Enclosure Prototyping *Pics*

[tommyk90 5,000+ posts]

Stage A: EnclosureStage B: Environment (vehicle)

I do have many data for all sorts of vehicles. The environment is the vehicle's resonant frequency and cabin size and orientation. This is a completely different part of the design stage. As mentioned above, my testings of the pito tubes only reflects the internals.

The box internal flow has NOTHING to do with the vehicle (environment): Fluid Dynamics 101 - Flow in a Pipe. A more laminar flow profile will result in a better output...period. This is within the capabilities of the enclosure. A turbulent flow with major head loss will result in a low output no matter what environment it is in. This is 2 entirely different stages.

You fail to understand my tests and make huge assumptions without knowing any details. And you certainly underestimate my capabilities.

Tuan

If you're referring to SPL, yes you are correct. However, if you're referring to Sound Quality...then you are wrong...because the testings are NOT "null and void." Either way, you don't know the variables or constraints of the design...so how can you critique?
Tuan

That is not true at all. How an enclosure will flow air in the enclosure is dependent on the vehicle itself as well as the box.

Dropping an enclosure into a trunk effectively uses the trunk as another enclosure, basically making a 6th order bandpass of sorts. How the trunk is designed, the dimensions, airflow around the box, and so forth, can determine how/how much air can flow in and out of the box.

Pressure spots, excursion, port loading, etc. can all occur on different levels depending on the final install. The box is not the only factor here. Depending on the length of the port, it's orientation, and WHERE that port fires in to (side walls, how close, etc.), the whole performance of the box can drastically change.

If you don't understand this, then I can't really help you any more.

Though yes, if you can make airflow inside the box as smooth and non-turbulent as possible there is the potential for gains, you won't know how much, if any at all, will be perceived in the actual environment. You can spend hours testing the aerodynamics of an enclosure only to not notice any type of gain (whether it be output or SQ) once the box is actually used.

Regardless, all your fancy tests do what, MAYBE give marginal gains in a realistic environment? Couldn't your time be better spent? I understand that you are passionate about the hobby, but I feel that you are wasting your time by doing such complicated tests when in reality you have no idea how each box will perform in each type (and model, not all trunk cars will perform the same) of vehicle.

In the picture you posted, I see absolutely nothing that would dictate your enclosures somehow produce a smoother airflow than any other slot ported box. In a few instances I can see how some of your boxes can cause uneven pressure spots due to sub and port end positioning.

Like I said before, if you're trying to win over people with experience and testing, then you're gonna have to do a little better than just SAYING you're doing these tests. We need results.

 

[Toxic Tuan 10+ year member]

My god do u have a life? this is a hobby.. we are not trying to launch the space shuttle... for u to take all this time and supposely pressure and flow test all these enclosure ..just confirms how many people in life really dont like u lol

If you attack me for lying. Now you're attacking me on a personal level. It's obvious you're a box builder that makes money on forum members and these enclosures will threaten your business???

No Mobeious, for me...I take my time because I have pride in what I do. I always try to do the best of my abilities with everything, not just car audio. This is the same reason why I won the 2006 World finals in DBDRAG the first year I ever competed. The only reason why I competed in 2006 was because a person like you criticized and challenged me in 2005. Even though I had very little experience in the DBDRAG competition world, I spent a lot of time testing to catch up. I have built more boxes that you can ever imagine and you are ignorantly dismissing my experience.

Tuan

 

[tommyk90 5,000+ posts]

If you attack me for lying. Now you're attacking me on a personal level. It's obvious you're a box builder that makes money on forum members and these enclosures will threaten your business???
No Mobeious, for me...I take my time because I have pride in what I do. I always try to do the best of my abilities with everything, not just car audio. This is the same reason why I won the 2006 World finals in DBDRAG the first year I ever competed. The only reason why I competed in 2006 was because a person like you criticized and challenged me in 2005. Even though I had very little experience in the DBDRAG competition world, I spent a lot of time testing to catch up. I have built more boxes that you can ever imagine and you are ignorantly dismissing my experience.

