

I have to paraphrase here, I tried to get a direct quote for you guys. Maybe I will soon.

What I was told was something like this (this is paraphrased, not a direct quote):

"Many spiders have resin in them. Subs will drop Fs and improves motor force/Bl (t/s). Bl increases due to softer suspension.

You really have to wang to break them in properly."


He says it's vital, at least from a competition standpoint. I'm keeping this as simple as possible and trying not to say anything that I wasn't told.


One of the biggest things that I picked up on was this: it's largely power-level dependent. A 500w sub maybe doesn't really need a break in time. It's 500w, there's probably nothing that's going to damage a sub that low powered. When you have something like a 2000w, 3000w+ woofer, then that's when break in becomes even more important. The amount of power that is in a 4" coiled woofer, for example, requires a massively stiff spider, relative to that 500w woofer (don't forget about added spider stress of larger and larger Mms's as power handling increases). It seems that how rapidly a spider expands or stretches from it's brand new shape can permanently change or damage or arrange the resin in the spider. So it seems a controlled break in is recommended to loosen the spider and the resin in the spider, that way the resin structure in the spider isn't over-extended and the intergrity of the resin isn't compromised. Spider problems could easily lead to linearity problems, so maybe think about it from that perspective.


I'm trying to get you guys and myself genuine answers. I'm not swinging my wiener around for the fun of it. I'm trying to find what the truth is, and it seems there's multiple truths with breaking in woofers.

That's why I really say it's system by system dependent.

I also add that the woofer will cool the coil better when it's broken in; stiff spider means coil doesn't move much, air doesn't circulate quite as well through the motor venting and what not.

Anyways, that's all I have for now.

 

[Buck 5,000+ posts]

And if you want to argue against Digital Designs, keep in mind that they are one of the best and loudest SPL companies in the world, they held the world record for SPL for years with Alan Dante, IIRC. 182-183.xx dB, iirc. It got broken a few years ago, I think. I don't remember by who, if anyone knows, post that up.