Did this poor install lead to my speakers blowing??

[wew lad 5,000+ posts]

Why do I, a non-professional car audio installer, have to take an expert's product to them to tell them it is bad? Maybe all the people who say "JL Audio is crap" are right? Maybe 8" speakers aren't much better than 6.5"? How am I supposed to know, I'm not the "expert"? What is wrong with this world when I'm arguing about an expert's craft with an "expert"? I suppose that makes them NOT AN EXPERT, or it makes me a GENIUS!

did you miss the part about taking it up with the people who installed it instead of people on forums telling you the answer?

 

[ciaonzo 5,000+ posts]

I feel we're arguing a chicken and the eggs scenario here.
The crappy (yet supposedly custom awesome expensive expert correct) install caused extremely low performance from the speaker, which could only possibly be fixed with tuning (if the install is correct as paid for) and when tuning reached the end of it's possible spectrum the speaker blew. The speaker would NEVER play correctly no matter if GOD tuned the system, because the install was fatally flawed.

Fiddle faddle.
That install did not blow those drivers. The limitations on your understanding of how to apply an effective amount of improvement with the tools available to you is what ultimately led to the demise of those shitty drivers.

Something that can play infinite baffle usually has a low compliance. This means it would not have been bothered by the small enclosure. This, plus the fact that it wasn't playing anything much below 80hz, means that you did something awfully strange to put it into thermal failure.

 

---------- Post added at 08:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:22 PM ----------

 

Why do I, a non-professional car audio installer, have to take an expert's product to them to tell them it is bad? Maybe all the people who say "JL Audio is crap" are right? Maybe 8" speakers aren't much better than 6.5"? How am I supposed to know, I'm not the "expert"? What is wrong with this world when I'm arguing about an expert's craft with an "expert"? I suppose that makes them NOT AN EXPERT, or it makes me a GENIUS!

So you're saying you should have kept the fiddling to a minimum...

 

[ciaonzo 5,000+ posts]

You can say it all you want.
But my speakers aren't blown.

Approved.

 

[Ijcobra 10+ year member]

Fiddle faddle.
That install did not blow those drivers. The limitations on your understanding of how to apply an effective amount of improvement with the tools available to you is what ultimately led to the demise of those shitty drivers.

Something that can play infinite baffle usually has a low compliance. This means it would not have been bothered by the small enclosure. This, plus the fact that it wasn't playing anything much below 80hz, means that you did something awfully strange to put it into thermal failure.

 

---------- Post added at 08:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:22 PM ----------

 

So you're saying you should have kept the fiddling to a minimum...

I would love to hear how you think I should have tuned these speakers to make them sound great, since the install is obviously fine. Is it is the time alignment? I measured, adjusted, tried by ear, used a spectrum analyzer. EQ? Pointless at this point so FLAT. I tried. Midbass had huge holes at varying freqs that could not be corrected no matter how much EQ was shaped. Should we set gains again? 0db input this time, to be super ELiTiST? Did that. It was completely underwhelming like that method always is. Add some gain overlap? Mild increase in volume but still crappy uneven spectrum. Change crossover slopes, types (I tried them all from Linkwitz–Riley to Bessel to Butterworth at every slope available 12db to 48db, inverting this and that speaker in the system. Probably spent 100 hours on it in total. Eventually that much fracking around yes it will eventually be too much for the speaker and now I get scratchy sounds during acoustic passages.

But almost none of that would have been necessary if the install was correct. I'm furious now because I am remembering all the HOURS and HOURS wasted futilely trying to tune this thing!

 

[ciaonzo 5,000+ posts]

I would love to hear how you think I should have tuned these speakers to make them sound great, since the install is obviously fine. Is it is the time alignment? I measured, adjusted, tried by ear, used a spectrum analyzer. EQ? Pointless at this point so FLAT. I tried. Midbass had huge holes at varying freqs that could not be corrected no matter how much EQ was shaped. Should we set gains again? 0db input this time, to be super ELiTiST? Did that. It was completely underwhelming like that method always is. Add some gain overlap? Mild increase in volume but still crappy uneven spectrum. Change crossover slopes, types (I tried them all from Linkwitz–Riley to Bessel to Butterworth at every slope available 12db to 48db, inverting this and that speaker in the system. Probably spent 100 hours on it in total. Eventually that much fracking around yes it will eventually be too much for the speaker and now I get scratchy sounds during acoustic passages.
But almost none of that would have been necessary if the install was correct. I'm furious now because I am remembering all the HOURS and HOURS wasted futilely trying to tune this thing!

It sounds like the fucktard that installed your shit had no idea what he was doing, and you didn't improve matters at all. Sounds like your install was much more complicated than it needed to be, and it's like all JL. I can't tell you how to fix it, not knowing what they did to get it wrong. I can't tell you how to fix it because you're a stubborn shit. So I'm not going to try. I'm just going to drop this link to let you hear how my smaller midbass drivers are sounding much better than yours.
http://www.caraudio.com/forums/speakers/595098-about-exodus-anarchy.html

 

[Ijcobra 10+ year member]

It sounds like the fucktard that installed your shit had no idea what he was doing, and you didn't improve matters at all. Sounds like your install was much more complicated than it needed to be, and it's like all JL. I can't tell you how to fix it, not knowing what they did to get it wrong. I can't tell you how to fix it because you're a stubborn shit. So I'm not going to try. I'm just going to drop this link to let you hear how my smaller midbass drivers are sounding much better than yours.
http://www.caraudio.com/forums/speakers/595098-about-exodus-anarchy.html

I explained the install problem in post #1 and even included some helpful pics.

