Help..........new battery and alternator and now I'm blowing fuses like crazy

[Paradigmonds]

OK, to give you guys an update.

Yesterday, I left work early and went by my local audio shop. Talked with a guy there and bought a RF 0 ga IN // 0 ga OUT inline fuse holder along with a 250 amp fuse.

Went home and installed the 0 ga power cable, with 250 amp inline fuse holder. Ran that to the fused distribution block, which has the two 60 amp fuses, then to the amps.

Also, sanded paint away and installed a 0 gauge mounted ground bracket. Ran the 0 guage ground wire through a distribution block and to the two amps.

So, here's what happened:

At first, the RF 600-4 ( running the four - 6.5" mids ) started working fine, but no sound coming from the Kicker ( which is on my tweeters ) Checked and saw that the distribution block fuse had blown going to the Kicker amp. So, checked all of my connections, grounds, over once more. Checked the 250 amp fuse at the battery and it is fine. Then, changed the 60 amp fuse in the distribution block, start her up again and Kicker amp starts smoking. Turn off and disconnect, but its probably toast.

So, I disconnect everything, go through the process of making sure that everything is connected tightly, fuses are all good, and everything is good to go.

So, I've still got my RF 600-4 hooked up and I take a RF 250a2 to hook up to my tweeters. Hook it up, start up the car, and suddenly I'm getting what sounds like bad ground loop noise. Turn it off and re-check everything again.

Start up again and nothing. No lights coming on on either amp. Checked inline and distribution block fuses and they are fine. So, I take the DMM and check voltage at the battery ( 13.1 ). Then check voltage at both amps ( 13.1 ). So, there isn't a problem with the voltage dropping.

At this point, I am really at a complete loss. I'm pretty sure I killed the Kicker amp, and I'm worried that unless the RF amps have an internal fuse that I may have wasted both of them, as well.

The cable that I was running from the Distribution block to the amps was 6 ga. I was wondering if that cable was not large enough, but neither of the amps could take anything any larger.

I'm really just lost at this point. I've hooked up dozens upon dozens of amps before, for myself and friends. I've never had problems like this before.

Obviously this all started when I put in the new alternator and new battery, but I'm not having problems with any other aspect of my electrical system. No other blown fuses anywhere, everything working fine. No electrical problems whatsoever................just apparently frying amps like a short order cook.

Any more suggestions?

Thanks for taking the time to keep up with my posts and offer guidance. I really appreciate it.

W

 

[trumpet 5,000+ posts]

Did you test the audio system after changing the power wire with the engine off or did you always having it running?

 

[gstokes]

No, he shouldn't. That's why many amplifiers come with fuses. The fuse by the battery is not for the amps. I've explained above.

IMHO he should, we all have different ways of doing things, you have yours and i have mine, we are both right and have different methods of accomplishing the same task, the fuse by the battery protects the circuit leading to the amplifier and the fuse at the amp protects the amplifier, if one amplifier has a problem the fuse for that circuit blows and leaves him another amplifier still working, it also allows him to use 2 smaller fuses instead of one big one so like i said before, we all have different ways of accomplishing the same task..

In your humble opinion he shouldn't, that's your opinion and you are welcome to it //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[fly_marlin]

IMHO he should, we all have different ways of doing things, you have yours and i have mine, we are both right and have different methods of accomplishing the same task, the fuse by the battery protects the circuit leading to the amplifier and the fuse at the amp protects the amplifier, if one amplifier has a problem the fuse for that circuit blows and leaves him another amplifier still working, it also allows him to use 2 smaller fuses instead of one big one so like i said before, we all have different ways of accomplishing the same task..In your humble opinion he shouldn't, that's your opinion and you are welcome to it //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

I'm not trying to be rude or put anyone down, but I don't want misconceptions to spread. Fuse by the battery protects the wire. Fuses on amps protect the amps. If amp has no internal fuses, you install external ones. You can use different fuse holders, different colors - that can change. The concept still remains the same and there's really no 2 ways about it. It's not subject to my opinion or yours. This is a fact.

 

[negolien]

A lot of us have multiple amps and I haven't seen one of us that's running a single run use multiple inline fuses at the battery. Not sure wtf you're talking about. Too bad the OP wasn't more careful when redoing things. I don't think going from a 0 to 6 was a big deal as long as it's a decent Distro. Did you fuse the + from the alt to the battery btw just curious? Should have done one small bit at a time instead of installing everything and hoping you fixed the issue live and learn. My 2 cents is on the ground.

