How Many of You Are SAVED?

[DBfan187 5,000+ posts]

Tempe? what you saying about Tempe boy?

wtf does Tempe has to do with the bible? Tempe is just full of frat boys and slutty chicks

silwwy wabbit

Tempe's Car Audio Bible

Tempe - http://forums.caraudio.com/vb/member.php?find=lastposter&t=67756

 

[Acidburn 5,000+ posts]

ooo sweetness

 

[Frraksurred 10+ year member]

It's your belief that determines your reality.

There is popular philosophy that teaches that reality is relative to what we believe it is and the set of rules that belief creates. It has it's own "religious" following, similar to the "New Age" movement. This type of philosophy has been around for centuries. Similar teachings were confronted by Paul in his letters to Churches in Corinth and Galatia as well as to the Romans and Hebrews. It is lofty thought that has some logical sense to it, however many disceptions ring with logical sense. The life that comes after this one has some things in common with it. Every destination has a right and a wrong way to get there. You can believe with all your heart you are heading in the right direction and still be wrong. Belief does not make reality. Our beliefs create a reality for us in the details of each day because it is what we make our decisions around, but not ultimate reality. You can say there is no ultimate reality beyond that, but I would challenge that as well.

As you say, we are all seeking truth, and always will be, but like anything you build on you have to have a good foundation. If you do not, it will all come crashing down at some point. I have also read several different religion's teachings. Yes, they all make claims, many envolve supernatural acts (like healing) and prophecy. The difference is, their creators are all dead and decayed, Jesus is not. Their system of "salvation" inevitably encompasses earning it, Christianity does not. Even their miracles pale in comparison because the power behind them connot compete. Beyond all that, no other source of prophecy bar none can claim infallibility, except the Bible. The Bible is the only source of prophecy that has never been wrong. Not once. Even Nostrodomus can only claim a 70% fulfillment and many of those are partial. I'll site an example. There are over 200 prophecies pertaining to Christ in the Old Testament, 109 are specefic prophecies that can be verified. Many of those were things outside of a person's control (for those that would claim he just studied them all and then purposefully fulfilled them) like where He was born, to whom He was born and the events surrounding His birth and death. These prophecies were written by many different people at different times; anywhere from almost 4000 years to 400 years previous to Jesus' life. Still He fulfilled them all. No other man in recorded history has done that before or since. The odds of one man fulfilling just 48 of the prophecies was calculated by Mathmatician Peter W. Stoner. It is one in a trillion, trillon, trillion, trillion, trillon, trillion, trillion, trillon, trillion, trillion, trillon, trillion, trillion. That's equal to the number of atoms in a trillion, trillion, trillon, trillion, billion universes the same size as ours ("Science Speaks," Peter W. Stoner. Chicago Moody Press 1969). He was not just a good teacher, not just a "prophet", He claimed He and God (the Father) were one and He rose three days after His death and appeared to over 500 people over the course of 40 days. The people who crucified him sought to discredit these facts from the day it happened and have never been able to. What other "religion" can say that?

When Str8up says that a person's not believing they are on a road to hell will not stop them from going there, though it sounds arogant, and wasn't delivered with much tact, is because there is a destination to this life. If Jesus was and is who He claimed (He equated Himself with God the Father several times, that's why the Jews sought to kill Him), then we should consider that He made that bold statement long before Str8up... and He did so with great sorrow.

 

[Str8Up 10+ year member]

Oh my Lord, get over yourself. Your debating skills are mediocre at best. You're predictable and you confirm my suggestions with every single one of you ignoranus comments like the one I posted above.

Get over myself? My debating skills?

The point with my statement was to show that a lot of pastors don't know what in the world that they're talking about. And when I can leave them speechless, there is something wrong. I wasn't boasting man. You sure do a lof of judging and spewing derogatory comments. And I figure the last person that can judge how much I know is a border-line atheist (Lightbeing).

And as far as someone elses post apologizing for 'Christ' because of my actions... I find that funny. For real. I'm str8 up and str8 forward. And I say what I mean. And that's how I believe all pastors and so-called christians should be.