 

[ciaonzo 5,000+ posts]

I explained the install problem in post #1 and even included some helpful pics.

Broham. I read your first post and I want that time back. That is not how I would have done that install but it is NOT the reason your are currently unable to enjoy midbass.
You got that thing that the women got. It's like their ears shut off when they talk. Stop talking. Listen to the rest of us who have working midbass.

The thingy and stuff behind your driver probably did have some character affect on the sound, but the simple fact is that it did not cause driver failure. You did!

 

[Boomin_tahoe 5,000+ posts]

Well you should have built your speaker enclosures with at least 1 side made of Dynamat or some other completely non-rigid material. Then we can see how your best/better/whatever speakers perform.

Didn't need to...pretty much drop ins plug n play //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/fyi.gif.9f1f679348da7204ce960cfc74bca8e0.gif

 

[Ijcobra 10+ year member]

Personally I would set the gain with the head unit at 35. It will give you more volume play. As far as gain overlap until you figure out what is causing what I would do between -3 and -5 DB. .

If I set my gains at 35 (37 begins clipping/40 max) it will perhaps sound good for Dubstep but The Doors and everything from 1989 and earlier will be too quiet. 35 only leaves 2 clicks to 37; not much headroom. I've done this already. I found setting gains at 30 allow for enough adjustment when listening to low level recordings. Just gotta be careful if on shuffle and the next song is high energy! This is why setting gains by voltage and using multimeters is pointless. It would work if everything was recorded at the same level (shame on the recording industry for not creating and enforcing a standard recording/playback level decades ago).

 

[Boomin_tahoe 5,000+ posts]

then you should of taken that up with the experts and argued with them instead of complaining to people on the forum who gave you the answer to why your speakers blew.

Right!! Because bitching about it on this forum is much easier than being a man and directly fess up the problem he caused to begin with, not the shop.

Why do I, a non-professional car audio installer, have to take an expert's product to them to tell them it is bad? Maybe all the people who say "JL Audio is crap" are right? Maybe 8" speakers aren't much better than 6.5"? How am I supposed to know, I'm not the "expert"? What is wrong with this world when I'm arguing about an expert's craft with an "expert"? I suppose that makes them NOT AN EXPERT, or it makes me a GENIUS!

Another reason I do my own installs.....it doesn't take profession to install a simple speaker, rather skilled and doing it right the 1st time. Does that make me a professional? No. Am I certified? No. Do I need to be to install my own speakers, subs, amps, Hu's, etc into my own vehicle? No. I do it because I know how based on practice and experience.

 

[Boomin_tahoe 5,000+ posts]

Where's @audioholic when we need him lol

Put this OP to shame...

 

[Ijcobra 10+ year member]

Broham. I read your first post and I want that time back. That is not how I would have done that install but it is NOT the reason your are currently unable to enjoy midbass.
You got that thing that the women got. It's like their ears shut off when they talk. Stop talking. Listen to the rest of us who have working midbass.

The thingy and stuff behind your driver probably did have some character affect on the sound, but the simple fact is that it did not cause driver failure. You did!

If my Midbass (or anything else) is crap then I want it to break!

If I didn't blow my Midbass I would have never discovered the real reason they underwhealm.

 

[hispls 5,000+ posts]

ZR800-CW - Car Audio - Evolution® - ZR - Mid-Bass Driver - JL Audio

IMO you're lucky that they'll even repair them for 100$. If you look at the JL website over 125W voids the warranty.

This is why we follow instructions and use our equipment within its intended limits.

 

[Ijcobra 10+ year member]

I

Right!! Because bitching about it on this forum is much easier than being a man and directly fess up the problem he caused to begin with, not the shop.

Another reason I do my own installs.....it doesn't take profession to install a simple speaker, rather skilled and doing it right the 1st time. Does that make me a professional? No. Am I certified? No. Do I need to be to install my own speakers, subs, amps, Hu's, etc into my own vehicle? No. I do it because I know how based on practice and experience.

Trust me, I will bring this and more up with the installers when my repaired speakers arrive and it's time for install. I have written correspondence from JL saying the install was insufficient.

Practice and experience. Plus time savings. Aren't these the reasons people seek the services of every business ever? I don't re-roof my own house, or flush my own transmission, or grow my own beef, etc. Could I? Sure, maybe, but I have other more pressing obligations. And a first timer is always going to be worse than someone who has done something a lot (a pro); unless the pro is being evil or is retarded.

 

[ciaonzo 5,000+ posts]

If my Midbass (or anything else) is crap then I want it to break!
If I didn't blow my Midbass I would have never discovered the real reason they underwhealm.

Now you have to change your fancy shmancy sig. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crap.gif.7f4dd41e3e9b23fbd170a1ee6f65cecc.gif