Winisd help?

[Papermaker85 5,000+ posts]

Thank you in advance for taking the time to help me in this learning process... Winisd is something I've been trying to learn with a vengeance and I believe/hope that I'm almost there...I've finally got it running!.. I've learned to enter parameters into Winisd in a certain order... it actually works now!.. I can use or enter a new or pre-existing driver and create a project and save it... of course I have to learn to use the menus, features, graphs and everything else... H:*******wever when I tried a Sundown X-12 d2, all was well until I tried to run in order to to play with the box and tuning... it appears to pause for about 3 seconds before I get a message that Winisd is no longer working and Windows will now close the program and notify me if a fix is available!.. am I using the correct version for my Windows 7 software?.. it appears to be Winisd-07x... It is the only version that I could get and have it close and run so far... is there another version available?.. I am trying to learn this... and for it to work briefly then stop with this driver is maddening to say the least... it runs OK with drivers from it's database and the drivers I've entered so far except the Sundown!.. is this a software issue relating to my versions compatibility with Windows 7?.. or is the Sundown just so awesome that it does not compute... LOL!

before you master WINISD you have some basic driver parameters and acoustics you need to understand to lead you to using the correct alignment..

 

[shredder1 10+ year member]

Maybe I did not figure the length correctly...IDK... I saw the actual design BEFORE I chose it and it said tuned to 30hz ... he said a 6 ft3 net was optimal but space limitations were a factor 5 ft3 net was the final outcome ... so I probably figured it wrong at a glance as far as length goes as I was looking at these plans... http://i.imgur.com/ULRvo3C.jpg ... Did I screw the port length up?.. That's what got built... if I screwed up estimating the length , what do you come up with?.. user error is the #1 cause of failure and I'll admit I don't know it all... but I am trying to learn... BTW... I did tell him that I have around 2000 Wmrs available as next year I'll be slaving those CAB's at 2 ohm mono... I hope that 3200 Wmrs as the specs claim will overcome box rise...

 

[shredder1 10+ year member]

before you master WINISD you have some basic driver parameters and acoustics you need to understand to lead you to using the correct alignment..

Sounds like something I'll love to hear... I'm ALL ears!

 

[shredder1 10+ year member]

hit print screen shot on the keyboard or prnt scrn and paste onto this website then copy and paste the website using "ctrl + V" then use the forum's insert image tool (the one next to the film strip, smiley faces etc... paste that site link in and you can post images like that. https://snag.gy/

for example

I'm trying here guys... give me just a minute to figure this ^^^ out!... lol!

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

Sounds like something I'll love to hear... I'm ALL ears!

here's the source material. Have fun, it took me awhile to finish it.

https://www.scribd.com/doc/79732392/Loudspeaker-Design-Cookbook-Seventh-Edition-Vance-Dickason

 

[shredder1 10+ year member]

... Let's try... this is an irrelevant image BTW... I hope this works!

 

[Papermaker85 5,000+ posts]

Sounds like something I'll love to hear... I'm ALL ears!

if you have a woofer you can test it out plot frequency response gras/ excursion/actual input power and how the various parameters contribute to your measurements.

For example understanding how QMS and CMS as well as KMS curves(the stiffness over stroke) affect frequency response both above and below tuning and how the driver mechanically unloads when you change tuning port area and box size.

take for example these two drivers

DUAL 1 | DUAL 2

FS 32.8 Hz

RE 0.9|1.8

QMS 6.61

QES 0.30

QTS 0.29

MMS 326g

CMS 0.718

SD 810cm^2

VAS 66.1 l

SPL 90.8dB

BL 20.1 N/A | 28.4N/A

XMAX 34mm (One Way)

RMS 2500W

DC sounds XL Sd

791.00 cm²

Vas 66.02 liters

Cms 0.07 mm/N

Fs 34.3

BL BL 22.73 N/A

Re 3.98 Ohm

Le 5.2mH

Qms 16.55

Qes 0.516

Qts 0.5

Xmax 26 mm

89.0 dB

i can't get the correct format!!

 

[shredder1 10+ year member]

Whoa!... thank you... this IS cool.//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif

 

[shredder1 10+ year member]

I do have a basic understanding of Acoustics... I've read parts of the Vance Dickinson bible before.. it really is a challenge... and I thought Winisd was hard!.. Nobody I've met yet will claim to know it all as vehicles are less than Ideal... but I do know cabin gain can be our friend!.. car audio has that going for it at least... I WILL labor thru this material AGAIN as I've read most of it before... I'll bet it makes more sense now as I did read it when I was quite a bit younger... LOL!.. Speaker Design?... why not.. it'll at least occupy me for awhile and give you guys a break from my incessant questions... this is a BIG subject after all!.. LOL!.. Should I reenter the parameters in Winisd more carefully AGAIN to see what I come up with as far as that box in question goes?.. I'm on the right track... right?