I guess Peter needed to apologize on behalf of Yahweh when Jesus called the scribes blind men //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif

I have done nothing wrong. I just str8 forward. And the Lord has my back.

 

[Frraksurred 10+ year member]

And as far as someone elses post apologizing for 'Christ' because of my actions... I find that funny. For real. I'm str8 up and str8 forward. And I say what I mean. And that's how I believe all pastors and so-called christians should be.
I guess Peter needed to apologize on behalf of Yahweh when Jesus called the scribes blind men //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif

I have done nothing wrong. I just str8 forward. And the Lord has my back.

I have no doubts the the Lord has your back as He has mine. I am not dissillusioned about how Christ, Peter, Paul or any other bold believer has been straight forward in Jesus' name. But I have also learned that while you can address an educated semi-mature Christian who is knowingly acting outside of God's will (as Jesus did with the Scribes) with some direct language, it is highly ineffective, not exampled by Christ, His disciples or Apostles, and plainly immature to address a lost soul or anyone else for that matter, with insults, arrogance or a prideful spirit. I've got no quams with being straight, I have a great deal of issue and Biblically so, with being disrespectful in the name of Christ.

 

[LIGHTBEING 10+ year member]

Frraksurred,

Good post. The problem I find with most prophecies in the Bible is that they are ambiguous. If some prophecies fail to meet the literal meaning, Christians tend to ignore it and substitute the meaning with a figurative interpretation even when the literal meaning is warranted. Also, It's hard for someone like me who knows that the Bible has been added to and taken away from, to accept the words written in it. For some reason, Christians hold their Holy Book to a higher standard and somehow turn the other cheek. Furthermore, some prophecies that have been valid hold no value do my last statement.

Every destination has a right and a wrong way to get there. You can believe with all your heart you are heading in the right direction and still be wrong. Belief does not make reality.

Well yes ofcourse, but you are comparing apples to oranges. The physical world has evidence with substance to prove that you are headed in the wrong direction. However, Religious Faith does not. You are made to Trust "The Word" before you even know the word, according to the Bible. Blind Faith has no evidence. Essentially Faith doesn't need evidence, because after all, that's why it's called Faith.

These prophecies were written by many different people at different times; anywhere from almost 4000 years to 400 years previous to Jesus' life. Still He fulfilled them all.

Evidence to back that statement up? And from what I read Jesus has more unfulfilled then fullfilled.

The difference is, their creators are all dead and decayed, Jesus is not. Their system of "salvation" inevitably encompasses earning it, Christianity does not. Even their miracles pale in comparison because the power behind them connot compete

Well, we differ in views of Salvation. I don't believe in the Christian concept in Salvation ultimately because there was no sacrifice.

 

[LIGHTBEING 10+ year member]

Str8,

The point with my statement was to show that a lot of pastors don't know what in the world that they're talking about. And when I can leave them speechless, there is something wrong. I wasn't boasting man. You sure do a lof of judging and spewing derogatory comments. And I figure the last person that can judge how much I know is a border-line atheist (Lightbeing).

Unfortunately, the statement you made didn't show anybody anything. By our conversation I highly doubt you can leave Pastors speechless. The Pastors that I know are very well spoken and well versed in the Bible. And would easily out class your arguements.

We are debating here. You don't need to keep pointing out that I am judging you. If you leave a comment, I have the right to come to my own conclusion about it. Your acting as if I'm attacking your personal character. I don't even know you. So while you keep thinking I'm judging you, I'll simply keep responding to your comments, and call em like i see them.

Even if I was atheist, how would you come to that conclusion //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

 

[mrray13 10+ year member]

Str8,


Even if I was atheist, how would you come to that conclusion //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

eww,eww, pick me..pick me!!!!!!

by judging you???

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/peace.gif.2db28b618ed8d1964ebbe2f5021d2c39.gif

 

[DBfan187 5,000+ posts]

Actually there is a god. He's a Colts fan and loves Peyton Manning. He does hate too. He hates Jake Plummer and the rest of the Broncos.//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/frown.gif.a3531fa0534503350665a1e957861287.gif

 

[Frraksurred 10+ year member]

LIGHTBEING, First off let me say I enjoy your posts. You are respectful and you back up your comments with research and reason. You don't just spout off "well that can't be because it doesn't make any blankity-blank sense!" So while we may disagree on several issues, I respect your maturity. Now on to your post.

The problem I find with most prophecies in the Bible is that they are ambiguous. If some prophecies fail to meet the literal meaning, Christians tend to ignore it and substitute the meaning with a figurative interpretation even when the literal meaning is warranted.

Interesting. Can you give me an example?

OT prophecy was written to a Jewish audience, much of it within Hebrew poetry that was designed by Jesus own admittance not to be obvious but "veiled." This makes a great deal of it sound symbolic or figurative in english and in todays culture. However it holds no mysteries to the Jews who were accustomed to such things being written that way. It is in the context it was meant to be read that we must interpret it. Having said that, anyone can study the Bible and see that it helps interpret itself. Symbols are rampid in the Bible but are used with some what standardized meanings. For example oil is used as a symbol of holiness and for the Holy Spirit from Genesis to Revelation.

Also, It's hard for someone like me who knows that the Bible has been added to and taken away from, to accept the words written in it.

What has been added and/or taken away to your knowledge? Just so I know what to address (I'm long-winded enough, LOL!)

I think I've addressed this before. The canonized Bible includes the Old Testament, the currect state of which existed in Jesus' day and was validated by Him as God's word during His time here. A comment He made in Luke 11:51 about how the Scribes had killed every Prophet from Genesis to Zechariah (Prophets He mentioned were from the first to last book of the OT) excludes the "Apocrypha" as does it's contradictions to some of Christ's teachings. It also includes the "Gentile Writtings" or New Testament. These writtings make up first hand accounts of Christ's life and teachings and the letters of His Disciples and Apostles. As I've stated before the evidence for the authenticity of these writtings is staggering. The only incidents of "adding and taking away from" that I know of were the "heresies" that caused the accounts and letters to be canonized in the first place (aprox 47 A.D.) and the books the Roman Catholic / Catholic Church have added. While I'm not going to start discrediting that decision, I'll simply say when I refer to God's word, I'm not refering to those books. Apart from all of that no major doctrines or facts have been added, subtracted or altered through out all the various translations. Things have been stated differently from translation to translation, but not so as to add or subtract. The most credible aspect of it for me is that all of it's writtings can be compared to the most credible eye witness accounts of Christ's teachings (Gospels).

For some reason, Christians hold their Holy Book to a higher standard and somehow turn the other cheek.

I hold the word to a higher standard due to who spoke it (and/or validated it). Jesus Christ. His character, life, death and resurection... and the evidence for them speak for themselves. If there is some discrepency that Christians have "turned the other cheek" to then let's address it. I'm curious to know what it is. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

You are made to Trust "The Word" before you even know the word, according to the Bible. Blind Faith has no evidence. Essentially Faith doesn't need evidence, because after all, that's why it's called Faith.

One of the statements made in the Bible is "He has written the truth on our hearts." It's another way of saying He gave us a conscience. Nobody made me believe or accept "The Word," I have agreed and disagreed with parts of it through out my life and have learned the hard way too many times that it is in fact one of the (if not the main) ways God speaks to mankind. I can't see the wind, but I can see and feel it's affects. Still, to some degree I must accept it by faith. Following Christ is quite similar. I cannot see God, but I can see and feel the affects of His involvement in my life. Dramatic change in my character, a multitude of specific answered prayer, other's lives changed both against all odds and supernaturally. My faith isn't so blind... and while the Bible does encourage faith (Jesus told Thomas "blessed is he who believes without seeing."), it never suggests, demands or otherwise encourages "blind" faith. It couldn't and say "test (or taste) and see that the Lord is good."

Evidence to back that statement up? And from what I read Jesus has more unfulfilled then fullfilled.

