Fastest Sub??? 3 questions

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

Wow there's alot of misinformation in this post, and mostly from one person.

If you think mass affects 'woofer speed' read this: http://www.adireaudio.com/Files/WooferSpeed.pdf

Im really surprised that topic is even being debated around here anymore. I dont care what DD's advertising people say, Dan's charts and facts say otherwise (see link above).

I dont have the time to get into what Mms DOES do to affect sub performance. Plenty of info on that subject if someone wants to search.

As for power increasing a subs "reaction" times, think of it like this... An electromagnet is pushing and pulling an object, if you increase the power of it, it will be able to pull faster, harder, and stop quicker and return faster and harder. That is probably why companies utilize large magnets and lightweight cones?

Hmmm, one big flaw there. According to your theory, as we turned down our volume knob, cone control would go out the window, and distortion would increase. As we all know, that does NOT happen. Again, pls read the link above about inductance, you really dont understand the fundamentals of how a speaker operates.
A watt is a watt. Example subwoofer's cone is moving a certain distance, given a certain wattage input. Say its receiving 100 watts from a 200 watt amp. Now we replace that 200 watt amp with a 1000 watt amp, and again drive the speaker with 100 watts (and thereby give the same cone excursion). According to your theory, the bigger amp will control the cone more at 100 watts...? Or only when driven higher than the max wattage of the smaller amp in the comparison...?

Next flaw, you dont understand how BL drops as the coil leaves the gap (on traditional motor topologies). The further the coil moves out of the gap, the less BL force you have (motor force), which WILL lessen cone control and untimately hurt linear travel. This is known generally as BL distortion and accounts the majority of audible distortion created from a traditional speaker. So... adding more power is only going to increase cone excursion, which will in effect decrease BL and INCREASE distortion. Not the other way around.

Lastly, look into an amplifier's dampening factor, you are completely ignoring it.

And how is it going to sound worse at lower volumes, because with such little cone movement, there is very little inertial to deal with, the more cone movement, the more intertial and the harder it will be for the subwoofer to reproduce the signal...also known as distortion.

Again, you understanding inductance and how it affects subwoofer performance, would make having this conversation with you a whole lot easier. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif Dan Wiggins actually places a weight on the speaker cone (in the link above) and graphs the performance difference. Obviously, you will be surprised at the outcome. For god's sake, just go read it, then you'll understand that your entire theory of magnetism and moving mass are simply incorrect. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif
You should really do more reasearch on speaker designs, how they operate and how their design affects performance before you hand out advice about those subjects. No offense intended, its simply the truth.

Have a nice night.

 

[elementxero 10+ year member]

Wow there's alot of misinformation in this post, and mostly from one person.
If you think mass affects 'woofer speed' read this: http://www.adireaudio.com/Files/WooferSpeed.pdf

Im really surprised that topic is even being debated around here anymore. I dont care what DD's advertising people say, Dan's charts and facts say otherwise (see link above).

I dont have the time to get into what Mms DOES do to affect sub performance. Plenty of info on that subject if someone wants to search.

Hmmm, one big flaw there. According to your theory, as we turned down our volume knob, cone control would go out the window, and distortion would increase. As we all know, that does NOT happen. Again, pls read the link above about inductance, you really dont understand the fundamentals of how a speaker operates.

A watt is a watt. Example subwoofer's cone is moving a certain distance, given a certain wattage input. Say its receiving 100 watts from a 200 watt amp. Now we replace that 200 watt amp with a 1000 watt amp, and again drive the speaker with 200 watts (and thereby give the same cone excursion). According to your theory, the bigger amp will control the cone more at 200 watts...? Or only when driven higher than the max wattage of the smaller amp in the comparison...?

Next flaw, you dont understand how BL drops as the coil leaves the gap (on traditional motor topologies). The further the coil moves out of the gap, the less BL force you have (motor force), which WILL lessen cone control and untimately hurt linear travel. This is known generally as BL distortion and accounts the majority of audible distortion created from a traditional speaker. So... adding more power is only going to increase cone excursion, which will in effect decrease BL and INCREASE distortion. Not the other way around.

Lastly, look into an amplifier's dampening factor, you are completely ignoring it.

Again, you understanding inductance and how it affects subwoofer performance, would make having this conversation with you a whole lot easier. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif Dan Wiggins actually places a weight on the speaker cone (in the link above) and graphs the performance difference. Obviously, you will be surprised at the outcome. For god's sake, just go read it, then you'll understand that your entire theory of magnetism and moving mass are simply incorrect. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

You should really do more reasearch on speaker designs, how they operate and how their design affects performance before you hand out advice about those subjects. No offense intended, its simply the truth.

Have a nice night.

TY! Pretty much the counter information to the assumptions I had made that I was looking for....

 

[Hintzyboy 5,000+ posts]

"The biggest and fastest submarines are nuclear-powered submarines. The Russians built some submarines they call Typhoons. These are the fastest of all the nuclear-powered submarines. They can go faster then 40 knots! (That's about 46 miles per hour.)"
http://www.bsu.edu/web/jmkocher/submarine.htm#biggest%20and%20fastest

Gotta be the Alfa.

This thing will literally blow other subs out of the water. Watch out Fi.

I don't think we're talking about marine audio, lol.

 

[TunedPerfect 10+ year member]

Thanks Audioholic, boy have I been very misinformed. Is that why Orion used to have the dual gap technology to lessen the BL loss during excursion? And I didnt realize ms was just the mass of the cone, while mms was the ms plus the driver's radiation mass. What Adire Audio explained makes perfect sense and they could show most manufacturers out there a thing or two. By the way, my 15 has an Le of 1.35mH, is that good? I am having a hard time finding those parameters listed by companies.