Setting time alignment for sub

[Sguirrelfeather]

I know the basics....measure, plug the numbers in, listen to pink noise to fine tune. My first question is on the sub. I have a rear facing sub, so do I measure to the face of the sub, or do I include the distance from the sub to the "reflective" surface?

@Jeffdachef You had said you would help once I got my mid-bass installed. I'm still working on the pods (lot going on), but in the meantime I figured I would read your tutorial on alignment you had written a while back....but now I can't find it! Any chance you have the link handy?

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[LosIsATool 5,000+ posts]

You don't delay the sub

It's the farthest away. You delay all the others to the sub.

You really don't have to do anything with it. Blend it into the midbass and it will image up front.

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

[quote name='LosIsATool']You don't delay the sub
It's the farthest away. You delay all the others to the sub.
You really don't have to do anything with it. Blend it into the midbass and it will image up front.[/QUOTE]

depends on the acoustics of the car and the sub loading. Some will actually be a few milliseconds off from the song especially for edm, rock or metal when the kick drum and bass notes are completely off tempo. Time alignment made a huge effect on this with my buddy's setup and fixed the issue perfectly.

@Sguirrelfeather i normally measure to the port, enter the value in and then fine tune with ears. I use studio monitor head phones on my phone playing the same song as the one i'm using to tune the bass time alignment as a source reference.

 

[Sguirrelfeather]

depends on the acoustics of the car and the sub loading. Some will actually be a few milliseconds off from the song especially for edm, rock or metal when the kick drum and bass notes are completely off tempo. Time alignment made a huge effect on this with my buddy's setup and fixed the issue perfectly.

There is DEFINITELY a huge delay with my sub with it being so far away. I could easily tell it was off with most of the music I play. Hell, to the port it's 115" from my headrest vs 42" for the driver's door. I understand the concept of delaying everything else to the sub, but with my HU it has the distance for the sub, so I imagine it IS delaying to the sub for me. I've only set the preliminary distances and have done a little tweaking, but it still needs fine tuning. However, the difference with just a basic TA is freaking night and day!! So grateful you guys recommended upgrading my HU! Now to just find that tutorial so I can really get into the nitty gritty.

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

There is DEFINITELY a huge delay with my sub with it being so far away. I could easily tell it was off with most of the music I play. Hell, to the port it's 115" from my headrest vs 42" for the driver's door. I understand the concept of delaying everything else to the sub, but with my HU it has the distance for the sub, so I imagine it IS delaying to the sub for me. I've only set the preliminary distances and have done a little tweaking, but it still needs fine tuning. However, the difference with just a basic TA is freaking night and day!! So grateful you guys recommended upgrading my HU! Now to just find that tutorial so I can really get into the nitty gritty.

I cant find it so just let me know a basic rundown of your setup right now and how its all wired up and current crossover points and what it currently sounds like, what its lacking, what annoys you etc..

 

[Sguirrelfeather]

For now, I don't think you can help with much because I still don't have it set to network mode. I'm almost done with the door pods for my 8" mid-bass and 5.25" mids. But, ya never know, so....

3/4" tweeter in the door wing panel (right by A pillar), 5.25" mids in the door (JBL GTO-509c) using the included passive crossover. 15" American Bass XFL in a T-line all the way in the back. Pioneer AVH-X490BS HU.

Crossover points are set to 80Hz for the sub, 100Hz for the doors. Both are 24dB slope. I tried going down to 80 for the doors, but those little 5.25 just don't like it. Tried going up to 100 for the sub and I don't like how it sounds. Kinda tinny. Main thing I'm having to work on it getting the highs to sound crisp, without being too bright, if that makes sense. I know my mid-bass is lacking. Can only do so much until I get the 8's installed, I do wonder, though, why the HU attenuated the speakers when I put in the distances. It automatically did it. I know it sounds like the right side is too quiet, so going to play with that a bit.

I think front stage is a little off center, so need to try to balance that. And I know the sub still sounds like it's coming from the rear instead of up front. Not quite sure why.

 

[LosIsATool 5,000+ posts]

For now, I don't think you can help with much because I still don't have it set to network mode. I'm almost done with the door pods for my 8" mid-bass and 5.25" mids. But, ya never know, so....
3/4" tweeter in the door wing panel (right by A pillar), 5.25" mids in the door (JBL GTO-509c) using the included passive crossover. 15" American Bass XFL in a T-line all the way in the back. Pioneer AVH-X490BS HU.

Crossover points are set to 80Hz for the sub, 100Hz for the doors. Both are 24dB slope. I tried going down to 80 for the doors, but those little 5.25 just don't like it. Tried going up to 100 for the sub and I don't like how it sounds. Kinda tinny. Main thing I'm having to work on it getting the highs to sound crisp, without being too bright, if that makes sense. I know my mid-bass is lacking. Can only do so much until I get the 8's installed, I do wonder, though, why the HU attenuated the speakers when I put in the distances. It automatically did it. I know it sounds like the right side is too quiet, so going to play with that a bit.

I think front stage is a little off center, so need to try to balance that. And I know the sub still sounds like it's coming from the rear instead of up front. Not quite sure why.

Delay won't get you up front bass when you turn the volume up. Past about 120db you will never get pinpoint upfront bass. If it's not blended into the mid bass the upper harmonics won't anchor it up front.

If that's your goal you went the wrong direction.

 

[Sguirrelfeather]

Once I'm done with the pods, I'll have a three way setup in front with the 8's, and the HU will be in networked mode, so I should be able to get a decent blending between sub/bass/mid-bass. I know there's not a lot of difference I can make until I get the stuff setup properly with the 8's, but every bit counts I guess. Of course, now I'm in the market for new mids....was playing with settings and somehow I screwed up. I turned the high pass filter off for the fronts and didn't realize it, so they got the full spectrum. Low bass blew the left front REAL fast! lol At least it gives me an opportunity to upgrade! //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif