FI Q in a Phase Box.

[Immacomputer 10+ year member]

Is that a particular cabbin or in all instances. Cancelation is a big issue in the automotive environment so moving stuff will usually give SPL gains. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

It has to do with the cabin but it applies to all areas. Horns need something to load off of and without it, you can lose a ton of output. While in my room at my house, the position changes where the sweet spot is. In some places, there is no output at all. Due to all the reflections of the sound waves, it's easy to get standing waves outside of the enclosure.

 

[CBFryman2 5,000+ posts]

Interesting. I keep wanting to play with a Horn but never have had the chance to get really down and dirty with one.

 

[squeak9798 5,000+ posts]

This brings back memories of the good ole P4S debates.....................

 

[rpfuror 10+ year member]

The over all effectiveness of their "Revolutionary" designes has been called into question before. However I've yet to see a customer who was completely unsatisfied so they have to be doing something right. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif
TTB has put up some awsome numbers and made some awsome vehicles. I am by no means calling them a Sham.

I haven't seen anyone that took a driver out of a pre-fab box and put it into a correctly designed ported/seal/bandpass box and complain about the gains they receive.

I still don't buy into the toxic hype or "snake oil"

 

[jimrhit 10+ year member]

How is this any different than a TL?

Is the designer here just calling it by a new name ... and playin' the patent-hype game to sell it?

 

[BlackMaxima 10+ year member]

This brings back memories of the good ole P4S debates.....................

welcome to the tread.

any input on this debate??

 

[CBFryman2 5,000+ posts]

How is this any different than a TL?
Is the designer here just calling it by a new name ... and playin' the patent-hype game to sell it?

Generally TL's immediately begin to taper behind the woofer and have no chamber. This "Phase Box" has a chamber and instead of a taper, it looks like it goes straight to 75% of the woofer's cone area.

TL's put the back wave and the front wave in phase with one another by moving the back wave 90 degrees out of phase by the time it reaches the listening area.

Hemholtz resonators work on the property of a given volume of air and a column of air that resonates using the given volume (the chamber) as a spring. This is the principal that Ported enclosures and most Bandpass enclosures work on.

This Phase Box seems to be double dipping. Hemholtz air spring (the chamber) and playing with the backwave phase (TL).

My idea is that they take normal ported box calculators and design a box that has ~75% of the woofer's Sd as the port area. They then set a tuning that they want and adjust the volume of the chamber until the port length is as long as 1/4 the wavelength that they are tuning to. They could also have a given volume and adjust the tuning until the two are equal.

If that doesn’t mean a hill of beans to you I will try a better explanation after I get back from class. For now it's off to college. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crap.gif.7f4dd41e3e9b23fbd170a1ee6f65cecc.gif

 

[Relax 10+ year member]

The Phase box doesn't look like a TL Hybrid at all. If anything it looks to be a just folded straight TL with the Driver located at 0 and 100% line length.

Check of Tom Danley's "Tower Of Power" home subwoofer- exact same concept except its huge because it is for a 15 I believe.

 

[jimrhit 10+ year member]

Generally TL's immediately begin to taper behind the woofer and have no chamber. This "Phase Box" has a chamber and instead of a taper, it looks like it goes straight to 75% of the woofer's cone area.
TL's put the back wave and the front wave in phase with one another by moving the back wave 90 degrees out of phase by the time it reaches the listening area.

Hemholtz resonators work on the property of a given volume of air and a column of air that resonates using the given volume (the chamber) as a spring. This is the principal that Ported enclosures and most Bandpass enclosures work on.

This Phase Box seems to be double dipping. Hemholtz air spring (the chamber) and playing with the backwave phase (TL).

My idea is that they take normal ported box calculators and design a box that has ~75% of the woofer's Sd as the port area. They then set a tuning that they want and adjust the volume of the chamber until the port length is as long as 1/4 the wavelength that they are tuning to. They could also have a given volume and adjust the tuning until the two are equal.