Tuan

You used the same boxes that terry brocks used in 2005. Only difference is you had more power (2 goliaths versus his 2 cyclops) and a deadened CRX which probably netted you at least a 1 dB gain. Not to mention a batcap versus terry who used a normal G31 battery in 2005.

Had he deadened his crx and used the same power as you, you wouldn't be a champion.

Don't try and ******** me. I was at db drag finals in 2005 and 2006 and extensively saw both installs.

While I commend you on being a world champ in your first year competing, don't try and act like you didn't get help from others.

 

[Toxic Tuan 10+ year member]

That is not true at all. How an enclosure will flow air in the enclosure is dependent on the vehicle itself as well as the box.
Dropping an enclosure into a trunk effectively uses the trunk as another enclosure, basically making a 6th order bandpass of sorts. How the trunk is designed, the dimensions, airflow around the box, and so forth, can determine how/how much air can flow in and out of the box.

Pressure spots, excursion, port loading, etc. can all occur on different levels depending on the final install. The box is not the only factor here. Depending on the length of the port, it's orientation, and WHERE that port fires in to (side walls, how close, etc.), the whole performance of the box can drastically change.

If you don't understand this, then I can't really help you any more.

Regardless, all your fancy tests do what, MAYBE give marginal gains in a realistic environment? Couldn't your time be better spent? I understand that you are passionate about the hobby, but I feel that you are wasting your time by doing such complicated tests when in reality you have no idea how each box will perform in each type (and model, not all trunk cars will perform the same) of vehicle

Tommy, first off...I'm not looking for your help. I have companies paying me to design their enclosures because of my knowledge. This has been working for me for years. If you're saying that no theories works in a car environment, then you might as well throw away all design softwares. And secondly you're assuming that no 2 vehicles are remotely close to another. This is purely not true. There are many factors and constraints that still holds.

My tests are very valid and serves as useful data. In 2003, I designed a dual 10" rear horn enclosure with high compression. This was close field corner loaded enclosure. I knew the compression was high, but I could never have imaged it be that high. Were the compression was built, the one subwoofer would rip itself apart. The cone and surround would be completely torn. I measured the compression and recorded the data. After a few tests, I found the maximum allowable compression. This help me determined the appropriate horn choke ratio. Without these tests, this would never be possible.

Some of what you're saying is true, but once again...you don't understand the constraints. Have you ever been asked to design an enclosure that will work well, to the best capability, for all vehicles...if not most? That is one of the constraints.

Tommy, you're wasting your time telling me things I already know and you're uselessly arguing with me without knowing the intents of the designs. I'm just going to end it right there.

Tuan

 

[tommyk90 5,000+ posts]

Tommy, first off...I'm not looking for your help. I have companies paying me to design their enclosures because of my knowledge. This has been working for me for years. If you're saying that no theories works in a car environment, then you might as well throw away all design softwares. And secondly you're assuming that no 2 vehicles are remotely close to another. This is purely not true. There are many factors and constraints that still holds.
My tests are very valid and serves as useful data. In 2003, I designed a dual 10" rear horn enclosure with high compression. This was close field corner loaded enclosure. I knew the compression was high, but I could never have imaged it be that high. Were the compression was built, the one subwoofer would rip itself apart. The cone and surround would be completely torn. I measured the compression and recorded the data. After a few tests, I found the maximum allowable compression. This help me determined the appropriate horn choke ratio. Without these tests, this would never be possible.

Some of what you're saying is true, but once again...you don't understand the constraints. Have you ever been asked to design an enclosure that will work well, to the best capability, for all vehicles...if not most? That is one of the constraints.

Tommy, you're wasting your time telling me things I already know and you're uselessly arguing with me without knowing the intents of the designs. I'm just going to end it right there.

Tuan

I know you're not looking for my help. That's not the point I'm trying to make.