 

[Paradigmonds]

Did you test the audio system after changing the power wire with the engine off or did you always having it running?

Trumpet,

After switching to the 0/1 gauge wire for the power and ground, with the vehicle turned on, I was showing 13 volts at the battery terminals and at the amplifiers. Thats what has me so confused. Everything that I've read and from what everyone is telling me, I'm getting these blown fuses due to a drop in voltage, but I'm not seeing any drop in voltage.........and I've checked multiple times.

I'm to the point that I may just take my vehicle in to the local shop and say "Here are 3 amps. I don't need you to run speaker wires. I just need these three amps hooked up and running. Feel free to change the wires/grounds or anything else as you see fit."

I really don't want to do that because I should have everything that I need, so it seems like a waste to fork out probably $200-$350 for them to simply mount a couple of amps and plug in all of the wiring I've already put in myself. However, just for their ability to troubleshoot, check the amps, and hopefully solve the problem, it may end up being worth it. I'm not to that point yet, but if I don't have it fixed by the 10th, then to the shop it goes.

 

[trumpet 5,000+ posts]

Get the alternator tested. 13V measured at the battery with the engine running is not normal.

 

[negolien]

Alts can be scary I had a buddy get an HO alt and the voltage regulator in it was bad. You had no issue going thru the firewall right used a nice grommet? Please keep us updated very interested to see what's up. Sorry to hear about it in general though ***** to have mystery issues.

 

[Paradigmonds]

Alts can be scary I had a buddy get an HO alt and the voltage regulator in it was bad. You had no issue going thru the firewall right used a nice grommet? Please keep us updated very interested to see what's up. Sorry to hear about it in general though ***** to have mystery issues.

Yes, not only did I use a grommet, but I actually rounded off the edges to make sure that they were not sharp to the touch. None of the wires are cut or damaged in any way.

Get the alternator tested. 13V measured at the battery with the engine running is not normal.

Trumpet,

What should the voltage be, measured at the battery with the engine running?

I didn't test it at the battery, but even with my crappy Sears battery that I used to have, my headunit would show 12.9 V -13.1 V while the engine was running, and now I have an XS Power D3400 battery.

I've now had 2 people say that they think it is the alternator. I guess its just my lack of knowledge, but I just can't understand how, if the rest of my electrical system is running fine, how the alternator could be faulty. Not that I haven't heard of people replacing their alternator and getting 2 or 3 of them before they got one that worked right, but they always had problems with the alternator not charging their battery. Its never been a situation where everything else is working just fine, but its just frying audio system fuses.

I'm about to the point where I want to just go to Auto Zone and buy another stock 90 amp alternator, put it in along with my better quality battery, and if it solves the shorting problem, either hope that it solves the dimming headlight problem and can handle a 2000 watt system or just deal with it.

 

[negolien]

One thing you can do is make sure you hooked up your + alt right. The alt case actually acts as it's own ground. I would think it would cause exploding battery or worse but if your slightly grounding out might cause issues also. The alt + is usually attached to a bolt make sure the ring terminal is NOT touching the case..

 

[trumpet 5,000+ posts]

The voltage at the battery must be above 12.8V with the engine idling, and the standard is 14.4V. A volt meter alone will not give you an adequate diagnosis of the alternator.

If your amplifier somehow is shorted internally that would possibly explain why the main power wire fuse blows instantly. I would still get the alternator checked to cross that off the list of possible causes before wiring up a known good amplifier.

 

[Paradigmonds]

I will check that negolien. The positive bolt on the alternator had a protective plastic boot around it, though, so I wouldn't think that the ring could be touching the alternator case, but its always another possibility that I can check.

Another thing I've been told to try:

1. check for any voltage with the negative lead on the DMM touching the negative battery terminal and the positive lead touching the case of the alternator. Supposedly, this should let me know if I have a grounding short somewhere if it shows anything but "0".

I would doubt that the amplifiers are shorted internally, as these were all amps that were tested and working fine prior to the whole mess starting.

I'm not too worried about the Kicker amp, as I think its gone already after seeing all of the smoke coming out of it, but the RF 600-4 is not giving me anything right now.........no power light, no protection light, no sound. I don't know if maybe it has an internal fuse, but I really did like that amp so I hope its not toast.

I've ordered the parts I need to correct the serpentine belt issue. I'm of the mindset right now to go ahead and just order a new alternator. There is a 136amp Duralast that I can buy from AutoZone and have it here in 2 days. Maybe the combination of the high output alternator and the significantly stronger battery are exacerbating a problem that wouldn't be showing up if one or the other more closely resembled the lower strength OEM parts. The frustrating thing about it is that everything was fine beforehand, but now I just don't know if the problem is the alternator, the battery, both, or just something as simple as a wire that is not connected tightly.