What are you reading? I can suggest a few good books (volumes) of evidence as well. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

The OT prophecies have been around to read for thousands of years. The eye witness accounts of Jesus' fulfillment of those prophecies have as much evidence as Lincoln's assasination or any other historical event that depends on eye witness accounts. The colaborating evidence for the Gospel's validity is in Jewish and Roman records as well. Jesus crucifiers were around in the days those records were penned to make sure nothing was exagerated or embellished.

Well, we differ in views of Salvation. I don't believe in the Christian concept in Salvation ultimately because there was no sacrifice.

Explain "no sacrifice" please. I'm not quite sure what you are getting at.

Keep it coming, this is good stuff.

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/veryexcited.gif.c26a15f316d23068607f36ddacd7a7ab.gif

 

[Frraksurred 10+ year member]

I haven't gone to a church in over 6 years....
Galatians 1:11-12 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.

For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Just as the Lord Yah revealed to Paul what to say and teach, so has Yah revealed to me what I know. That's why it's a must that people NOT depend on pastors to teach them, they need to let Yah teach them. Through reading, prayer, and fastings.

Yahshua is Lord

I admire the fact that you have not taken some one elses word on a subject but have researched it, tested it and experienced it for yourself. Too many people take what they hear at face value and walk away misguided. The problem with relying souly on "revelation" is that there are lots of spirits out there that will mimic it. God is a god of order, and He has established a system of order through Paul in letters like the one to Timothy to promote growth and deter false teachings from evolving out of unchecked personal "revelation." That order involves the church.

I would challenge the notion you seem to have that church is not necessary (an impression I've gotten from this and previous posts). I would certainly agree that there are a lot of dead, fake, hypocritical and unequipped churches out there, but that simply means the seach is more difficult. There are a host of very Biblical, Holy Spirit filled, genuine and loving church communities out there as well. The main theme prevading the NT after the Gospels is the church and us being a part of it. Jesus went to the temple weekly, Paul wrote numerous letters to churches in different regions, as well as to church leaders like Timothy. He is found repeatedly using analogies like "shepard" or a spiritual "father" to show our need for leadership. Luke admonishes us in Acts not to "neglect the gathering of ourselves together," he then added context in 17:11 by saying the believers in Burea were to be commended because they not only listened to the teaching, but verified it against God's word to show we shouldn't take any teaching at face value. We were never designed to go it alone or be a "Lone Ranger Believer." There is also the fact the NT commands us to be using our talents and abilities in some way in and through a church. The right church is a very healthy thing. And, as you have pointed out, the wrong one can be very detrimental. Biblically speaking, the lack of one is equally as detrimental.

I prayed for help during my search for a church and God very faithfully (and supernaturally) led me to the church I've been attending for 9 years. I respect the Pastors there but I don't consider any of them infallable... they will be the first to tell you that. LOL! They are very humble and real people, they are also very sincerely seeking God's face. Being a part of that community has been a great help to me, it has also given me an outlet to help others (not that all I do is within or through the church). I can tell a difference in my focus when I've missed a week or two. It begins to slip off of Christ and on to all my selfish desires (like spending all my money on car audio instead of bills! //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/suave.gif.858fc102f7646e678ee8af7e1fbc41d1.gif ) Looking back at my extended times away from a church body, I can see compromises and how much more prone I was to misguided thinking. There was a time I hated church to, I just hadn't found the right one yet. Now it's a vital part of my walk with Christ.

 

[Frraksurred 10+ year member]

No relpies?

...or after only two day, am I just being impatient?

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif

 

[Expy2000]

I need Christ in my life like I need a case of the squirts.

 

[Frraksurred 10+ year member]

Hmmm.... let me guess, you were forced to go to church as a kid and now you want nothing to do with it...

or

You went to a very structured (cough *Catholic* cough) school were there were a lot of rules but few real answers to who God truly is or examples of His love, and now you think He's just a big kill-joy standing over you with a club waiting for you to screw up so He can "smite" you?

or

Evolution taught in schools seemed to so discredit the idea of "God" that you feel it's only for the weak who need a crutch to cope with their myriad of religious repressions?

Hitting home any where? Yes? No?

I've had my own issues in the past so I'm curious, what's your personal beef with Christ?

 

[Expy2000]

Personal beef? I dont believe he ever was on earth.