Great, you have companies you build boxes for. Whoopdy doo.

All I'm asking for is for you to POST RESULTS. Not TALK about results. You say you do these tests to determine the best airflow, where are the results? I'm not asking you to post pictures, all I want is some evidence that you actually DO these tests versus just talking about them.

Like I said, in the picture you posted on the first page, absolutely NOTHING stands out as something different or exceptional in terms of design. Bent port. Great. Angles. Great. Subs mounted in the middle of the baffle (middle of the port end to side wall). Great.

Tell me again how these boxes are "optimized"? Tell me again how somebody building a standard ported box (which would look strickingly similar to your "optimized" boxes) won't get the same results as one of your boxes?

You don't have to answer me. I think I've made my point abundantly clear.

 

[mobeious 10+ year member]

If you attack me for lying. Now you're attacking me on a personal level. It's obvious you're a box builder that makes money on forum members and these enclosures will threaten your business???
No Mobeious, for me...I take my time because I have pride in what I do. I always try to do the best of my abilities with everything, not just car audio. This is the same reason why I won the 2006 World finals in DBDRAG the first year I ever competed. The only reason why I competed in 2006 was because a person like you criticized and challenged me in 2005. Even though I had very little experience in the DBDRAG competition world, I spent a lot of time testing to catch up. I have built more boxes that you can ever imagine and you are ignorantly dismissing my experience.

Tuan

Wow u competed way back in 2006.... and havent done **** since..... i have also had companies come to me asking to prototype some enclosure models for there subs... but u dont see me coming on here and prasing about it .. why cause its not that big of a deal ..... hell anyone can design a proper enclosure with a little math skill ......ur just overkillig everything to make it seem u take everything to the next level .. and really the stuff u do doesnt really take anything into effect.. .... these boxes will not take any business away from me . i have my clinets that will always come back to me ... i keep busy enough

 

[Toxic Tuan 10+ year member]

You used the same boxes that terry brocks used in 2005. Only difference is you had more power (2 goliaths versus his 2 cyclops) and a deadened CRX which probably netted you at least a 1 dB gain. Not to mention a batcap versus terry who used a normal G31 battery in 2005.
Had he deadened his crx and used the same power as you, you wouldn't be a champion.

Don't try and ******** me. I was at db drag finals in 2005 and 2006 and extensively saw both installs.

While I commend you on being a world champ in your first year competing, don't try and act like you didn't get help from others.

First off, I had never seen Terry Brock's boxes...ever. Secondly, they're not the same boxes. They're similar, but not identical. You may have seen the boxes, but I was not at finals in 05 to have copied his box. I spent numerous hours to design and build boxes that finally gave better numbers. Also, I did not take my best box to world finals. I have over 12 enclosures that was built. I started with 2 4" aeros, then went to 3 4" aeros, and then went to a single 6" aero. I was working on a 8" aero, but never had the time to complete it. I have an entire book of recorded data of results showing every single burp I've ever made recording my volume, voltage, and every change I made.

I had Cyclops. I did not have Goliaths. This shows how very little you know and all you base your facts on are ASSUMPTIONS!

NSB90 vs the DDZ batter did the exact same number on a burp. The DDZ has more capacity but did not get any louder.

Who did I get help from? I tried asking a couple of people for help, but every Street Class competitor kept things to themselves. They've spent numerous hours testing, I'm sure they didn't want to give up their secrets. One thing that I did different is damplifying. Every competitor told me not to use damplifier, however, I had to test it myself. The results were incredible. I believe I was one of the only that use damplifer in street class at 06 finals.

With all your negative comments, I now know what kind of person you are.

Tuan

 

[RAM_Designs 5,000+ posts]

You used the same boxes that terry brocks used in 2005. Only difference is you had more power (2 goliaths versus his 2 cyclops) and a deadened CRX which probably netted you at least a 1 dB gain. Not to mention a batcap versus terry who used a normal G31 battery in 2005.
Had he deadened his crx and used the same power as you, you wouldn't be a champion.