 

[Papermaker85 5,000+ posts]

For the mechanical aspect of the drivers we will assume the the parameter shifts are linear throughout stroke and that all aspects are linear ideally for sake of understand simplicity..

Electro/mechanical aspects/parameters of loudspeakers.

QMS- This is how the drivers suspension and moving parts damp the oscillations of the speakers moving mass.

 

A lower number means its more resistant to oscillation. IE it wants to stop the oscillations faster/earlier. The parameters that affect this primarily are CMS and MMS and RMS.

 

This leads to how controlled the mechanical aspect of the driver is. very low QMS designs can use larger alignments to take advantage of the huge transfer function and efficiency benefits of not only larger boxes but larger ports.

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CMS- This is a measure of the stiffness of the suspension(spider/surround). The lower the number the less the diaphragm will more for a given amount of Force applied. realistically You will see figures between .15mm/N for very soft suspensions to as low as .02 for pur SPL drivers. note that drivers like dd 9515s SPL builds use very light moving parts in combination to get very low QMS to use very large enclosures and get HUGE transfer function gains.

 

In this case they are nearly identical in CMS and

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MMS- is the moving mass of the driver. its the weight of the parts. IE the mass of the the moving parts of the driver.. pretty simple. The higher the harder it is to move and harder it is to stop moving.

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RMS- is The mechanical resistance/impedance of the suspension. think of it as ohm of a electrical circuit. its a resistance to movement. the suspensions topology and material plays a huge role in this. The higher the RMS the hgiher the resistance. Higher numbers mean higher LOSSES.

so lower numbers mean a less losses and mean less damping/control for a given stiffness.

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QTS- this is the total damping of the driver which accounts for QMS and QES.. The lower the number the more damped the driver is as a unit.. the lower the number The more powerful the resonation but the narrower the bandwidth of the resonation.

 

for example if you model these two drivers up you will see the FI peaks harder but the peak is much more narrow for a given box size you will also notice that the low end frequency extension and output is much more limited. Think of a higher Q as a inductor and a low Q as a capacitor of sorts

 

The capacitor is high energy high discharge in nature but limits low frequency from the natural properties of the frequency/wavelength.

 

While the higher Q speakers are more like a coil with a AC inductance on it. it resistive to higher frequency and has and inductive nature so it suffers from high frequency extension from the extremely fast polarity changes but is IDEAL for lower frequency and lower polarity changes offering a more natural movement and more efficient reproduction of the lower frequency production.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

FS- The is the resonance frequency of the driver. In essence its the natural frequency in which all hte aspects of the driver combine to make the signal input and signal output close as possible to mimic the natural reproduction of that frequencies oscillations.

drivers play more accurately as the driver nears its FS. the further from FS the less ideal the oscillation is and the more losses you have trying to reproduce the oscillations!

================================================================

Vas- is the compliance of the drive. its basically the acoustic variation of the mass ove surface area of hte loudspeaker. kinda like hte density of the driver in respect to the area of that or air. IE the more compressed the air is in a given airspace the lower the "vas" as compared to the loudspeaker suspension CMS and surface(SD) area as well as MMS.

 

 

[Papermaker85 5,000+ posts]

give me 5 to proofread. lol

 

[Papermaker85 5,000+ posts]

now for the acoustic side and how it affects the driver. lol. i'm tired though..

 

[shredder1 10+ year member]

Wow... I'm tryin' to keep up here... cut me some slack please... I DID try the X-12 Sundown again and it said Division by zero this time... probably my fault I'm sure but maybe something I'm doing wrong will jump out at you... https://snag.gy/48thqX.jpg ... https://snag.gy/ixBjMS.jpg ... I'm gonna keep trying tonight to h(=ll with my headache... This program is VERY picky is it not... I guess it MIGHT/WILL work eventually once the monkey on THIS keyboard learns.//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/redface.gif.62fdbfe1a101588a808c4cff71bcb942.gif

 

[Papermaker85 5,000+ posts]

Wow... I'm tryin' to keep up here... cut me some slack please... I DID try the X-12 Sundown again and it said Division by zero this time... probably my fault I'm sure but maybe something I'm doing wrong will jump out at you... https://snag.gy/48thqX.jpg ... https://snag.gy/ixBjMS.jpg ... I'm gonna keep trying tonight to h(=ll with my headache... This program is VERY picky is it not... I guess it MIGHT/WILL work eventually once the monkey on THIS keyboard learns.//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/redface.gif.62fdbfe1a101588a808c4cff71bcb942.gif

did you put QTS in the QES box accidently?

 

[shredder1 10+ year member]

did you put QTS in the QES box accidently?

No... since Mms and Qts were given... I assumed that it was auto-calculated... at least that is how I read the tutorial... http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/diy-subwoofers-general-discussion/6330-winisd-pro-tutorial-download-detailed-guide-how-use-winisd-pro.html ... at this point I have about 7 or 8 windows open and my computer is locking up... (I just had to close this tab and reopen it!)... I'm walking away to keep my sanity... Maybe later tonight!