Making car doors more like speaker enclosures

I think the forum's backlash against the OP has less to do with his request to see data as much as it does with his delivery. Most newcomers to the forum aren't interested in the technical aspects of why a product or process may or may not be useful, so the default for many people is "yes, that's a good idea" or "no, that's a terrible idea". The OP claims to be an EE, but is unable to interpolate (or even reasonably extrapolate) results? It doesn't help he insists upon profiling and marginalizing the people who are attempting to point him in the right "ish" direction as "ego driven males." Are their responsive exhaustive? No, but you're going to be hard pressed to find someone willing to put forth the time and effort to parse the information already out there.

I attempted to initiate a pedagogical series of thought experiments with the OP in another thread; he wanted nothing to do with it. He refuses to attempt due diligence in regards to the topics in which he is interested and instead wants to be spoon fed posts which have been tailored to his liking. If the OP knows as much about EE and Physics as he purports, this forum is going to be lacking in providing the OP with the information and knowledge he is seeking. Fortunately, there is data that is easily accessible which will help him start to understand the fundamental electromagnetic and physical interactions found in car audio applications.

I would be willing to bet the OP would have gotten considerably less insults if he had not began touting his pe-degree (sorry couldn't help making that pun) and dismissing several people's posts. Those posts should have served as a rabbit hole in which to dive, but instead he uses the opportunity to mount his soap box.

To the OP: I suggest DIYMA's forum as a starting place; on occasion that forum can be slightly better about providing measurements and data. I emphasize starting because depending on how deep you want to delve into the topic you may find yourself knees deep in some IEEE paper amazed at the knowledge and intuition people had decades ago.

If you really want to understand you're going to have to do some foot work on your own.

 
yeah a lot of crappy posts about internet decorum and stupid heroic real name using that no one cares about. If you really want help skip all the useless subterfuge and just ask questions and wait patiently for answers you think suit you.
I think MANY care about posting with their real names, and that's why they do not do it!! Terribly scared, I suppose! Of what I can't imagine, maybe that others might actually hold them to task for their postings?

John Kuthe...

 
I'm disappointed that members are lashing out in anger and insults towards someone looking for answers that go beyond opinions. There are some very respectable members contributing to this thread.
I can relate to the OP's request to see some evidence to support claims. In this industry, over the past 20 years, i've seen more marketing lies than real data. Even the best deadener out on the market lacks any ASTM testing. SDS lacks any credible testing methods. Our industry lacks real data, which is how we should have approached this thread.

To the OP: if you're looking for test results - start testing. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

The OP will not find credible test data for mobile audio products. It doesn't exist and there are no standards to follow when building and marketing mobile audio products. If you're savvy, you'll realize this when seeing the terminology used by manufacturers and you'll see past the marketing jargon.

What some of the members have provided are personal results and personal opinions - which is what forums are good for. Especially in car audio, personal experience trumps manufacturer "data". I recommend people viewing a forum look at the personal experiences as real data, then factor in the circumstances and experience of the individual. That said, there are so many factors to consider, it is very difficult dissecting an opinion to reveal relevant data. Regardless, I appreciate the personal opinions and experience shared in forums.

I spend roughly 10-20 hours per door I acoustically treat. My doors are not perfect (yet) and I still see room for improvement. I experiment and test. I measure frequency response with each configuration and I proceed with what performs best. I learn from the past and experiment in the present. I should have added more deadener to mass-load the exterior door skin. This winter that will happen.
Bingo! You got it! There exists NO standards as to auto audio excellence and LOTS of advertising hype, like with the Boom Mats I so unwittingly supported financially!!

I wish I had the time, money and experience to test out and find the best auto audio system for my desires. The all Alpine system Hi Fi Fo Fum installed for me in my old now dead 1994 Caravan was quite nice!! Hi Fi Fo Fum went out of business here in STL when it's sole proprietor owner died a few years back. Very sad, leaving a real hole in the STL auto audio scene IMHO!! :-(

Thank you for your thoughtful and polite response! :)

John Kuthe...

 
JohnKuthe I think it's time to step away from the computer. I might be new here but it seems like every **** post you make you wine about people being egotistical when all you do is talk yourself up and show how big YOUR ego is. These people on here have way more knowledge about audio systems then I think you realize and to discredit their experiences and knowledge by saying that if they don't create a graph specifically for you then their opinion has no validity is flat out rude and arrogant.
Stop coming on here and asking for help only to shoot down the help offered and then claim that person is being egotistical because they have formed an opinion based on experience.

Kyle Kidd...