Don't try and ******** me. I was at db drag finals in 2005 and 2006 and extensively saw both installs.

While I commend you on being a world champ in your first year competing, don't try and act like you didn't get help from others.

Oh snap!

 

[Toxic Tuan 10+ year member]

Wow u competed way back in 2006.... and havent done **** since..... i have also had companies come to me asking to prototype some enclosure models for there subs... but u dont see me coming on here and prasing about it .. why cause its not that big of a deal ..... hell anyone can design a proper enclosure with a little math skill ......ur just overkillig everything to make it seem u take everything to the next level .. and really the stuff u do doesnt really take anything into effect.. .... these boxes will not take any business away from me . i have my clinets that will always come back to me ... i keep busy enough

And you're right, anybody can design an enclosure with a little math skills...

Tuan

 

[sobe3yourself. 10+ year member]

boxes look niiiiiiiice! any 13s?

 

[mobeious 10+ year member]

just curious to see the bed in the port without the kerf cutting

 

[SlainNothing 10+ year member]

looks like standard ported boxes. with some standard rules applied.

bunch of junk i have to agree with tommyk and mobeious

 

[tommyk90 5,000+ posts]

First off, I had never seen Terry Brock's boxes...ever. Secondly, they're not the same boxes. They're similar, but not identical. You may have seen the boxes, but I was not at finals in 05 to have copied his box. I spent numerous hours to design and build boxes that finally gave better numbers. Also, I did not take my best box to world finals. I have over 12 enclosures that was built. I started with 2 4" aeros, then went to 3 4" aeros, and then went to a single 6" aero. I was working on a 8" aero, but never had the time to complete it. I have an entire book of recorded data of results showing every single burp I've ever made recording my volume, voltage, and every change I made.
I had Cyclops. I did not have Goliaths. This shows how very little you know and all you base your facts on are ASSUMPTIONS!

NSB90 vs the DDZ batter did the exact same number on a burp. The DDZ has more capacity but did not get any louder.

Who did I get help from? I tried asking a couple of people for help, but every Street Class competitor kept things to themselves. They've spent numerous hours testing, I'm sure they didn't want to give up their secrets. One thing that I did different is damplifying. Every competitor told me not to use damplifier, however, I had to test it myself. The results were incredible. I believe I was one of the only that use damplifer in street class at 06 finals.

With all your negative comments, I now know what kind of person you are.

Tuan

Just because you weren't at finals doesn't mean you couldn't copy his box to the exact dimensions.

Want proof?

Terry brock's 2005 box

Your 2006 box

Oh hey! Look at that! Looks pretty darn identical to me, even down to the sub model.

You're full of ****. Period. Terry tested his car after 2006 finals because of the score you did with the same equipment (sorry, got the amps wrong). After he deadened (like your car was), he gained over a dB (which would have meant that you lost)

If you didn't gain with a DD battery over an NSB, then there's not much I can say about that. Mike Hughes did a 156.5 last year with a nsb2700, which is significantly weaker than either an NSB90 or one of the batcap batteries.

Oh no! You know what kind of person I am? Why? Because I don't believe all the ******** you're throwing around? Give me a break. Though I guess I'm not the one you need to prove anything to since I won't ever buy one of your (probably) overpriced and overhyped boxes. And the people that will buy them have absolutely no idea what you're talking about, so I'm sure they'll just take your word for it.

 

[Toxic Tuan 10+ year member]

just curious to see the bed in the port without the kerf cutting

If you played nice, then I would show you, but with all your attacks...I'm not so sure I want to share.

Tuan

 

[bumpin buick 5,000+ posts]

I just gotta say cause I had a DD Z 2750B and now have a NSB90, I lost about .5 on my burps, obviously a huge difference in your setup to mine but I had a noticeable amount of change in the cranking amps between the batts, just throwing my two cents out.

Sounds like Street A should be re-visited tuan?