What was the civil war fought over?

[k_schutte 10+ year member]

Slavery gets shit done...

 

[AlterEgo99 5,000+ posts]

It's 2010 - who fucking cares!? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wow.gif.23d729408e9177caa2a0ed6a2ba6588e.gif

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

Im not reading this thread but im posting what i know.
The war was fought over the rights of the southern states vs the government. Lincoln made it about slavery when the south was lobbying for englands help because England needed the souths products. Lincoln knew if he made the war about slavery, then England would technically be fighting for slavery which would keep them out of it which is exactly what happened. The fact of the matter was that barely anyone in the south owned slaves because they couldnt afford it. It is also a popular idea that Lincoln abolished slavery which was also wrong. The Emancipation Proclomation freed slaves in states controlled by the Union. The South was its own entity and didnt listen to the laws of the Union for that time so the EP didnt apply to them. As the Union started taking states back throughout the war, the slaves were freed in those states but the over-all consensus that Lincoln freed the slaves is wrong because he did not. The Amendment ( cant remember which number) freed all slaves.

The confederate states were seceded from the union, considered themselves sovereign, and were at war to prove it. Wide would it be a popular concensus that they complied with the E.P. until they were forced to?

The north had plenty of slaves the E.P. did free right away, and the E.P. was the first legislation that declared slavery illegal (and immoral), hence Lincoln "freed that slaves".

 

[hispls 5,000+ posts]

 

[AlterEgo99 5,000+ posts]

Repeat as required...

It's 2010, who da fuck cares? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/fyi.gif.9f1f679348da7204ce960cfc74bca8e0.gif

 

[ciaonzo 5,000+ posts]

 

[Proximity 10+ year member]

If motive is irrelevant, why did you ask about it?

I didn't. And when I said motive I meant the motive for keeping slavery, I'm under the impression you do as well.

Im not reading this thread but im posting what i know.
The war was fought over the rights of the southern states vs the government. Lincoln made it about slavery when the south was lobbying for englands help because England needed the souths products. Lincoln knew if he made the war about slavery, then England would technically be fighting for slavery which would keep them out of it which is exactly what happened. The fact of the matter was that barely anyone in the south owned slaves because they couldnt afford it. It is also a popular idea that Lincoln abolished slavery which was also wrong. The Emancipation Proclomation freed slaves in states controlled by the Union. The South was its own entity and didnt listen to the laws of the Union for that time so the EP didnt apply to them. As the Union started taking states back throughout the war, the slaves were freed in those states but the over-all consensus that Lincoln freed the slaves is wrong because he did not. The Amendment ( cant remember which number) freed all slaves.

You could argue that Lincoln's reason for war wasn't about slavery (and you would be right), but the south seceded to preserve their slave owning.

That is what I meant the thread to be about, not the war specifically, but why the south seceded.

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

but the south seceded to preserve their slave owning.

If you knew half as much as you think you do, you'd be pretty smart. But, you don't.
And yes, you did ask about motive. Do I really need to make you look even stupider by quoting where you did?

 

[AlterEgo99 5,000+ posts]

Prox has been castrated ever since his boyfriend PW was perma banned...it's sad really. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/fyi.gif.9f1f679348da7204ce960cfc74bca8e0.gif

 

[Proximity 10+ year member]

Prox has been castrated ever since his boyfriend PW was perma banned...it's sad really. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/fyi.gif.9f1f679348da7204ce960cfc74bca8e0.gif

I didn't know he was.

If you knew half as much as you think you do, you'd be pretty smart. But, you don't.
And yes, you did ask about motive. Do I really need to make you look even stupider by quoting where you did?

Give me 3 legitimate reasons the South seceded that don't fall back on slavery. Legitimate means something a war would actually be started over. You can't.

And no, I did not. I never asked why the south had motive to be pro slavery, which is the answer you provided to a question unasked.

 

[LazyRider 10+ year member]

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

Give me 3 legitimate reasons the South seceded that don't fall back on slavery. Legitimate means something a war would actually be started over. You can't.

If you weren't too busy talking to listen, as always, you'd know Ive already listed 3 reasons in this thread. State versus federal control over taxation, banking, and a judicial system. Do you comprehend what state's rights versus federal rights means and all the things this impacted? Obviously not, since you think it would be tough to name just 3 things.

And no, I did not. I never asked why the south had motive to be pro slavery, which is the answer you provided to a question unasked.

I didnt say you asked why, I said you asked about it. In other words, you brought it up, and then later claim its irrelevant...

So it's completely inconsequential and coincidental that there wasn't a single confederate state that outlawed slavery?

Same old proximity, talking in mental circles to preserve your warped view of reality.

 

[Proximity 10+ year member]

Do you have any references that back up your claim about state versus federal control of banking, taxation and the judicial system? I find the first two hard to believe as there was no nationalization of banks until after the civil war and there was no federal income tax until the 1920s. Tariffs were at historic lows before the civil war so that's not an issue.

Even if these happened to be issues the south had with the north, do you deny these paled in comparison to the issue of slavery? Do you think if slavery had never existed, long been abolished or was at no risk of being removed that the south would have seceded?

I brought up the fact that the confederacy all happened to be slave owning states which has nothing to do with motive for slave owning. You then went into why southern states were slave owning and why they defend it (ie: the motive). Do you see the difference?

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

Do you have any references that back up your claim about state versus federal control of banking, taxation and the judicial system? I find the first two hard to believe as there was no nationalization of banks until after the civil war and there was no federal income tax until the 1920s. Tariffs were at historic lows before the civil war so that's not an issue.
Even if these happened to be issues the south had with the north, do you deny these paled in comparison to the issue of slavery? Do you think if slavery had never existed, long been abolished or was at no risk of being removed that the south would have seceded?

I brought up the fact that the confederacy all happened to be slave owning states which has nothing to do with motive for slave owning. You then went into why southern states were slave owning and why they defend it (ie: the motive). Do you see the difference?

So you dont realize the confederate states seceded long before the emancipation proclamation even declared slavery illegal? You didn't pay much attention in history class, did you?

 

[Proximity 10+ year member]

So you dont realize the confederate states seceded long before the emancipation proclamation even declared slavery illegal? You didn't pay much attention in history class, did you?

The South's secession had nothing to do the the EP, obviously. They seceded because they envisioned the imminent death of slavery with Lincoln's election. The Declaration of Secession really says all the needs to be said. You don't make my word for it, listen to those who actually made the secession happen.

South Carolina statement of secession: "We affirm that these ends for which this Government was instituted have been defeated, and the Government itself has been made destructive of them by the action of the non-slaveholding States. Those States have assume the right of deciding upon the propriety of our domestic institutions; and have denied the rights of property established in fifteen of the States and recognized by the Constitution; they have denounced as sinful the institution of slavery; they have permitted open establishment among them of societies, whose avowed object is to disturb the peace and to eloign the property of the citizens of other States. They have encouraged and assisted thousands of our slaves to leave their homes; and those who remain, have been incited by emissaries, books and pictures to servile insurrection."

Tip: "Property" means slaves.

Confederate VP: "The new constitution has put at rest, forever, all the agitating questions relating to our peculiar institution African slavery as it exists amongst us the proper status of the negro in our form of civilization. This was the immediate cause of the late rupture and present revolution. Jefferson in his forecast, had anticipated this, as the "rock upon which the old Union would split." He was right. What was conjecture with him, is now a realized fact."

It's impossible to argue that by far, the main cause of the south secession was to preserve their slave owning. Where there other minor issues? Yes. But in my opinion they are coincidental disagreements that had nothing to do with the secession.