So, this weekend, I may end up just starting from scratch........put in a brand new 136 amp ( not 200 amp ) alternator, pull out every bit of wiring between the battery, alternator, and my amps, and re-wire everything, just to make sure that there are no iffy connections. If I still have the problems after that, I may just have to bite the bullet and take it somewhere and pay someone to find out what the problem is.

I'm sure that one of you guys could probably easily diagnose the problem if you were here and had an hour ( or 10 minutes ), but I really wish there was a troubleshooting guide or list of tests that I could do to narrow down and identify the problem, and then fix it.

 

[pawn man 10+ year member]

you need to put a volt meter on the batt. crank the vehicle and rev the motor. it sounds like the regulator on the new alt. is bad. I have see this before. more than likely the voltage is going over 20 volts when you rev the engine.

 

[negolien]

Yeah but wouldn't that blow the battery or the fusing if there was one between the alt + and the battery +? If you're gonna to start from scratch I'd take the alt in to oriely's and have it tested for free since you're gonna pull it anyway.

 

[Paradigmonds]

OK guys, here is my daily update.

So, yesterday, I get out the DMM and went to town checking everything that I possibly could. Here is what I got.

'

Engine turned OFF

 

Battery Positive and Negative: 12.46 Volts

Battery Negative and Positive Post on Alt: 12.46 Volts

Battery Positive and Negative Ground on Chassis: 12.46 Volts

Amplifier +/- inputs: 12.45 Volts

Positive Power cable and Ground on chassis 12.45 Volts

With Engine Running and Revved up to 3000 rpm's

 

Battery Positive and Negative: 13.96 Volts

Battery Positive to Chassis Ground 13.96 Volts

Battery Negative to Alt Positive Post 13.96 Volts

Amplifier B+ and Ground Inputs 13.95 Volts

With Engine at Idle

 

Battery Positive and Negative: 13.46 Volts

Battery Positive to Chassis Ground 13.46 Volts

Battery Negative to Alt Positive Post 13.46 Volts

Amplifier B+ and Ground Inputs 13.45 Volts

Distribution block before fuse to ground 13.45 Volts

I did a lot more tests than the ones above. Basically, I tested at every positive and negative point along my power and ground lines from the alternator to the battery, to my fuse block, to my distribution block, to my ground, and to my amplifiers. The voltage pretty much stayed the same ( within 0.02 Volts ) all along the lines, with the engine off, revved up, and idling.

Now, there is one strange thing that I found. It may be nothing, but at this time, I had two amps still hooked up.

( as a side note, I didn't have my headunit faceplate with me, but I just ran a jumper from the B+ to the remote input on my RF 600-4 and it came on and blue light lit up nicely, so I'm very happy to say that it is probably ok )

The second amp that was hooked up was one of my Punch 801S. Now, if you recall, I have a distribution block splitting from one 0 Ga cable to two 6 Ga power cables going to these amps. Now, there is a 60 Amp fuse on the side with the RF 600-4, but there is no fuse on the side with the 801S. However, when I checked the positive and negative inputs on the 801S, I kept getting about 9.4 Volts. So, I put it up on the back seat to make sure it wasn't touching metal anywhere and I removed the speaker outputs. Then I tested again on the amp, and then again with the negative lead on the amp and the positive lead on the distribution block........STILL getting 9.4 Volts. So, then I completely removed the B+ cable from the amp and I'm STILL showing 9.4 Volts on the positive and negative inputs on the amp. Is it possible that this is just from residual power still inside the capacitors in the amp? Or is this indicating something that is a problem. I wouldn't think that an amp with ONLY a ground cable going into it could show a 9.4 Volt charge in it.

Anyhow, I am going to be correcting the belt issue today, as I've ordered some parts and should get the belt tension issue corrected ASAP.

If anyone has any more suggestions on things that I can test with the DMM, let me know as I would like to do a little more troubleshooting and testing before I spring for another alternator. This 200 amp model was quite pricey, and its gonna cost me another $175 just to go get an OEM from Auto Zone or O'Reilly's.

After I fix the belt today, I'm going to get down and dirty with removing and reconnecting every single connection in the system to see if there is just a connection issue somewhere that is causing all of these problems.

Thanks for checking on my progress and for all of you guys' help.

W