If that doesn’t mean a hill of beans to you I will try a better explanation after I get back from class. For now it's off to college. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crap.gif.7f4dd41e3e9b23fbd170a1ee6f65cecc.gif

aka a volume coupled TL. DIYers have been doing these for years.... I am just not seeing the benefit here....it needs a LOT of volume to do this. In EBS-style 12-14hz tunes, I can see this as beneficial/more space efficient, but for a 6"er @ 30hz ... its not very efficient (space wise).

 

[Megalomaniac 5,000+ posts]

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 7 (5 members and 2 guests)

Megalomaniac , Duke , jimrhit , Kenny Pollock , Toxic Tuan

am i seeing things?

 

[Toxic Tuan 10+ year member]

Hi guys,

Here's a little more insight on the box. A T-Box is not a transmission line.

In addition, for those that will argue that a true horn cannot exist in a car environment...that is corrnect...but horn properties will always be effective in any environment.

The Phase box is a composite of a horn, T-Box, and a phase alignment enclosure. This technology has yet to be seen by any other designers out there. Both Pete and I have one in our vehicles. His is on the east coast and mine is on the west coast.

Most of my customers guess that I have either (2) 10's or (2) 12's with about 1000 watts in my vehicle. I have a JL 6W0 with 75 watts on it. The box plays flat all the way down to 22 hz with ease. You're all welcome to come by and listen to it. If you'd like reputable testimonials...you can ask Shon, the owner of Realm of Excursion. http://www.realmofexcursion.com. He's personally sat in my vehicle for a full demonstration.

As of right now...the plans are not available. Only complete built enclosures are available.

Tuan

Team Toxic Bass

 

[jimrhit 10+ year member]

So how is this not a std. volume coupled TL? A design I can assure you ... a lot of other designers have seen and used....

 

[BlackMaxima 10+ year member]

Hi guys,
Here's a little more insight on the box. A T-Box is not a transmission line.

In addition, for those that will argue that a true horn cannot exist in a car environment...that is corrnect...but horn properties will always be effective in any environment.

The Phase box is a composite of a horn, T-Box, and a phase alignment enclosure. This technology has yet to be seen by any other designers out there. Both Pete and I have one in our vehicles. His is on the east coast and mine is on the west coast.

Most of my customers guess that I have either (2) 10's or (2) 12's with about 1000 watts in my vehicle. I have a JL 6W0 with 75 watts on it. The box plays flat all the way down to 22 hz with ease. You're all welcome to come by and listen to it. If you'd like reputable testimonials...you can ask Shon, the owner of Realm of Excursion. http://www.realmofexcursion.com. He's personally sat in my vehicle for a full demonstration.

As of right now...the plans are not available. Only complete built enclosures are available.

Tuan

Team Toxic Bass

this is good, we got someone from TTB

 

[80INCHES 5,000+ posts]

Once Team Toxic Bass gets the patenet and releases plans what is going to stop someone from reverse engineering it and letting out the secret. If I understand the patent process (I am no lawyer) owning a patent only stops corperations from reproducing the enclosure. What is going to stop myself from produceing my own box?
I also call BS on the ability to create directional or "listening area only" bass. I'll watch the video once I get to work (I'm at school right now). But the physics of long wave length sound I learned dictates otherwise.

Sure it can be loud and sure it can sound good. I'm not calling BS on that. I am, however, calling it snake oil. $100 'audiophile grade' cables do the same thing. The similar results can be had with $20 cables.

What it looks like to me is a ported box tuned so that the port also acts as a transmission line and is dumped infront of the woofer instead of on the same plane as the woofer. That is my geuss. A mix of Hemholtz properties and closed pipe resonace properties.

i agree

bass in non dierectional

80

 

[Duke 10+ year member]

i agreebass in non dierectional

80

Yeah, but wouldn't you also agree that there are things you can do to get gains in certain areas of the listening area? Like changing the facing around etc.