...
Thank you Kyle. We all have our egos, true, and due to the lack of any real standards of excellence for auto audio, we have plethora of people here especially that claim THEIR way is the BESTway! And since it's so hard to do true A/B comparative testing or any objective testing with auto audio equipment many of us throw together our auto audio systems (as I am trying to do!) and because they sound good to US, we claim that everything we did was very excellent. While subjective testing is certainly what it all comes down to in the end, some objective critical analysis is also very good too! I'm very familiar with the loud sound of distortion often being what some think is the mark of a quality auto audio system, just because loud is good! But accurate loud reproduction of sound is what I am after. After being a Rock and Roll baby all my life (for which distortion is often part of the music!) I am now into jazz which demands good accuracy of reproduction! And I want that good and accurate and loud auto audio reproduction.

John Kuthe...

 
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The real problem is audio quality and testimonials of it are all subjective. I had a pal and we were into car audio both equally back in the day and I got in his car and the sound was very shrill to me and I noticed on his eq he had a large bump in the 3-5khz range as soon as I put it down it sounded great again. well this person had a hearing deficiency in that range cause of sinus issues as a child that led to him having tubes put in his ears.

The only real way to see if a sound treatment solution is providing a true benefit is to a/b compare before and after on a car it was done on. there's no way to see or hear that difference on the internet. sure you can get rta shots of white noise response , but that is in no way a real world scenario that would provide info on how good something will sound. I've played with multiband eq's and tried to get as flat a response as possible before and it ended up sounding ****** to me.

if you loved your all alpine setup with multiple drivers strewn throughout the vehicle that's great do that.

my ideal system is front stage drivers as low and equidistant as possible in a vehicle with ample power and a substage strong enough to keep up with it. but that's my preference. some people could care less about soundstage and would rather have 14 6x9's in a rear desk sharing power from a 300 watt amp and 15kwatts worth of batteries amps and alternators to tear up their car with a wall.

no ones going to be held to task weather using a fake or real name, you don't even gain respect from saying your using a real name, for all we know you could be lying about that. and frankly who cares if you were.

 
The real problem is audio quality and testimonials of it are all subjective. I had a pal and we were into car audio both equally back in the day and I got in his car and the sound was very shrill to me and I noticed on his eq he had a large bump in the 3-5khz range as soon as I put it down it sounded great again. well this person had a hearing deficiency in that range cause of sinus issues as a child that led to him having tubes put in his ears.
The only real way to see if a sound treatment solution is providing a true benefit is to a/b compare before and after on a car it was done on. there's no way to see or hear that difference on the internet. sure you can get rta shots of white noise response , but that is in no way a real world scenario that would provide info on how good something will sound. I've played with multiband eq's and tried to get as flat a response as possible before and it ended up sounding ****** to me.

if you loved your all alpine setup with multiple drivers strewn throughout the vehicle that's great do that.

my ideal system is front stage drivers as low and equidistant as possible in a vehicle with ample power and a substage strong enough to keep up with it. but that's my preference. some people could care less about soundstage and would rather have 14 6x9's in a rear desk sharing power from a 300 watt amp and 15kwatts worth of batteries amps and alternators to tear up their car with a wall.
I understand that, and yes I'm fantasizing about a 4 driver top of the dash system, 2 midrange and two tweeters all separately individually amped and through a sound processor before the amp input stage to tweak the heck out of all 8 drivers, 4 6x9's front doors and rear sides of vehicle and two midrange and two tweeters top of dash.

no ones going to be held to task weather using a fake or real name, you don't even gain respect from saying your using a real name, for all we know you could be lying about that. and frankly who cares if you were.


Could be faking but I'm not. Gotta have some faith in our fellow humans! I'm being the change I wish to see (Gandhi quote!)

John Kuthe...

 
I understand that, and yes I'm fantasizing about a 4 driver top of the dash system, 2 midrange and two tweeters all separately individually amped and through a sound processor before the amp input stage to tweak the heck out of all 8 drivers, 4 6x9's front doors and rear sides of vehicle and two midrange and two tweeters top of dash.

Could be faking but I'm not. Gotta have some faith in our fellow humans! I'm being the change I wish to see (Gandhi quote!)

John Kuthe...

The ideal car setup would have a single point source speaker in the sail panels and one subwoofer under the dash.

 
Could be faking but I'm not. Gotta have some faith in our fellow humans! I'm being the change I wish to see (Gandhi quote!)
John Kuthe...

The ideal car setup would have a single point source speaker in the sail panels and one subwoofer under the dash.


In the SAIL panels? What are those?

John Kuthe...

 
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